Lightweight vs full power eMTB - Anyone experienced with both?

DogRanger

DogRanger

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My first ebike is a 2021 Giant Trance E. I do love it with its 625Wh battery and 80Nm of available torque.
Then I added an E road bike, the Specialized Creo SL with a 320Wh battery and 250Nm of power. I also love it. A lot. Also, it's about half the weight of the eMTB.

So now I'm thinking about swapping the Trance for a lighter weight eMTB. I test rode a Trek Fuel EXe, the most basic version, and just pedaling around the parking lot I really REALLY liked how quiet it is. The power seemed adequate and certainly felt spot-on with power application.
I almost never use the highest level of power with my Trance. If I'm riding alone I virtually never go past the second assist level of the five available.
My biggest concern is range. I like long rides and live in an area with steep hills.

I would also consider a Specialized Turbo Levo SL because I have the extended battery for my Creo and with that installed never have the slightest range anxiety. That battery would work with a Levo (new cord required). With the road bike I usually leave the battery home and never worry about rides under 40 miles and 2,500'.

My concern is when I ride with my eMTB buddies they tend to go pretty fast and although I pedal hard and use less battery than they do I still use much more than when I ride alone. (When by myself I'm happy to climb slowly, conserve power and enjoy the ride and scenery.) On the Trance I've done 50 miles with 4,000' of climbing with more than 20% battery remaining. Riding with my eMTB friends a 25-mile, 3,000' ride will easily use that much.

That wonderful, powerful Trance is, however, big and heavy. It's difficult to get into my car and I have trouble with tight switchbacks due to the long wheelbase. This is why I'm thinking about a lighter weight eMTB.

So my question is: Has anyone spent much time on both types of bikes? And what kind of differences did you experience in range?

I love the quiet of the Trek but not only do I already have the extra battery for a Specialized, I also like my Specialized dealer, which is pretty nearby. Trek offers an extended battery but I've never seen one and I'm guessing the price is not inconsequential.
 
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Horses for courses I’m afraid. Owning both you have to judge what group/ amount of climbing and speed you’re going to be travelling at to pick your stead. Your Battery capacity needed is simply a formula of energy needed to lift a weight up X height at X speed.

My own use and bear in mind that my routes are typically 750m of climb in 50km of travel over 2 hours, are that if you have analogues in the group, lightweight. Travelling on your own wanting to EMtb and get fitter, lightweight. Travelling with other full fat bikes, full fat after all you can lower the amount of assist to match less physically fit riders. On your lightweight you will be the slowest rider in a full fat group.

From experience you will need the additional battery ( Fazua I have is simply a battery change ) or the add on battery pack as for some reason I always seem to end up using 450Wh, I guess that’s down to what average speed I ride at.
 
DogRanger said:
So my question is: Has anyone spent much time on both types of bikes? And what kind of differences did you experience in range?
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I have an orbea wild FS (bosch gen 4 motor + 625wh battery) and a trek fuel exe.

There is no way I can keep up with friends on other full fat bikes if I am riding the trek - assuming they are in turbo and working hard , even if the trek is in max mode all the time.

If I were riding in max mode all the time then the trek battery is finished in ~12 miles and 2200 feet of climb, whereas the orbea in turbo is probably good for 20 miles ,3500 feet (maybe a bit more).

The two types of bike are not really comparable, they are different bikes for different scenarios.

If you ride on your own or with people on normal bikes or other lower power ebikes, then a lower power ebike is fine, but if you're riding with full power ebikes, then either they need to ride slower or you need to be hugely fitter than they are - like your legs need to able to produce 300w more than their legs.
 
I'd love to keep the Trance and add a lightweight but there are reasons that can't happen. Since I don't use most of my assist on a heavy bike and still keep up with my eMTB friends I'm sure a 50Nm lightweight would keep me in the game. Range is the concern, though. I probably need to hold out for just one more generation. And maybe by then I'll figure out a way to keep two eMTBs.
Art Bike GIF by Electric Cyclery


The idea of selling the Creo is an absolute no. It's my favorite bike and I can't keep up with a lot analog road buddies without it. (I'm an old guy!)
 
I have both; a Kenevo and an Orbea rise. I have a slightly different take to most views on this matter, which concentrate on how fast one can go uphill/how hard one has to work. I actually enjoy riding both bikes and bought the Rise to compliment the Kenevo rather than replace it. I tend to ride my Rise in boost most of the time, whether on my own or with others. It’s not usually a problem with those on full fat bikes as they tend to ride most of the time in sport (to conserve battery) so we’re about the same speed. If they have to wait a couple of minutes after a long climb that’s no big deal. More important is not having the same range as people one rides with. To run out of battery when they are still going strong is a right pain, but on my Rise with its supplementary battery that’s not going to happen. So, why keep/ride the Kenevo? One, because using turbo is great fun and two, because it’s a beast downhill (I’ve got the 2018 model) with 180mm travel and so if I’m going to do a really steep/technical ride I’ll take the Kenevo, as long as the ride is within its 500kw battery range. I’ve done over 5000k on my Kenevo and it’s like an old friend. It looks after me on the steep stuff and I know exactly of what we’re capable of. It’s completely predictable and faithful.
 
DogRanger said:
I'd love to keep the Trance and add a lightweight but there are reasons that can't happen. Since I don't use most of my assist on a heavy bike and still keep up with my eMTB friends I'm sure a 50Nm lightweight would keep me in the game. Range is the concern, though. I probably need to hold out for just one more generation. And maybe by then I'll figure out a way to keep two eMTBs.
Art Bike GIF by Electric Cyclery


The idea of selling the Creo is an absolute no. It's my favorite bike and I can't keep up with a lot analog road buddies without it. (I'm an old guy!)
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What if u get older ? Then ur gonna need the fat power . 🔋 just sell your wifes jewellery.
 
I have the current gen Levo and Kenevo SL and shared my experience here in posts #4, 20, and 22: Other - Levo Expert vs Kenevo SL Expert

Comparing the Levo vs KSL with range extender, I'm pretty much getting the same range when comparing the same modes (Eco vs Eco, Trail vs Trail, Turbo vs Turbo). However, each power mode on the Levo feels about 1.5 steps up from the corresponding mode on the KSL - i.e. Levo Eco feels somewhere between KSL Trail and Turbo, and Levo Trail feels a bit more powerful than KSL Turbo.

If you're comparing range between the two bikes for the same amount of assist, the Levo is getting about 1.5x the range of the KSL with range extender, which of course makes sense, since we're talking 700Wh vs 480Wh.
 
It's a fairly known fact that the Trek Fuel eXE will have a tough time keeping up with full eBikes. If they go full power, the Fuel eXE will be left behind. To keep up with them when they are in med or low setting, the Trek TQ will need to be near or at max setting, which will deplete the battery quickly. The accessory battery will be a needed in this case, because it simply does not have the battery reserve of the bigger bikes. Thats how they kepted the weight down. I'm guessing the cost of the accessory battery will drop as more bikes with TQ motors become available, as with more options. Trek also has a 30 day full refund if your not sure to commit and want to test if you can keep up with your ebike buddies. For more information check out the Fuel eXE Meagathread
 
Definitely try the lightweight on an extended uphill climb before you make a decision. I love my SL but it feels like the motor gradually ramps down its output in extended uphill climbs. Recalibration has helped with this, but from my perspective it’s still lacking on uphill power. It’s really my only complaint, otherwise it’s a tremendous bike with plenty of power (for me) in all other conditions.
 
maynard said:
What if u get older ? Then ur gonna need the fat power .
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What it I don't? Problem solved 100%!

patdam said:
interesting comparison on efficiencies/autonomie of light and "classic"E-MTB
www.bike-magazin.de

Reichweite von E-Bike Motoren im Test: So hoch klettern Light-Antriebe

Light E-MTBs wollen die E-Bike-Welt revolutionieren. Wir habe getestet: Welcher Minimal Assist Motor klettert in unserem Vergleichstest höher am Berg?
www.bike-magazin.de www.bike-magazin.de
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Thanks, patdam. (And to universal translators!) That article gave me some really useful information. When I can manage a second eMTB is when one will be a lightweight. Or perhaps some clever manufacturer will come up with a middle weight that does everything I want.

Meanwhile I had a particularly great ride this week that took 75% of my battery to keep up with a buddy (who carries a full spare battery and swaps it half way) for around 30 miles and 4,000'. I never went past my level 3 mode and my legs were pretty sore the next day. It was very close to the perfect ride for our local trails. I fell back in love with my Trance which greatly reduced my "I want a new bike" sentiment.
 
Turbo Levo Comp 2019 (500w battery) and a 2021 Orbea Rise. Love them both. They compliment each other. Bike pick depends who I ride with. Levo goes with other strong full eMTB riders. Rise goes with a group of mixed eMTB/analog MTB rider group. When riding alone I often ride the Rise. No regrets. The bikes are different enough to keep me interested.
 
DogRanger said:
What it I don't? Problem solved 100%!


Thanks, patdam. (And to universal translators!) That article gave me some really useful information. When I can manage a second eMTB is when one will be a lightweight. Or perhaps some clever manufacturer will come up with a middle weight that does everything I want.

Meanwhile I had a particularly great ride this week that took 75% of my battery to keep up with a buddy (who carries a full spare battery and swaps it half way) for around 30 miles and 4,000'. I never went past my level 3 mode and my legs were pretty sore the next day. It was very close to the perfect ride for our local trails. I fell back in love with my Trance which greatly reduced my "I want a new bike" sentiment.
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To complete, my experiency:
I have built an "mid" light emtb XC/trail typed , with light carbon frame LCES1075, carbon wheels, light components (but less strong), M510, 15 Ah battery. I 'm +- 100 kg wheight and i need to uphill at less 1000 meter, No way for me to use lighter battery. = +-20.5 kg with light tires (+- 750 kg) for an XL bike.
As I appreciate it a lot, i starting to using it in place of my E10 for high moutain, for that i have incresad the weight (strong wheel, heavy tires) in add i have replaced the M510 by my M600 spare motor. Result +- 23.5 kg, more or less -2.5kg than E10. I don't feel any differencies between the 20.5 and the 23.5, the bike keep fun and playfull. The geometry is a lot of more important than is weight.
Other experiency, with the M600 i use only the 3 first PAS mode (on 9) and 80% the mode 1. i cut the motor under 5% (to powerfull) and i consume less than the M510 (true, it's have power variations) for the same tracks.
I'm fully aggred with the analyze of bike-magazine.

i'm interested by the M820, but for build an road bike and mostly for the lack of resistance upper the 25 km/h limit. Than is low weight. For MTB, lower power, lower autonomie for less weight and less resistance after the motor speed limit, haven't any interest for me.
 
I too ride a 2021 Trance E+1 and have been seriously considering going with a lighter more playful bike. I test rode the SL Pivot and Levo and found them wanting in power but really liked the Fuel Exe’s feel and would pull the trigger on it if not for the range issue. My rides are 99% solo and tend to average 25-30 miles in mode 3 but occasionally go 40 or more if conserving battery. On the TQ bike in sport/turbo to get the same feel as the Trance you just can’t go as far on basically half the battery. Until TQ gives us a bigger battery option I think they’ll lose out on sales to guys like us going from full fat to light assist.

Even with the small range extender I don’t think it would get me there. Maybe getting a second main battery and swapping to a fresh one mid ride would work but I’m not sure of how convenient that would be to do out on the trail. If anyone has experience with a mid ride swap on the Trek I’d love to hear your thoughts.
 
I test rode the orbea rise m20 and yt decoy 29 core 3 back to back yesterday and whilst I did love the feel of the orbea is it's a whole lot lighter, i found I was missing the planted feel and power of the decoy.

To be honest I would probably get the orbea if it was specced to a similar degree, the suspension and brakes on 4.5k bike in a sale just puts me off
 
I have owned and ridden full powered and lower assit extensively. I owned 2 YT decoy bikes. I currently own a Kenevo Sl and a Trek Fuel Exe. I much prefer the ride quality of the lower powered ebikes. The lower weight is very noticeable in the trails I prefer which are downhill. They have plenty of assist to help in the climbs, but you will not be able to keep up with riders on full powered ebikes. I average about 25 miles with 2600’ of climbing on each bike. At 67 that is plenty for me. I think idealy one of each is the way to go. I love the Trek for daily rides but will probably sell the Kenevo and buy a full powered ebike for big rides.
 
DogRanger said:
How much of the battery does a ride like that use? I'm curious what the maximum would be if you use a fairly mild assist on all but the steepest climbing sections?
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I do a majority of climbing in Eco. I will use Trail later in the ride when I’m tired. I only use boost for boring double track climbs to get to the fun stuff. I rode yesterday and did 11.5 miles with 1300’ of climbing and had 50% battery left on the Trek. If you want to ride in boost everywhere, the light powered bikes are going to be short rides. I think that is why you need both types of ebikes. As I’ve gotten older I just don’t have the legs for 25+ mile rides without upping the assist level. I’m probably going to sell the Kenevo SL and get sonething like the new Orbea Wild for those big rides.
 
12.5 miles and 1600' climbing around Hayfield in Derbyshire used 3 bars on my Orbea Urrun battery a few weeks ago.
 
I started with a Creo, then got a gen3 Levo, and more recently a Levo SL (thanks to Specialized new year promo).

At this point, I’ve kept both the full fat E-mtb for group rides and the SL as my analog mtb replacement. But I sold my Creo for an analog gravel bike.

Even though the weight difference between e-mtb’s is only 6kg, they handle quite differently especially in slower tighter trails.
 
Not strictly directly relevant, but there are some good points raised and there's the usual questions of is your light weight a "light" stripped down one .. or a burly lightweight .. The more burly you go, proportionally there's less difference to many full fat bikes.

www.pinkbike.com

Opinion: Why Weight Doesn't Matter by henryquinney - Pinkbike

There's no escaping Henry's lukewarm takes, which now also come in video.
www.pinkbike.com www.pinkbike.com
 
Mike C said:
Turbo Levo Comp 2019 (500w battery) and a 2021 Orbea Rise. Love them both. They compliment each other. Bike pick depends who I ride with. Levo goes with other strong full eMTB riders. Rise goes with a group of mixed eMTB/analog MTB rider group. When riding alone I often ride the Rise. No regrets. The bikes are different enough to keep me interested.
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I have the 19 comp too but on 27.5 with a 170mm lyrik. I really want to add that new 23 Rise to my quiver. I ride by myself a lot and my local is much more like a bikepark so the lightweight bike would be perfect.. Maybe mullet it and add 10mm in the front and rear... maybe an adjustable headset cup.. =) I'm torn on going to a 29 in the front on the levo but would have to purchase a new fork (or lowers) and rim/cc/tire... expensive upgrade... lol. Do you find the Rise to be on par with say a trance, stump jumper, geo wise?
 
Sorry, I have never owned a Trance or Stumpy. My last 3 regular MTBs were all Ibis Mojo's and an HD3's. The shorter Ibis top tube required I ride a Large in that brand instead of a Medium at 5'9." Compared to Ibis bikes, the Rise in Medium fits well and is a bit slacker. I didn't have to change the stem, just moved the saddle back a little.
 
Mike C said:
Sorry, I have never owned a Trance or Stumpy. My last 3 regular MTBs were all Ibis Mojo's and an HD3's. The shorter Ibis top tube required I ride a Large in that brand instead of a Medium at 5'9." Compared to Ibis bikes, the Rise in Medium fits well and is a bit slacker. I didn't have to change the stem, just moved the saddle back a little.
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Fair enough, I guess I just meant that range of trail bikes and used them as examples. I guess that's not really a great question though considering the different suspension systems and designs. Lol brain sharted...
Are you riding the Rise in it's original configuration or have you do done anything to it? I've heard from a lot of people who have pushed it close to the enduro category that they like it even more after, even though Orbea advises against it... (I think they all do that though lol)
 
Nope, riding it as it shipped with no changes. I'm not really picky anyway. Just an intermediate level rider preferring cross country terrain, not a jumper or racer. I'm enjoying the M10 Carbon Rise (rated 38lbs which came with a Fox 36 fork). It handles far differently than the Medium size Levo (50 lbs).
 
Mike C said:
Nope, riding it as it shipped with no changes. I'm not really picky anyway. Just an intermediate level rider preferring cross country terrain, not a jumper or racer. I'm enjoying the M10 Carbon Rise (rated 38lbs which came with a Fox 36 fork). It handles far differently than the Medium size Levo (50 lbs).
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No doubt. I ride greer, skypark, etc a lot which is why I want a 30lb bike. The 2023 carbon I believe is 34lbs now... incredible lol.
I use the Levo for pretty much anything else like vail, daley, black mt, etc. or should I say "I will".. I use it for everything right now and it still performs really well. Lighter bike will be better for those types of tracks though.
 
I’ve got a trek rail and an orbea rise. I prefer the rise for it’s more natural feel and lighter weight and it goes everywhere the trek does but a few mph slower when climbing. The trek is more of a monster truck and I use it when I ride with other full power e-bikes. They are both great and wouldn’t like to choose. But if you want a non emtb feel the rise is better. The rise also has more range even with its smaller 500 battery. Riding the peaks on the trek I get 25mikes and 2500-3000’ of climbing. 99% of the time in turbo and picking the steepest climbs to get up as fast as possible. I do carry a spare battery for long days too.
 
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