Article Is the Shimano EP8 a bad motor?

[steve_sordy]

maybe they know something you/I/we don't? , for example the cost of the actual motor is negligible in the grand scheme of things hence the cost of a full replacement rather than dicking about with making something survivable / un/obsolete in a few years makes more commercial sense (brand perception is a different value metric to companies)

I remember working for a well known car manufacturer where the gear selector mechanism in the centre console was prone to failure,(there were literally skips full of them that were just returned seperated and recycled , but no where near the quantity that were out there in service, the part that failed was a bearing in the magnesium housing , the magnesium housing was a high pressure die cast magnesium part that cost in the region of £1.40 in fact iirc the entire replacement unit was less than 75 quid , anyway the cost of replacing the tool to manufacture the casting ,requalifying all the methods of production, fixtures, manufacturing lines etc, suppliers, SKUs was way more than just keep replacing the units when they failed iirc they made 750k of these things a year across all variants. there be higher powers where profit makes more sense than brand reliability and the virtue of oh well they just give me a new one carries some weight for some people whilst it doesn't for others

Didn't Ford do a calculation like that with the fuel tank on the Pinto? The numbers men decide that it was cheaper to pay compensation to the families of those burned to death than it was to recall and replace. Ralph Nader an American lawyer got involved and consumer protection became a concept. Ford was found guilty in the subsequent court case and the judge fined Ford so much that no other company ever did that sort of trad- off ever again (or has been discovered to have done so).

 

[Winford]

the cost of the actual motor is negligible in the grand scheme of things

that is nonsense

We go through motors, so replacement cost is a huge factor of owning a Eike, higher cost to produce means high consumer prices.

Shimano made a unreliable piece of junk with the E801, the redesigned the power delivery and made garbage. They are now out of the game. And so conservative they tanked themselves. Ignorance and stubborn on their part.

 

[mmcengineer]

that is nonsense

We go through motors, so replacement cost is a huge factor of owning a Eike, higher cost to produce means high consumer prices.

Shimano made an unreliable piece of junk with the E801, the redesigned the power delivery and made garbage. They are now out of the game. And so conservative they tanked themselves. Ignorance and stubborn on ok when your on the board of a company like Shimano and have figures come back and tell us what insignificant amount

Didn't Ford do a calculation like that with the fuel tank on the Pinto? The numbers men decide that it was cheaper to pay compensation to the families of those burned to death than it was to recall and replace. Ralph Nader an American lawyer got involved and consumer protection became a concept. Ford was found guilty in the subsequent court case and the judge fined Ford so much that no other company ever did that sort of trad- off ever again (or has been discovered to have done so).

Didn't Ford do a calculation like that with the fuel tank on the Pinto? The numbers men decide that it was cheaper to pay compensation to the families of those burned to death than it was to recall and replace. Ralph Nader an American lawyer got involved and consumer protection became a concept. Ford was found guilty in the subsequent court case and the judge fined Ford so much that no other company ever did that sort of trad- off ever again (or has been discovered to have done so).

I

that is nonsense

We go through motors, so replacement cost is a huge factor of owning a Eike, higher cost to produce means high consumer prices.

Shimano made a unreliable piece of junk with the E801, the redesigned the power delivery and made garbage. They are now out of the game. And so conservative they tanked themselves. Ignorance and stubborn on their

Didn't Ford do a calculation like that with the fuel tank on the Pinto? The numbers men decide that it was cheaper to pay compensation to the families of those burned to death than it was to recall and replace. Ralph Nader an American lawyer got involved and consumer protection became a concept. Ford was found guilty in the subsequent court case and the judge fined Ford so much that no other company ever did that sort of trad- off ever again (or has been discovered to have done so).

a lot of it is myth and folklore

The fine awarded

Didn't Ford do a calculation like that with the fuel tank on the Pinto? The numbers men decide that it was cheaper to pay compensation to the families of those burned to death than it was to recall and replace. Ralph Nader an American lawyer got involved and consumer protection became a concept. Ford was found guilty in the subsequent court case and the judge fined Ford so much that no other company ever did that sort of trad- off ever again (or has been discovered to have done so).

i believe a lot of it is folklore whilst the initial fine was huge it was reduced to less than 1 or 2 percent of the total sum awarded eventually and responsibility for deaths were acquitted at trial ,the internet is amazing at actually massaging the facts into legend I do believe the lawyers still work in that way however by , shall we call it navigating the rules , it would be interesting to be a fly in the boardroom at Boeing I’m sure but I guess that’s why these companies pay good money to people to figure all this out

 

[Winford]

Shimano is less reliable

Depends on which motor you have. The EP801 has different battery electronics. My Canyon has new Shimano battery, 3rd motor in a year, and 3 or 4 Rosenberger cables. And still shut off yesterday 4 times while riding. All my friends with same bike shut off as well. FK shimano. If you ride them slow or in eco all day, they will last longer then the typical 3000 mile average. Here its all steep hills, the local authorized shimano tech says he sees 3000 miles on average out of all motors. We do live in a very competitive area [endurance capitol of the world]

 

[steve_sordy]

The fine awarded

i believe a lot of it is folklore whilst the initial fine was huge it was reduced to less than 1 or 2 percent of the total sum awarded eventually and responsibility for deaths were acquitted at trial ,the internet is amazing at actually massaging the facts into legend I do believe the lawyers still work in that way however by , shall we call it navigating the rules , it would be interesting to be a fly in the boardroom at Boeing I’m sure but I guess that’s why these companies pay good money to people to figure all this out

Thanks for that! My knowledge of the Pinto debacle was based upon pre-internet information. It was taught to me when I was at college (early 70's), I got a reminder at uni (mid 70's). The lesson was learned, but the bit about the fine being reduced to 1-2% eventually, had passed me by. But the episode was a salutary lesson for major companies and it permanently changed their relationship with their customers. We have a lot to thank Ralph Nader for.