How long will your EMTB last you?

[33red]

What exactly are you basing the Yamaha motor's reliability on?

I read before buying and i keep on reading. It is out there for those who look.

 

[33red]

Will be interesting to see how the new Bosch motor stands up to the test of time with its smaller size and reduced number of components. When I was a kid and took things apart and removed half the stuff out of them they never worked quite as well as before ?

Time will tell. Hopefully soon there will be 2-3 that last a reasonable time for a reasonable price.

 

[Gary]

I read before buying and i keep on reading. It is out there for those who look.

Read what?

If you look hard enough you can read all about how the earth is flat too.

 

[Ananda]

My friendly local haibike dealer said that too about yamaha motors. They get far less issues with those than with the bosch. As you know the haibike line uses both.
Incidentaly, in the world of motorbikes yamaha are the most reliable.

 

[Coletti]

I’m pointing out there’s an efficiency cost to the level of over engineering needed in a truck.

Let’s face it, comparing reliability of an e-bike to a truck is not valid.

The comparison is made simply on one vehicle to another in relation to the price paid and what you expect to get out of it. It seems as though people would pay a lot for a car and expect it to last and do 10s of thousands of miles in it relatively hassle free yet spend the same money on a bike and you're happy to accept you may get less than 1k miles before a majour and expensive component fails and have to sell in 2 years due to the fact it's going to continually break. It's just daft

Edit. My truck suffers far more abuse in harsher environments yet still carries on relatively hassle free. There's no reason an e bike couldn't do more miles without failure and in my opinion, for the money they cost, they absolutely should do, or at they very least they should come with a minimum 5 year warranty, least that way you would definitely get your moneys worth before having to upgrade

 

[Beekeeper]

If I ride to the shops and back on my ebike it’s gonna last forever.
If I hit the trails and do a few black runs in my new Peugeot it’s gonna fall to bits ?

 

[33red]

Read what?

If you look hard enough you can read all about how the earth is flat too.

Last oct/nov i found some on E-Bikes - Mtbr.com
now i also use Electric Bike Forum - Q&A, Help, Reviews and Maintenance

 

[Coletti]

If I ride to the shops and back on my ebike it’s gonna last forever.
If I hit the trails and do a few black runs in my new Peugeot it’s gonna fall to bits ?

Alternatively if you switch the roles back to normal the peugeot will last for years as that's what it's designed and built to do whereas the e bike will fall to bits as that's what it's designed to do, wait, that doesn't sound right...surely the ebike should last doing what it was designed and built to do?

 

[Doomanic]

The amount of money spent developing eBikes pales into insignificance when compared to the £4-5 billion developing a new car platform so to compare longevity isn't really fair.
Also, the more environment resistant you make the motors and batteries the heavier, more complicated, more expensive and less efficient they will be. You want IP68 rating? It's possible, but it will cost you, both in financial terms and efficiency.

 

[Beekeeper]

The amount of money spent developing eBikes pales into insignificance when compared to the £4-5 billion developing a new car platform so to compare longevity isn't really fair.
Also, the more environment resistant you make the motors and batteries the heavier, more complicated, more expensive and less efficient they will be. You want IP68 rating? It's possible, but it will cost you, both in financial terms and efficiency.

Yeah good point about the weight / reliability factor. We know that the only thing in an aircraft that doesn’t get destroyed in a crash is the black box. So why not make the whole plane out of the same materials as the black box? It simply wouldn’t be able to get off the ground ?

 

[DrStupid]

I have to admit, this thread has almost completely put me off the idea of an ebike. I was completely sold on it, but having read this and further research into reliability I'm not sure its such a wise idea now. As we all know,they aren't exactly cheap and I for one certainly can't afford to replace it as soon as the warranty is up (especially considering there is next to no resale value due to woes over reliability) and it sounds like it could be just as expensive to keep an ebike out of warranty. Seems to me like manufacturers couldn't care about their longevity provided the make a killing on new sales. Pretty disappointing to be honest

I have three, a Giant Trance e+ 1 Pro, a BMC Speedfox AMP 3, and a KHS 6555+ Voltiac. So far, I have had very little trouble, and none related to the motor or batteries. The Trance has the most miles with about 600.

 

[Gary]

Last oct/nov i found some on E-Bikes - Mtbr.com
now i also use Electric Bike Forum - Q&A, Help, Reviews and Maintenance

2 vague links to other E bike forums?
you might as well have just given me a link to Google.com
do you have any real evidence pointing towards the validity your claims?

 

[MattyB]

The amount of money spent developing eBikes pales into insignificance when compared to the £4-5 billion developing a new car platform so to compare longevity isn't really fair.
Also, the more environment resistant you make the motors and batteries the heavier, more complicated, more expensive and less efficient they will be. You want IP68 rating? It's possible, but it will cost you, both in financial terms and efficiency.

Agreed. The car also has >100 years of development behind it and huge economies of scale working in its favour. Mid drive ebikes will become more reliable in time, but for now they are very much a work in progress, irrelevant of which manufacturer we are talking about.

 

[33red]

Agreed. The car also has >100 years of development behind it and huge economies of scale working in its favour. Mid drive ebikes will become more reliable in time, but for now they are very much a work in progress, irrelevant of which manufacturer we are talking about.

Realy?

*** irrelevant of which manufacturer we are talking about ***

Good try, many excusesss to cover the over price from a few
with products not ready.
Start by buying back all those bikes instead of pretending they are all the same.
Their marketing is we are different, we are the best.

 

[Jamsxr]

Realy?

*** irrelevant of which manufacturer we are talking about ***

Good try, many excusesss to cover the over price from a few
with products not ready.
Start by buying back all those bikes instead of pretending they are all the same.
Their marketing is we are different, we are the best.

You need to lay of the special sauce! ?

 

[Rusty]

Realy?

*** irrelevant of which manufacturer we are talking about ***

Good try, many excusesss to cover the over price from a few
with products not ready.
Start by buying back all those bikes instead of pretending they are all the same.
Their marketing is we are different, we are the best.

Give it a rest dude.
I have raced motorcycles professionally for Yamaha and they are juat as likely to turn out a turkey as they are to turn out a good one. Their original 'monoshock' (which was a stolen idea anyways) was a top-heavy, evil handling POS that ended a few careers. Some of their other ideas were not too flash either.

Anyways, back to ebikes. Yamaha was 100 years or so after the first ebike - they just found an idea already floated by someone and developed it to a useable level. Yes they make a passable motor, but I would have expected they would have made their motors more natural feeling and a damn site quieter by now.

However, all those so-called 'unreliable' brands actually have decades more experience with electric motors than Yamaha and if one actually looks at the tens of thousands of commuter motors they have put out they actually have reasonable reliability.
Where we are seeing issues is from what several LBS have told me is with bikes riding on more extreme trails and way more agressively than previously. A couple, who were professional racers on analogue bikes have thought quite a bit about some of the issues their customers have faced and they both came to one conclusion - the wiring looms and connectors need to be beefier and better sealed than they currently are, which is pretty much the same as the commuter bikes.

Me, I own both Shimano and Brose powered bikes - about $18K NZD worth and except for the low spec componentry on the Specialized am happy with my choices. Tested several other brands and 3 different motors before buying my first and probably would make the the same choice today unless the new Bosch puts power down better out on the advanced trails.

 

[Coletti]

Agreed. The car also has >100 years of development behind it and huge economies of scale working in its favour. Mid drive ebikes will become more reliable in time, but for now they are very much a work in progress, irrelevant of which manufacturer we are talking about.

Like I've already said, yes ebikes are new but the components aren't, motors, bearings and batteries etc have been tried and tested for many years, hence my saying they are obviously just using cheap components to gain the most profit. Again as I have previously said, they should have at least a 5 year warranty, maybe with specific service intervals. that way at least the end user has piece of mind

 

[Beekeeper]

Give it a rest dude.
I have raced motorcycles professionally for Yamaha and they are juat as likely to turn out a turkey as they are to turn out a good one. Their original 'monoshock' (which was a stolen idea anyways) was a top-heavy, evil handling POS that ended a few careers. Some of their other ideas were not too flash either.

Anyways, back to ebikes. Yamaha was 100 years or so after the first ebike - they just found an idea already floated by someone and developed it to a useable level. Yes they make a passable motor, but I would have expected they would have made their motors more natural feeling and a damn site quieter by now.

However, all those so-called 'unreliable' brands actually have decades more experience with electric motors than Yamaha and if one actually looks at the tens of thousands of commuter motors they have put out they actually have reasonable reliability.
Where we are seeing issues is from what several LBS have told me is with bikes riding on more extreme trails and way more agressively than previously. A couple, who were professional racers on analogue bikes have thought quite a bit about some of the issues their customers have faced and they both came to one conclusion - the wiring looms and connectors need to be beefier and better sealed than they currently are, which is pretty much the same as the commuter bikes.

Me, I own both Shimano and Brose powered bikes - about $18K NZD worth and except for the low spec componentry on the Specialized am happy with my choices. Tested several other brands and 3 different motors before buying my first and probably would make the the same choice today unless the new Bosch puts power down better out on the advanced trails.

Good point you make about it being a vicious circle. If reliability was improved significantly then people would naturally want to do higher jumps and ride more damaging terrain and push the bikes even harder. We will always push the boundaries as that is human nature and I guess it fuels technological progress. We are of course early adopters here in this emerging mode of transport. Reminds me of early Sat Navs and smartphones in a way. Still a very exciting time to be in I feel.

 

[Rusty]

We are of course early adopters here in this emerging mode of transport.

I was racing MX at the time Honda brought out the Elsinores. With those and the Suzuki TMs we suddenly had reasonably reliable bikes to race .... until we started trying to make them go faster - and started jumping a lot longer that previously thought possible. They still had lots of suspect components though - plastic swingarm bushes, little sealing of the drum brake systems, unsealed steering head bearings, poor quality bearings and lots more.

 

[33red]

I just did a few months of motorcycling.
One thing i read is some Ebikes have belt issues.
I might be wrong but i guess 0% are Yamaha.
So 10,000% of the belts problems are from others.
You can disagree but when we were born facts were facts.
This new trendy thing of make your own facts
choose your own facts
well i have not joined that one.

 

[Rusty]

One thing i read is some Ebikes have belt issues.
I might be wrong but i guess 0% are Yamaha.
So 10,000% of the belts problems are from others.

Correct. My understanding is that Yamaha has issues with gear 2 and gear 4 wearing under high load as they are nylon. Can't figure out how the motor can be so danged loud with steel gears meshing to nylon ones.

 

[Welshman]

1000 miles without issues is not exactly what you call a success story.

compared to some it is..........what would you class as success? unicorns and pixies spring to mind

 

[Welshman]

I just did a few months of motorcycling.
One thing i read is some Ebikes have belt issues.
I might be wrong but i guess 0% are Yamaha.
So 10,000% of the belts problems are from others.
You can disagree but when we were born facts were facts.
This new trendy thing of make your own facts
choose your own facts
well i have not joined that one.

maths not your best subject hey.......

 

[33red]

I have nothing to say. I am no engeneer, this is the first i read about this.
What are the results?
How will i know if my engine experience that thing?
All i know is my 2017 is running fine as far as i know with about 3,880kms and i read many encouraging things for reliability. Like yesterday i read 3 years warranty so covered an other 28 months.

 

[Welshman]

I have nothing to say. I am no engeneer, this is the first i read about this.
What are the results?
How will i know if my engine experience that thing?
All i know is my 2017 is running fine as far as i know with about 3,880kms and i read many encouraging things for reliability. Like yesterday i read 3 years warranty so covered an other 28 months.

so you've done nearly 4000km's in 8 months???

 

[Fivetones]

It’s amazing the nonsense that gets spouted on forums isn’t it?

There’s a simple fact here that we should remember: we are early adopters of a technology that’s not proven yet, and even more to the point, not proven in a UK climate in particular (I know, we’re worldwide in membership on the forum but the UK is....damp).

Along with that comes acceptance of various short comings and that things will change rapidly. Being an early adopter isn’t for everyone.

BUT this is potentially a much bigger future market than it is now (when the early majority get on board). All companies involved will be looking for every bit of feedback to get an advantage over the competition. There are no monopolies and there’s minimal customer lock-in. Added to the fact e-MTBs are fun! I’m excited by the possibilities.

 

[33red]

so you've done nearly 4000km's in 8 months???

I am in Montreal, Quebec, so i was having fun on my **standard** Specialized fatbike till april 15 then letting trails dry so mainly 4 months. The first 4 months was occasional use. Without a car i pedal daily that is why i value reliable. Often i pedal 11kms to the trails, play there than pedal back. Just average 30 km/day x 30 = 900/month, a bit less for rainy days. My bike sees streets, roads and trails.

 

[Beekeeper]

Quite interesting article about the psychology of early adopters. We are very different from the crowd in the way we think and are driven by different forces....

https://sarensakurai.com/the-psychology-of-the-early-adopter/

 

[Pukmeister]

I am an Engineer (ex-military and mechanical/ marine) so have studied everything from stress analysis and metallurgy through to manufacturing processes.

I would wager that as economies of scale come into effect and unit costs drop, the manufacturers can move into more aerospace grade materials to further improve reliability and save weight. Using titanium for hollow spindles and gear hubs within the motor, or neodymium permanent magnets to increase flux density and reduce motor footprint for example.

I watched a video online last night of the Verbier Ebike festival (one of my personal favourite ski resorts), that shows clearly how the growth of emtb's is a serious business now and when they (very soon) hit mainstream acceptance, things will massively take off. Imagine the USA getting onboard properly in just a few years ?

 

[Beekeeper]

I am an Engineer (ex-military and mechanical/ marine) so have studied everything from stress analysis and metallurgy through to manufacturing processes.

I would wager that as economies of scale come into effect and unit costs drop, the manufacturers can move into more aerospace grade materials to further improve reliability and save weight. Using titanium for hollow spindles and gear hubs within the motor, or neodymium permanent magnets to increase flux density and reduce motor footprint for example.

I watched a video online last night of the Verbier Ebike demo week, that shows clearly how the growth of emtb's is a serious business now and when they (very soon) hit mainstream acceptance, things will massively take off.

Looks like you are an inexhaustible information gatherer ??. One of the 3 qualities of an early adopter