Have Avinox given us a good thing (or not)?

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mr.skywalker said:
Id like to see a standardized head to head test where same power and torque numbers and see which one can get thru extremely technical climbs, thats where the difference really comes out. I had a test area where I struggled to get up one section with cyc x1 pro set to 750w but dropping it to 500w made it easier(I tuned for very progressive power and builds with cadence so smooth pull up in power) and back to back tested with orbea rise and it did the climb even easier even at peak power(pretty close to same 500w) but the traction was easier to modulate without looping it out but the lighter bike probably helped too. If only we could have standard mounts and take the bike out the equation lol. Ive heard the avinox is great on this modulation so thats what interests me more than anything as I plan to get a Amflow PR if I sell my other ebikes or I just need a proper premade full power ebike for a change but shop is crowded with all my business ventures(cyc x1 pro bike, hybrid bike with toseven dm02, transition relay, and 3 analog bikes lol 5 of those bikes are purely for business)
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How a eBIKE climbs technical hard climbs, is more about bike geometry than motor power.
Power will allow to climb fireroads/roads faster (if you derestrict the ebike), but technical hard climbs, is all about motor usability and torque deliver.

Unfortunately, ebikes don't have some kind of inertia mechanism (like motos have with flywheel+clutch), and motor being only controlled with pedals, you really need very fine tune to connect rider imput and motor output.

Seeing the graphics, I find it difficult to ear so good things about Avinox, when power motor curve, shows a tremendous amout of Motor Power with so little power from rider...

A rider pedalling at 50W and 70W is barely noticeable, but motor power difference is huge!
Next move will be traction control, and anti-wheeling... to make it more "C A P A B L E".
The big issue is: Riding Technic is not bought....

PS: What is really hilarious, is seeing people at Youtube sharing the Avinox Wonder...
but when Bosch released Smartsystem, and you could tune up all settings in Turbo Mode, many said it was super difficult to control!
Presently, AVINOX is shown as a more brut motor, and I don't see anyone talking about...


eMTB-forum.webp
 
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Weeksy said:
But even if Bosch themselves only replace the motor, at least the parts are available for 3rd parties to do so.

I can see the not too distant future where your bike breaks and due to so many motor issues you're sitting there for 2 months waiting for a new motor...
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irie said:
Other than the motor with associated control software what is unique about AMFlow bikes?

Point by point please, take your time no probs.
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Exept the game changer motor ? May be the price, the weight for an full power with 800W battery , the quick charge, the thin design, the cycle part and his component who provide an good rambling bike, etc..
 
Mario Antony said:
How a eBIKE climbs technical hard climbs, is more about bike geometry than motor power.
Power will allow to climb fireroads/roads faster (if you derestrict the ebike), but technical hard climbs, is all about motor usability and torque deliver.

Unfortunately, ebikes don't have some kind of inertia mechanism (like motos have with flywheel+clutch), and motor being only controlled with pedals, you really need very fine tune to connect rider imput and motor output.

Seeing the graphics, I find it difficult to ear so good things about Avinox, when power motor curve, shows a tremendous amout of Motor Power with so little power from rider...

A rider pedalling at 50W and 70W is barely noticeable, but motor power difference is huge!
Next move will be traction control, and anti-wheeling... to make it more "C A P A B L E".
The big issue is: Riding Technic is not bought....

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I agree the bike has a huge factor(in this case it was steel frame single pivot with tons of antisquat vs orbeas very good pedaling platform so it has great traction) but the motor tune itself also makes a huge difference. Thats why I wish we could see a common bike platform for motor comparisons to take out the bike factor

But those are all tuneable no? it doest have to be 400% assistance right? Thats just what it can provide up to based on setting. Is that not correct? Again no personal experience but my understanding is it is very manageable even with high power which suggests it has a great tune(and of course easy to tune with screen or app)
 
irie said:
Other than the motor (which is by definition unique to DJI) with associated control software, what else is unique about AMFlow bikes or other bikes with the DJI motor?

Point by point please, take your time no probs.

Edit: add "or other bikes with the DJI motor."
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I will not do your homework. Compare every element of the puzzle. Battery, charger, controller, software, costumer support -how did they look before avinox came to the market?
 
irie said:
Other than the motor (which is by definition unique to DJI) with associated control software, what else is unique about AMFlow bikes or other bikes with the DJI motor?

Point by point please, take your time no probs.

Edit: add "or other bikes with the DJI motor."
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Good geo that is adjustable and comes with headset cups. Light. Slim and handles very good. Probably best value current bike price for what you get.

Now add in all the functions with Avinox which the list there goes on and on. Is all of this unique to amflow, no, but it is probably the best bang for buck bike which is unique to the Amflow.

Isn’t this thread about Avinox? But yeah of course let’s hate on amflow again…
 
Brawwp said:
Good geo that is adjustable and comes with headset cups. Light. Slim and handles very good. Probably best value current bike price for what you get.

Now add in all the functions with Avinox which the list there goes on and on. Is all of this unique to amflow, no, but it is probably the best bang for buck bike which is unique to the Amflow.

Isn’t this thread about Avinox? But yeah of course let’s hate on amflow again…
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Do disagree and not like is not the same as hate.
 
Polar said:
Do disagree and not like is not the same as hate.
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That’s ok to disagree, but bringing up amflow once again into an avinox thread and trying to get people to list out what is unique about it in a condescending way seems like hating to me.

I gotta get off this thread. It’s going nowhere. M2s is already out. Love it or hate it, I sure will be enjoying it!
 
Rob Rides EMTB said:
I think there’s a lot more to it than power. Headline figures are usually the main attraction to a product, be it tech (CPU speed, RAM/ cars (BHP/battery) / bikes (weight / motor power)

But with Avinox I think they’ve bought a fair bit of innovation to the market. Take their new 700wh battery. It’s a brand new cell, that’s allowed incredibly thin downtubes. Compare that to Bosch and Gen 4 Levo that look ancient in comparison.

And also they are driving prices down. £3999 for a PR Carbon bike with AXS wireless and 800wh battery, that’s pricing innovation. They are capturing the entire market segment right down to entry level (like they do with drones).
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I do agree with all of that, though I wonder if their £3999 bike is at a loss to conquer another section of the market. But either way getting bike prices back under control is huge, I remember when you could go and get a fairly decent emtb for under £3k, the last few years has seen a lot of £10k+ bikes.

Either way, what they've done with drones and action cameras is amazing, no-one is buying gopro anymore. I own one of their drones and it's seriously impressive tech. If they bring all of that to bikes the future is very bright.

Rob Rides EMTB said:
Other than that, they’ve bought several very usable features, like fast charging, coast shifting, touch screens, slim bikes, excellentl integrated systems, rapid software updates.

Bikes now have Navigation on the screen, I can’t wait until I can ditch the Garmin completely.
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I do have to argue on that one. Sorry. But like the comments on your video - bosch had navigation years ago, it's great. I only use garmin on my specialized gravel bike, on my emtb the bosch navigation works fantastically and has guided me for years through new trails from gpx files on youtube vids.

Rob Rides EMTB said:
You could always argue that these are small things that anyone could do- but in reality no one executed on these things when they really should have.

Bosch seem to operate at glacial pace. It’s not that they can’t do this stuff, they just seem to take so long to do things. Even to activate the derailleur power we need to take the bike to a dealer and they need to plug in the bike to a laptop to activate it?!

Specialized’s motto is Innovate or die. They had the market in 2017-2022 but now they have fallen behind and the Levo 4 is hardly capturing hearts and minds of EMTB fans like they once did.

I have absolutely zero doubt that DJI are / will be working on gearbox / CVT style transmission systems. They are already working on M3S of course now. They have no drivetrain business to worry about and they of course know that this is the bikes Achilles heel.
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Yeah sadly agree with that too - Bosch had the whole market in their hands but big chunky controls, having to go into a dealer to switch a power port on.. it even took ages to get over the air updates.

Having said that I went and bought a new bosch gen 5 bike this week. I don't need massive power and I don't think amflow have proven themselves on the support/warranty front yet, so I'm sticking with what I know. Avinox looks to be a very very nice system but at the moment the choice seems to be amflow for reasonable price or very high priced avinox motors in other niche brands :)
 
ObiWanBenobi said:
I think some of the 'it's too powerful crew' are secretly worried that their favourite manufacturer that they have a parasocial relationship with, is being completely trounced by a new entry to the market and likely won't be around soon.

From the reviews the new Amflow and DJI combo is looking incredible.

Good riddance Bosch.

Sorry it ended like this Specialized.

Shut the door on the way out.
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Perhaps some, but I've bought a new Cube with Bosch Gen 5 this week.

Cube and bosch warranty has been superb for me over the last 5 years (next day replacement of a bosch display that failed)
Avinox is definitely a more modern system, but in the price range I'm willing to spend on a hobby it's basically only amflow bikes.
Having dealt with warranty claims and troubleshooting from China on both DJI drones and Bambu printers.... it's "lacking"

When the manufacturers with good warranty support have avinox bikes in a decent price range I'll buy one, but for now I'd rather not spend more and get less suspension/brakes/components.
 
irie said:
It is very likely that DJI will indeed indirectly 'shape legislation', and most likely in ways that you and many others will not like.
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I'm pretty sure this was the original point of this thread before it derailed

Several US states now state that ebikes over 750w must be registered and treated like electric motorbikes.
The power increases are great, and tons of fun, until you have to have a registration plate on the bike and pay tax.
 
Polar said:
Before all brands stretched to Specialized and tried to beat them in all ways, now Amflow is dragging the innovation, if other brands want to beat Amflow power, components and price is king.
Specialized has several legs to stand on and can easily ditch emtb but I doubt it and are looking forward to next generation Levo.
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High Rock Ruti

"Next generation Levo" for $6,000!😍

Warm Regards Ruti
 
igro_les said:
I have a bike with an Avinox motor (not Amflow, though) and I feel the same. The Avinox system is great and the brand is certainly innovating, but it's also overhyped. Among other things, because 1500w is ridiculously unnecessary. Way beyond what makes sense at all. I'd prefer that they focus on making the motors and batteries smaller and lighter. Then some integration would be great (broadcasting cyclist power to my GPS, for instance) and call it a day.
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But along with the power, they already have made the batteries and the motors smaller and lighter. Part of the reason I bought my Forbidden Core was how slim it looks compared to the Ari, trek and even Pivots with the Bosch systems. For years people have wanted a lighter ebike with more power. Amflow has done it and at a price point that lets more people into the market. Not surprising so many brands have jumped on board. I agree the M2S may be excessive for most riders and maybe they can make the batteries and motors even smaller and lighter. Just a couple years ago we didn't think what we have now was possible. Saving all my babysitting money, just in case. Ha...
 
After reading entire thread I’ll jump in on this one. I feel the current power of pedal assist MTB is where it needs to be. And end. Work on your fitness and riding skills instead of wanting more power. Look at all the inexperienced irresponsible drivers wadding themselves (and others) up in high HP cars and motorcycles nowadays. Id like to see the power curves be more adjustable tho. In other words where the max torque hits in relation to pedal cadence and speed. I dont think we want every Tom Dick and Harry bombing down (and up) mountain bike trails. I don’t think that scenario bodes well for the sport in general.
 
Would anyone know if e-bikes with the Avinox M2S motor require registration and insurance to be ridden legally in Canada?
 
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emtbPhil said:
I'm pretty sure this was the original point of this thread before it derailed

Several US states now state that ebikes over 750w must be registered and treated like electric motorbikes.
The power increases are great, and tons of fun, until you have to have a registration plate on the bike and pay tax.
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As the OP it's surprising and refreshing that this far down the thread there are still a few commentators who recall what the original point was! 😁
 
I don't own an emtb so I'm in no real position to comment but I will have one when funds and the time allows.

I'd been set on a SL Bosch SX motored bike and still am in a way mainly as I'm not massively strong upper body wise and I'm massively unfit too but from what I've read so far, a full powered bike would be better for me. Seeing this Avinox motor has opened up new avenues for me and that by getting one over a Bosch CX or SX is a no brainer.

What puts me off is they are Chinese and they are watching and hacking into everything, does that not worry people? I don't want the Chinese state having access to all my personal details and from what I've read, DJI are owned by the Chinese sovereign state.

Also I'd read somewhere on this forum about battery proprietary being an issue in the future or something? Can't remember fully what it was. Bosch don't have these issues and are far better developed in this sense.
 
Crazylegs1892 said:
I don't own an emtb so I'm in no real position to comment but I will have one when funds and the time allows.

I'd been set on a SL Bosch SX motored bike and still am in a way mainly as I'm not massively strong upper body wise and I'm massively unfit too but from what I've read so far, a full powered bike would be better for me. Seeing this Avinox motor has opened up new avenues for me and that by getting one over a Bosch CX or SX is a no brainer.

What puts me off is they are Chinese and they are watching and hacking into everything, does that not worry people? I don't want the Chinese state having access to all my personal details and from what I've read, DJI are owned by the Chinese sovereign state.

Also I'd read somewhere on this forum about battery proprietary being an issue in the future or something? Can't remember fully what it was. Bosch don't have these issues and are far better developed in this sense.
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You write this from your Chinese made phone/computer using a Chinese made WiFi router. A bicycle is the least of your worries.

If these people want to hack you, it doesn’t matter where any of your stuff is made from.
 
I'm more worried about all the Americans with access to our data, especially as they have so much access to UK infrastructure and we're paying them for the privilege. DJI being a Chinese company doesn't worry me at all in comparison.
 
Roughshod said:
I'm more worried about all the Americans with access to our data, especially as they have so much access to UK infrastructure and we're paying them for the privilege. DJI being a Chinese company doesn't worry me at all in comparison.
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I wouldn't worry about that, you just posted on a website hosted on Cloudflare. America has gone full hatstand but your data went long before that.
 
RustyMTB said:
I wouldn't worry about that, you just posted on a website hosted on Cloudflare. America has gone full hatstand but your data went long before that.
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Yeah I'm well aware of that, and all the others, Google, Meta, Amazon, etc. Hence why getting a Chinese powered ebike is of little concern in comparison.
 
To me the best thing Avinox is doing (along with Amflow) will be to drive down prices…

I think we’re at the point where we don’t need more power, personally feel the G3 Levo hit the sweet spot on that, and as someone else said progress needs making now on battery tech to power anything with more watts without them being too big and too heavy.

I feel the high wattages makes for easy clicks on YouTube etc and that then does seem to be taking the shine away from every other part of a bike… I feel we’re moving away from proper mountain bikers and turning into tech geeks. It amazes me still that people would rather ride a shitter bike because it has a thinner downtube.
 
mr.skywalker said:
Dieselgate was actually breaking the rules, this is just taking advantage of there being no official rules.

Loved my tdi sportwagen after a reflash of the dieselgate fix 😄
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Off topic but- I don’t agree that VW was breaking the rules. They actually designed their system to comply with the test/rules. IMO people didn’t like that VW violated the spirit of the rules; so they were made an example of.
 
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