Fox Float X fails after 1 month

[nickf]

My recently purchased Trek Fuel+ has a Fox Float X factory shock. Too much bling for me personally, but that's what it came with.

After just over a month of not very aggressive riding (no jumps, big drops etc) the shock is now loudly squelching under compression and you can almost hear the oil sloshing around inside. My guess is the IFP seal has leaked and quite a lot of air has mixed in with the hydraulic fluid.

The shop has suggested I bring the shock in to confirm a diagnosis before sending it off to Fox for repair/service under warranty. But they've said I will be liable for the postage costs to and from Fox. Can this be right? Surely Fox should include the transportation costs as part of their obligations under warranty?

Am I being naively extravagant in my expectations of Fox's warranty service? Can anyone else who's had to send an almost new shock back to Fox under warranty confirm who pays the postage?

I know the previous Float X2 models had reliability issues but I thought Fox had recently fixed those, and in any case they didn't apply to the Float X? Does anyone know what the reliability of the Float X models is like? After this disappointing early experience I might just ditch it and buy something else.

 

[irie]

My recently purchased Trek Fuel+ has a Fox Float X factory shock. Too much bling for me personally, but that's what it came with.

After just over a month of not very aggressive riding (no jumps, big drops etc) the shock is now loudly squelching under compression and you can almost hear the oil sloshing around inside. My guess is the IFP seal has leaked and quite a lot of air has mixed in with the hydraulic fluid.

The shop has suggested I bring the shock in to confirm a diagnosis before sending it off to Fox for repair/service under warranty. But they've said I will be liable for the postage costs to and from Fox. Can this be right? Surely Fox should include the transportation costs as part of their obligations under warranty?

Am I being naively extravagant in my expectations of Fox's warranty service? Can anyone else who's had to send an almost new shock back to Fox under warranty confirm who pays the postage?

I know the previous Float X2 models had reliability issues but I thought Fox had recently fixed those, and in any case they didn't apply to the Float X? Does anyone know what the reliability of the Float X models is like? After this disappointing early experience I might just ditch it and buy something else.

Your contract of sale is with who you bought the bike from. If a month ago you bought it from "the shop" above then, unless the contract of sale expressly states otherwise, it is they who are contractually bound to replace faulty components at their cost.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Yes, you pay shipping to Fox for warranty or service work, at least in the US. As far as the shop/LBS covering the cost, that's going to depend on the contract and your relationship with them.

 

[steve_sordy]

Ask the LBS why they expect you to pay for anything on a warranty claim. But times are very hard for small shops these days, especially bike shops, don't be too hard on them and give them a break. Keep on good terms with them, you may need them later when something fails just outside warranty.
The postage is not going to be that much in the scheme of things.

 

[nickf]

I live in France so we're governed by EU consumer law. I've checked the law which states that it is the SELLER who is responsible for either repairing or replacing faulty goods under warranty. It also states that the buyer cannot claim against the manufacturer or the importer of the faulty goods, because the warranty claim is the seller's responsibility.

So this would clearly put the onus on the LBS which I would consider unjust, unless the manufacturer of the faulty goods is also responsible to the LBS for reimbursing all their costs involved in getting the goods repaired/replaced (presumably by the manufacturer - in this case Fox).

I personally have no gripe with the LBS as it's hardly their fault that Fox have produced a duff product, neither is it my fault that I bought a bike with the duff product on it. So despite the law, I agree that it's tough on the poor LBS if they have to incur any costs at all to resolve the issue. Is it naive to hope that Fox will put their hand up and accept all the costs - including postage - of providing the LBS with a fully functioning shock that they can then hand back to me?

We shall see how it plays out.

 

[steve_sordy]

@nickf The LBS who sells a bike to you gets a deal with the bike maker that includes him dealing with warranty claims. This keeps the administration costs down for everyone. But I guess that the LBS has to submit figures on a regular basis.

 

[Weeksy]

Perfectly reasonable IMO for you to pay cost. You can actually book it yourself on Silverfish/Fox. I've never paid for return postage though

 

[irie]

Perfectly reasonable IMO for you to pay cost. You can actually book it yourself on Silverfish/Fox. I've never paid for return postage though

Why should the buyer, who is in France and subject to EU law, pay anything for any component which has failed within the warranty period and especially in this case within 1 month of purchase? Warranty claim costs are already priced into product prices - help out the LBS perhaps but not the manufacturer, in this case Trek.

 

[Weeksy]

Why should the buyer, who is in France and subject to EU law, pay anything for any component which has failed within the warranty period and especially in this case within 1 month of purchase? Warranty claim costs are already priced into product prices - help out the LBS perhaps but not the manufacturer, in this case Trek.

Because that's the real world mate. Who are you expecting to pay it instead ? You think Trek will ? or the LBS should ? If the bike goes bang, they need to take the bike to the dealer, or pay to get it shipped to the dealer, there has to be a cost, somewhere... I don't think it's unreasonable at all.
It would be easier of course if Fox have a location in France, but that's not the LBSs fault.

 

[Plyphon]

In the UK, that would be considered not fit for purpose under UK consumer law, even if it was purchased in person (rather than online).

In the UK, the shop would be responsible for you getting a working bike. This may include collecting the bike at the shops expense, however in reality many would just be happy to drop the bike off at the consumers expense (time, travel.).

What happens beyond that point to get you a working shock is between the retailer, the bike manufacturer and Fox. It may be that Trek sends the bike shop out a new shock. Or an entire new bike. I would be surprised if they would send it to Fox for a service, as they no doubt have shocks sitting on the shelf ready to go for warranty claims at Trek.

No idea what the law would suggest in France, though.

 

[Plyphon]

Because that's the real world mate. Who are you expecting to pay it instead ? You think Trek will ? or the LBS should ? If the bike goes bang, they need to take the bike to the dealer, or pay to get it shipped to the dealer, there has to be a cost, somewhere... I don't think it's unreasonable at all.
It would be easier of course if Fox have a location in France, but that's not the LBSs fault.

The LBS will have a warranty agreement with Trek which will include an agreement to reimburse expenses incurred during warranty claims.

 

[irie]

Because that's the real world mate. Who are you expecting to pay it instead ? You think Trek will ? or the LBS should ? If the bike goes bang, they need to take the bike to the dealer, or pay to get it shipped to the dealer, there has to be a cost, somewhere... I don't think it's unreasonable at all.
It would be easier of course if Fox have a location in France, but that's not the LBSs fault.

To the contrary, in the real world the cost of warranty claims are priced in as a component of purchase price.

There is a chain of contracts: customer with dealer, dealer with manufacturer/distributor, manufacturer with components suppliers.

This is the real world.

 

[nickf]

many would just be happy to drop the bike off at the consumers expense (time, travel).

Just to add some clarity, I have already sent a video to the LBS of the shock making its squelching noises and they have mailed me back to say that it does indeed look as if the shock is faulty. However, they have asked me to bring the bike back into the shop so that they can confirm the diagnosis and then decide how to proceed. Although the LBS is 75km away - so it will indeed cost me in time and money - I still think that's a perfectly reasonable request because they need to physically inspect the shock before they can be sure of the problem. It's just my bad that the shop is so far away (it was the only one in the locality that had the Fuel+ to test ride).

However, once the LBS has confirmed that the Fox shock is faulty I don't think it is either morally right or legally the case that I should incur any costs in actually repairing or replacing the faulty shock on my bike. This would include any postage costs to or from Fox/Trek/me involved in the process.

I initially thought that because the faulty component was a Fox product that it would be Fox's responsibility to repair or replace it. However, thanks to several helpful comments here I now understand that Trek is responsible for covering all warranty claims, but that the LBS is responsible to me the consumer for initiating the claim and implementing it to completion. From what others have said, the LBS's costs incurred will be covered by Trek.

I've copied the Trek warranty policy below, and it even looks as if I can request any Trek retailer, and not just the shop who sold me the bike, to initiate the claim with Trek (my bold lettering).

Trek/Bontrager/Electra/Diamant Limited Warranty​

We've Got You Covered
We provide a warranty against defects in materials and workmanship for all original equipment and aftermarket products, as specified below.

First Things First
Contact an authorised retailer or distributor to initiate a warranty claim. Proof of purchase is required. Click here to find a retailer near you.

Lifetime
Frame sets (frame and rigid fork), main frame and full suspension swing arms for the lifetime of the original owner
Bontrager wheels with carbon rims

2 Years
Clothing
Parts and accessories
Rear suspension linkage components, including bearings, rocker link and accompanying hardware and components
Bontrager wheels with alloy rims
Paint and transfers

 

[steve_sordy]

That warranty does not list suspension components other than the frame.

 

[irie]

That warranty does not list suspension components other than the frame.

"We provide a warranty against defects in materials and workmanship for all original equipment"

This warranty statement is a 'cover all'. There are further warranty statements for components such as motors and batteries.

 

[nickf]

That warranty does not list suspension components other than the frame.

That's what I first thought, which I reckoned can't be right, until I re-read this: We provide a warranty against defects in materials and workmanship for all original equipment

They quote the suspension linkage components separately to specify that they are not part of the frame and swing arms which carry the lifetime guarantee. All other original equipment (forks, shocks, brakes etc) benefit from the 2 year parts warranty against defects. At least, that's my reading of it!

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I rather spend $15 to ship the shock to FOX (in the US), then drive an hour each way to the shop to "confirm" diagnosis. So investing 4 hours of time, more important and not counting gas for the car.

When I had a faulty ZEB, the retailer wanted me to ship the fork to them... instead of directly to a SRAM service center. Screw em, fix'd it myself with a bit of thread-locker.

You've researched the law, but your shop says your paying for shipping... okay, so ask them about the law and why it doesn't cover the shock. You start arguing with them, your not going to get far or them be helpful in the future.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Trek, nor any equivalent bike brand, doesn't warranty anything beyond the frame, linkage and hardware specific to Trek... all the drivetrain, suspension, brakes, wheels, etc.. are warrantied by each supplier with their own warranty terms.

 

[irie]

Trek, nor any equivalent bike brand, doesn't warranty anything beyond the frame, linkage and hardware specific to Trek... all the drivetrain, suspension, brakes, wheels, etc.. are warrantied by each supplier with their own warranty terms.

In the EU where the OP resides (and also in my jurisdiction, the UK), the warranty terms are as #13 posted above.
.

 

[Weeksy]

The LBS will have a warranty agreement with Trek which will include an agreement to reimburse expenses incurred during warranty claims.

No, it really won't. Warranty in the bike industry pays at a very very low rate and will generally not cover things like postage. It barely covers a low rate of labour. It's not like a car business like Ford that's for sure. It's only recently that bike companies can cover warranty for different shops etc and it's far from all of them.

However, i don't see that we're going to agree on this, so i won't reply any more as we'll just go round in circles.

 

[urmom]

Lots of misinformation in this thread. At least in the EU:

• your contract is with the shop
• the shop owes you warranty (6months+18months), and they cannot limit this, or make you agree to anything. Mail order shops always have to pay two way transport etc.
• You are required to cooperate within reason (put bike back into box, etc.)
• If the shop has trouble with the manufacturer, it is not your problem
• The bike manufacturer does NOT owe you any warranty. Neither does any manufacturer of any component. They often do give warranty, but they get to dictate the terms.
• In practice, manufacturer warranty is only interesting where it exceeds the 2 years owed to you by the shop. (e.g. if frame break in year 3, having manufacturer warranty is great, even if you have to pay for transport and labor)

 

[irie]

No, it really won't. Warranty in the bike industry pays at a very very low rate and will generally not cover things like postage. It barely covers a low rate of labour. It's not like a car business like Ford that's for sure. It's only recently that bike companies can cover warranty for different shops etc and it's far from all of them.

However, i don't see that we're going to agree on this, so i won't reply any more as we'll just go round in circles.

As @urmom says above, it is a case of contract law which is not trumped by the financial ability or otherwise of sellers to comply with consumer contract terms.

Edit: It is absolutely the same as a car business such as Ford where the contract to buy the vehicle is with the seller who receives payment and who is contractually bound to comply with warranty, rather than with the individual component suppliers to Ford (unless the contract of sale expressly states otherwise, of course).

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

In the EU where the OP resides (and also in my jurisdiction, the UK), the warranty terms are as #13 posted above.
.

You going to hire a lawyer to fight this... shop already said he pays. I mentioned he should bring up the "law", which I'm sure the shop is aware of. At the end of the day, the solution is simple and cheap. FOX will service the shock under warranty for FREE and all you have to do is ship the shock to them.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

In the EU where the OP resides (and also in my jurisdiction, the UK), the warranty terms are as #13 posted above.
.

Nothing in those terms stipulates you won't incur "costs"... FOX WILL warranty for FREE your shock, but they will not cover shipping to a service center. They will ship it back to you for FREE as well.

 

[irie]

You going to hire a lawyer to fight this... shop already said he pays. I mentioned he should bring up the "law", which I'm sure the shop is aware of. At the end of the day, the solution is simple and cheap. FOX will service the shock under warranty for FREE and all you have to do is ship the shock to them.

The shop are wrong if they did say that^^^, but to be fair I do not know the law in Connecticut which appears to be your jurisdiction.

The solution is indeed simple and cheap, the seller (the shop) must comply with EU law.

I will not canvass this point any further.

 

[nickf]

So, thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread. The variety of opinions given shows that the situation is not clear cut to the average consumer (eg me). But I have just dropped my Fox shock off for repair under warranty, so I thought I'd share what the actual situation is, and what I've learned along the way, in the hope that it might help someone else in the same situation.

For context, I live in France so all warranties are governed by EU law. YMMV. It's also useful to note all the relevant parties here: there's me (the consumer), the LBS who sold me the bike, Trek the bike manufacturer, and Fox the manufacturer of the faulty component on the bike. Spolier alert! There's yet another relevant party, who I will disclose shortly!

If you just want to know the result, then feel free to skip to the last few paragraphs below. But for those who want to hear the full story, read on....

If you think that it is Fox who is the only party responsible for covering the warranty then it might be logical to search the internet so as to contact a Fox service centre directly. You might try foxracing.com, but that would be a mistake cos it's just clothing and apparel! Then again there's ridefox.com which is actually the correct Fox website for suspension, and from there you can link to service.ridefox.com which will tell you all about how to get your Fox product serviced if you live in the USA, Canada or the UK. Good luck finding what to do if you live anywhere else in the world, cos I couldn't!

Eventually I discovered a link at the bottom of the page, hidden below all the FAQs, for International customers. This sent me to a page of worldwide distributors, including one called Tribe Sport Group in France (hooray!!!) Sadly their website is just a B2B portal so no information there, but it did have a phone number which I called. The nice man on the phone confirmed that they were the Fox service centre for France and I could take my shock back to the LBS who would then send it on to them for the repair.

I asked if I could simply send the shock directly to them myself and he confirmed that I could by using yet another Fox web address, this time foxservice.fr. I went to this address and there is indeed an online form to fill in if you want a service or need a repair under warranty, but there are a number of questions clearly intended to filter out warranty claims that are void because the shock has not been correctly maintained, serviced, or abused etc etc. It looks like these questions are intended to be answered by the bike shop rather than the (potentially lying) consumer, so in the end I decided I'd just take it back to the shop and let them deal with it. (But there's a twist!!)

Just some extra info which might give closure to some of the debates earlier in this thread....

Before I finally found a contact number in France, I rang the Fox service centre in the UK to ask what the warranty procedure was. They confirmed that: (1) Trek - as the bike manufacturer - has no responsibility at all in the affair; (2) the faulty component is made by Fox, and Fox is responsible for repair/replacement under warranty claims; (3) my legal contract is only with the shop which sold me the bike, and they have responsibility to honour the 2 year warranty on the whole bike under EU law since they sold it to me; (4) I can choose to take the bike or shock back to the shop for them to deal with, or I can choose to send it myself directly to a Fox service centre; (5) I asked if it's the shop or the consumer who is liable for postage costs to/from Fox and he was less clear on this, saying that when he worked in a bike shop they would normally cover such nominal costs since they have already made a financial gain on the sale of the bike.

For those who favoured this "going direct" approach, note that there is an important distinction between sending an item back to Fox for a service and sending it back as a warranty claim. For the latter, Fox insists that the used item must not have voided any of its warranty criteria (eg mis-fitting, mis-use, poor maintenance, or service interval passed, etc). This is not unreasonable, and the shop can give unbiassed confirmation that the conditions have not been compromised. Obviously Fox don't care if you're sending it back for a service because it's you (and not them) that's paying the bill!

*** What finally happened! ***

The shop I bought the bike from is quite a long way away (150km round trip) but my very friendly local Trek LBS (where I bought my Rail from) is on the way and much closer, so I decided to stop by and speak with them just to get their two cents on how warranty claims actually work. I showed the salesman my bike with its squelchy shock, he called the mechanic over to have a look, the mechanic instantly confirmed it needed a repair, and without any prompting from me the salesman said they could take the shock off and send it to Fox for repair under warranty for me. All they needed was proof of purchase for the bike, and there was no mention of me being liable for postage.

I thought this was particularly generous of them since they had not sold me the bike, so they had absolutely no financial skin in the game. But the salesman said that they often send off components like shocks for warranty repairs for bikes that weren't bought at their shop, and they're happy to do so.

So I am now a happy bunny and just have to be patient for 4 weeks or so before I get my shock back (yes, the french service centre has currently a 4 week processing delay!).

 

[Ndanger]

That is great news that a shop is taking good care of the situation for you and has a solution.

This doesn't apply in France but the discussion had me wondering what the rules would be like in the US. Is it legal for Fox (or the shop) to make you pay shipping? In the US: Yes

Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, manufacturers must honor their written warranty terms, but: They are not required to pay shipping unless their warranty explicitly says so They are allowed to require the consumer to cover shipping one or both ways. Labor and transport costs may be excluded unless stated otherwise.
Fox’s warranty language, typically says, Manufacturing defects are covered

Shipping to Fox is the customer’s responsibility Return shipping is sometimes covered, sometimes not, depending on region and channel So legally, Fox is on solid ground.

 

[irie]

.

So I am now a happy bunny ...

Pleased for you.

 

[Dax]

See this thread on why I now have a kitsuma coil instead of a float x

Fox reliability

How has everyone found fox reliability? Leaving aside the famous X2 issues, what are the rest of the range like? I’m not too impressed right now, the Float X on my Shuttle started leaking at about 500 miles and was warrantied back in April. It started leaking again after another 300 miles and...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[nickf]

In the end it's no big deal for me to pay any postage costs or not. And as one commentator said earlier, better to pay 15 euros postage than waste 4 hours and petrol costs driving 150km back and forth to the bike shop. I agree! (Although it is actually quite a nice drive through pretty countryside )

But it's the principle that bugs me! And I recognise that some warranty terms might specifically (and presumably legally?) state that postage and also the labour costs in repairing a faulty product are the responsibility of the customer.

But WHY??? The customer has done nothing wrong! It's the manufacturer that has made a faulty component that prevents him from using the product for which he has paid a lot of money. The manufacturer didn't do it deliberately, of course, but they are the only one responsible for the product that doesn't work. Why should it cost the customer a single penny to have the situation remedied? Why is it legally required of the manufacturer to repair/replace the faulty part, but they can legally pass any labour charges involved in the repair back on to the customer? It might be the law, but how is that ethical???

Just saying!