First Aid on the Trail. How do we plan for that?
- Thread starter Stihldog
- Start date
I have been a member of a Mountain Rescue Team in Cumbria for many years, and whilst What3Words does sometimes work, there have been numerous instances when, for whatever reason, it has been totally useless.
As an example, on a recent callout we were given a What3Words location by the police which turned out to be in Africa!
Don't trust a lot of that type of things , google maps is a prime example.
Believe it or not, there have been a couple of instances of searches of the Scafell Pike area for people who thought they could navigate up it with Google Maps!
Plummet
Flash Git
I carry nothing but have a first aid kit back at the car.
Usually we patch up dudes, carry them out, drive cars in with what ever is laying around to get back to the car.
The latest one was a broken ankle. Carried him down the track back to a fire road. One the E bike dudes ripped back and got the car and we shipped him off to hospital.
Usually we patch up dudes, carry them out, drive cars in with what ever is laying around to get back to the car.
The latest one was a broken ankle. Carried him down the track back to a fire road. One the E bike dudes ripped back and got the car and we shipped him off to hospital.
Once met a couple who asked if they could drive up Ben Nevis. Before google maps .
Waynemarlow
E*POWAH Elite
I would guess the old chinese whispers thing, by the time the 3 words had been passed on a few times, the spelling had changed of the words.
Bontee
Active member
One addi
Surgical glue is ideal,I used it many times whilst carrying out surgery in my dental practice,but I use superglue on myself routinely at home on cuts and scrapes ,it is perfectly safe .
Agreed,a tube of superglue (cyano acrylate ) is perfect for closing cuts and coating abrasions.
Surgical glue is ideal,I used it many times whilst carrying out surgery in my dental practice,but I use superglue on myself routinely at home on cuts and scrapes ,it is perfectly safe .
RickBullotta
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
@Stihldog - should be this;
View attachment 162600
Also, thanks to all for the discussion, I've added tape to my pack, and this app to my phones
The most important button there is "Uninstall"
- Thread starter
- #40
Today I’ll ride with a new addition to my kit. There’s been a few good suggestions in here, such as medical glue and Benedril which hardly take up any room at all.
The bear spray is different for me but the area I’ve been riding and working in is a high traffic area for bears.
I haven’t heard of any bear attacks on this mountain but I see them almost daily this time of the year. Since I ride and work on these trails solo I don’t want to be a statistic, or lunch, for our furry friends.
I think this was the guy I almost rear ended a few days ago. Around a corner and slammed on my brakes to avoid any contact. 5’-8’ away when he quickly spun around and fake-charged me. He slowly continued on but I kept him in sight from a safe distance. It was like he didn’t care.
The bears migrate up and down this mountain for food (berries, grass, grubs, salmon etc.) There are 3 big bears in this area (that I know of). Food is their goal but during mating season their behaviour can change and territorial instincts kick in.
I’m not going to ride with bear spray all the time. I don’t need to. There’s 70+ trails on this mountain. There is a gun range on one side of the mountain but the noise doesn’t seem to deter them.
Anyway, just another reason to carry a first aid kit.
The bear spray is different for me but the area I’ve been riding and working in is a high traffic area for bears.
I haven’t heard of any bear attacks on this mountain but I see them almost daily this time of the year. Since I ride and work on these trails solo I don’t want to be a statistic, or lunch, for our furry friends.
I think this was the guy I almost rear ended a few days ago. Around a corner and slammed on my brakes to avoid any contact. 5’-8’ away when he quickly spun around and fake-charged me. He slowly continued on but I kept him in sight from a safe distance. It was like he didn’t care.
The bears migrate up and down this mountain for food (berries, grass, grubs, salmon etc.) There are 3 big bears in this area (that I know of). Food is their goal but during mating season their behaviour can change and territorial instincts kick in.
I’m not going to ride with bear spray all the time. I don’t need to. There’s 70+ trails on this mountain. There is a gun range on one side of the mountain but the noise doesn’t seem to deter them.
Anyway, just another reason to carry a first aid kit.
Don't you wrestle them Grizzlies like Andy Robbins did with Hercules. Your forgetting the Defibrillator and the Hamish Mackinnes stretcher.
- Thread starter
- #42
I’m pretty sure I’d have an allergic reaction to their fur, then I’d have to use up all my Benadryl.
As a paramedic, we regularly have to follow directions to a What3Words location. Personally I think it works very well. If you slightly get the word wrong it’ll plot somewhere completely different (often abroad) so quite obvious.
I also only carry a small first aid kit with the basics. I used to have a huge one complete with CAT tourniquet, cannulation kit, dressings that clot, etc (I have a very large storeroom to stock it from), but have pared it down to pretty much tape, plasters, some form of bandage or 2 and - knife/shears.
In refer to Cedric Gracia I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of people would not have been able to do that either through pain, or frame of mind.
I also only carry a small first aid kit with the basics. I used to have a huge one complete with CAT tourniquet, cannulation kit, dressings that clot, etc (I have a very large storeroom to stock it from
), but have pared it down to pretty much tape, plasters, some form of bandage or 2 and - knife/shears. In refer to Cedric Gracia I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of people would not have been able to do that either through pain, or frame of mind.
- Thread starter
- #45
I have a tremendous amount of respect for paramedics, first responders and search and rescue (SARS). Their experiences are sometimes weekly, daily or hourly. I can’t imagine the amount of training required. A friend is/was a paramedic. When he decided to share an experience with me (rarely) I realized that I’m not wired for that profession. Some of his stories were heartbreaking.As a paramedic, we regularly have to follow directions to a What3Words location. Personally I think it works very well. If you slightly get the word wrong it’ll plot somewhere completely different (often abroad) so quite obvious.
I also only carry a small first aid kit with the basics. I used to have a huge one complete with CAT tourniquet, cannulation kit, dressings that clot, etc (I have a very large storeroom to stock it from
In refer to Cedric Gracia I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of people would not have been able to do that either through pain, or frame of mind.
Our training in the logging industry focused, not only on immediate attention, but evacuation. A remote location adds another level care , which some of us MTB’ers can find ourselves in. So I’m an advocate for some basic first aid training for this hobby. The mechanism of injury can be different than a vehicle accident, but similar techniques can apply.
Just have to hope it's not you or someone with you and you can't help. I've seen a medic get stuck on a vessel and froze a diver took over and did cpr.
- Thread starter
- #47
It can be a relief though when someone with more experience shows up to help. There has been some modifications to the cpr technique lately that I don’t know or understand. But almost any attempt at cpr can be helpful.
For us solo riders …well that’s a different responsibility.…with sometimes different outcomes. We just need to be prepared as best we can.
@Nicho ..while I'm not huge fan of your brand of humour ..( we can't all be ) ..a massive respect for the the fact that you are a Mountain Rescue volunteer..
While nowhere near your level of commitment I did a lot of volunteer Marshaling back in the day on Kielder Marathon Mtb events which was a charity event with proceeds to Northern Air Ambulance ..organised by the now retired owner of The Bike Place Kielder ..Ian Bell.
Well you never know when you might need a ride !
As far as first aid go I always carry a fairly basic pack ..including a field surgeon table / scalpel / saw etc ....
While nowhere near your level of commitment I did a lot of volunteer Marshaling back in the day on Kielder Marathon Mtb events which was a charity event with proceeds to Northern Air Ambulance ..organised by the now retired owner of The Bike Place Kielder ..Ian Bell.
Well you never know when you might need a ride !
As far as first aid go I always carry a fairly basic pack ..including a field surgeon table / scalpel / saw etc ....
I've watched a lot of Mash , ER ,Holly City and Casualty Neil , and learned absolutely nothing.@Nicho ..while I'm not huge fan of your brand of humour ..( we can't all be ) ..a massive respect for the the fact that you are a Mountain Rescue volunteer..
While nowhere near your level of commitment I did a lot of volunteer Marshaling back in the day on Kielder Marathon Mtb events which was a charity event with proceeds to Northern Air Ambulance ..organised by the now retired owner of The Bike Place Kielder ..Ian Bell.
Well you never know when you might need a ride !
As far as first aid go I always carry a fairly basic pack ..including a field surgeon table / scalpel / saw etc ....
I watched the same documentaries. I think I crash a lot as they've imprinted on my subconscious that if you have enough accidents, you're guaranteed to meet a stunning blond with great ... Attributes..
More likely someone like myself will come along. Folk usually bet better as soon as I try to put the lips on them , works every time
- Thread starter
- #52
Plummet
Flash Git
I always take a mini first aid kit with me. I also have it with me for the commute under the week, just in case.
As an aside, in my current part of the world you have to complete a first-aid course in order to get your driving licence, which is a clever way of having most of the population have at least some basic knowledge.
As an aside, in my current part of the world you have to complete a first-aid course in order to get your driving licence, which is a clever way of having most of the population have at least some basic knowledge.
Following on from my long ago Mountain Leader stuff I have a reasonable idea as to what works & what doesn't. What to carry & when to phone 999. What's your take though on super glue vis-à-vis spray on plaster. I know the probable answer is it depends but just in general. I also carry a Quick Clot type bandage & wonder if that would be a better bet.
Finally the initial problem is cleaning. I sometimes carry a cleaning spray & always atiseptic wipes. Any comments on that type of stuff?
- Thread starter
- #56
I’ve never used a glue for cuts, punctures, nor the “second-skin” spray for scrapes or small cuts. I think I would leave that up to the professionals as a final treatment. I have used butterfly bandages before.
Small disposable medical wipes are a good idea (2-6) for cleaning before applying any dressings. Road rash or scraps are fairly common. The size of that injury can determine whether it needs treatment immediately or can wait until you get home. Cleaning and covering the injured area is a good idea.
I don’t know much about a blood-clotting bandage. I usually cover and apply pressure.
Burns and crush injuries can be a whole other treatment but unlikely in our environment. But applying C-spine and immobilization can be important.
Bontee
Active member
Hello Ragnor,I believe “superglue”cyanoacrylate was used extensively during the vietnam war and sprayed directly on injuries then wrapped in clingfilm,it proved invaluable in blast injuries where massive bleeding could be arrested quickly due to it’s ability to set instantly in the presence of moisture,in these cases…blood.
It (as far as I am aware is antibacterial ,since nothing can live in it!)
So for me,cyanoacrylate every time.
I sliced my thumb badly with a box cutter some years back,normally would have needed sutures,but I filled the wound with good old superglue and wrapped it in a normal plaster.This obviously leads to the plaster becoming securely fixed to the thumb and the wound .By the time the plaster fell off the wound was virtually healed .
Another interesting feature is that when wounds are glued or coated there is a significant and instant reduction in pain.
Now Just to be clear ,what I did in my surgery and how I treated myself in day to day situations are different ,but it doesn’t change the effectiveness of the product.
All the best
- Thread starter
- #58
I’ve never been treated, nor have I treated a wound with super glue or crazy glue. I’ve heard that it is an effective way to close wounds. I guess I don’t know enough about this type of treatment, but my wife probably does.
My leaking injuries have occurred in hockey, the logging industry, and this sport. (No box-cutter injuries yet
). Injuries to myself or others have never been perfect. I don’t know how I could apply a glue in those conditions or situations. The application of glue was never included in my first aid training. I’ll probably be schooled on the effectiveness of glue, for closing wounds, by my wife (nurse who has seen numerous results of motorcycle accidents.).
But in the forest, or on the trail, we don’t always have the luxury of a well equipped or sterile environment. Sometimes you do what you need to do. We usually know if a visit to the hospital is necessary for our injuries.
In almost all cases, that I’ve been involved in, first responders or doctors have undone all the measures I have initially taken …probably for a better look or assessment, and likely for further treatment.
It would depend on what you cut . A leg you would have two hands to use , an arm you have one hand. I can just about picture it now trying to get the top off the super glue ,blood everywhere feeling dizzy and sick . Terminator and Rambo movies make it look easy. That's it I'm never going out on that dammed bike again. Then again The Dangerous Kitchen . I have a few doctor and vet friends I will run it by them out of curiosity.I’ve never been treated, nor have I treated a wound with super glue or crazy glue. I’ve heard that it is an effective way to close wounds. I guess I don’t know enough about this type of treatment, but my wife probably does.
My leaking injuries have occurred in hockey, the logging industry, and this sport. (No box-cutter injuries yet
The application of glue was never included in my first aid training. I’ll probably be schooled on the effectiveness of glue, for closing wounds, by my wife (nurse who has seen numerous results of motorcycle accidents.).
But in the forest, or on the trail, we don’t always have the luxury of a well equipped or sterile environment. Sometimes you do what you need to do. We usually know if a visit to the hospital is necessary for our injuries.
In almost all cases, that I’ve been involved in, first responders or doctors have undone all the measures I have initially taken …probably for a better look or assessment, and likely for further treatment.
Jeff McD
Well-known member
Lots of experience using superglue to close cuts instead of sutures. A few tips: Warning: it's going to sting pretty good for a minute, warn the weak hearted. Don't expect it to seal immediately in 30 seconds. Wetness (blood/sweat) slows it down so you have to hold cuts together for up to five minutes. If it still won't seal, just repeat. I've never had it not seal the second time I put some more superglue and held it another five minutes.
I never use the superglue immediately on the trail since all you have to do then is stop the bleeding. So just slapping on 1-2 layers of Coban snugly around the wound will be the most effective, and also will prevent a hematoma which will take an additional 2 wks to resolve. Then finish your ride. Go home, wash it out good, then use the superglue to close a clean wound. For scrubbing wounds the antiseptic wound washes in drugstores or Amazon that have 4% lidocaine in them really takes the sting out of scrubbing it after the first few seconds. Great stuff. These superficial cuts have never gotten infected in my experience. Deeper wounds I scrub and just leave them open to heal more slowly, since greater chance of getting infected, unless you have doxycycline to jump on right away.
Be aware that mountain bikers are usually sweaty in summer months and Band-Aids just won't stick. Coban wrap is superior. I don't even carry Band-Aids anymore. Just two different sizes of Coban. The 3 inch wide roll of coban could also make a tourniquet but I've never had to use one.
I never use the superglue immediately on the trail since all you have to do then is stop the bleeding. So just slapping on 1-2 layers of Coban snugly around the wound will be the most effective, and also will prevent a hematoma which will take an additional 2 wks to resolve. Then finish your ride. Go home, wash it out good, then use the superglue to close a clean wound. For scrubbing wounds the antiseptic wound washes in drugstores or Amazon that have 4% lidocaine in them really takes the sting out of scrubbing it after the first few seconds. Great stuff. These superficial cuts have never gotten infected in my experience. Deeper wounds I scrub and just leave them open to heal more slowly, since greater chance of getting infected, unless you have doxycycline to jump on right away.
Be aware that mountain bikers are usually sweaty in summer months and Band-Aids just won't stick. Coban wrap is superior. I don't even carry Band-Aids anymore. Just two different sizes of Coban. The 3 inch wide roll of coban could also make a tourniquet but I've never had to use one.
