EP 801 no difference in Trail vs Boost mode

[vman]

I have an EP8 bike with Trail set to assist 7 and max power at 85 nm and Boost set to assist 10 and max power at 85 nm. I feel no difference in assist going up steep climbs between Trail and Boost mode. I weigh 215 lbs so to get me up steep hills requires a lot of effort perhaps I am already maxing out the assist in Trail so boost does nothing ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Note on my Bosch bike the difference between emtb and trail on the same climbs is material.

Thanks

Vm

 

[Scford]

I didn’t notice much difference with my ep8 either. I de tuned my trail mode to be 6 or 7 assist with 60nm torque. I wanted to save battery and also have a noticeable difference between modes. I quite enjoyed it like that for what it’s worth. I’d say just play with the settings and see what you like for the riding you do.

 

[Svarun]

You said it yourself that you set both trail and boost at 85nm, which is max. What huge difference are you expecting then?

Trail mode on my EP801 bike is set at 55nm, and switching to Boost which is 85nm is a huge difference

 

[John_likes_bikes]

With max power the same on both settings no, you won't notice much of a difference. The difference in assist level 7 and 10 is how that power is applied and you'll only notice that as your cadence changes. If you can watch the power level graph on your display in both settings, boost will come on fast than trail.

 

[steve_sordy]

What you call "assist" Shimano call "Assist Character". It is little to do with power, more to do with how fast the power comes in, up to the maximum power that you have set for that mode (Eco, Trail, Boost)

When I was setting up my bike, it came with Assist Character at 5. Once I started experimenting with it, I discovered that it brought the bike alive, particularly when coming out of a fast bend, or starting half way up a climb. Initially, I decided that 10 was way too much because I was getting wheel spin all the time. 8 was still too much, so I went for 7. But within a few rides I set it to 8 in Eco and Trail. I set it to 10 when in Boost, although I will now revisit that because this chat has reminded me of a few loose climbs that I am struggling to get re-started on when in Boost.

 

[vman]

You said it yourself that you set both trail and boost at 85nm, which is max. What huge difference are you expecting then?

Trail mode on my EP801 bike is set at 55nm, and switching to Boost which is 85nm is a huge difference

EP 801 bikes can be tuned to have a way earlier assist ramp than an EP 8 bike and rival the output of a bosch CX bike. The EP801 is a totally different tuned motor than an EP 8. Assist Character is supposed to determine how much rider input effort is necessary to obtain full motor assist output. For example, try setting your bike to 85 NM for both Trail and Boost mode and set an Assist Character of 2 for Trail and 10 for boost and go up a steep hill. You will find you have to work very hard even with 85 NM of output to get the motor to assist you.

 

[vman]

What you call "assist" Shimano call "Assist Character". It is little to do with power, more to do with how fast the power comes in, up to the maximum power that you have set for that mode (Eco, Trail, Boost)

When I was setting up my bike, it came with Assist Character at 5. Once I started experimenting with it, I discovered that it brought the bike alive, particularly when coming out of a fast bend, or starting half way up a climb. Initially, I decided that 10 was way too much because I was getting wheel spin all the time. 8 was still too much, so I went for 7. But within a few rides I set it to 8 in Eco and Trail. I set it to 10 when in Boost, although I will now revisit that because this chat has reminded me of a few loose climbs that I am struggling to get re-started on when in Boost.

Steve,

I have 2 settings for Assist - Assist Character (AC) and Assist Start (AS) - AC is suppose to determine how much rider input is needed to ramp up the motor to full power and AS determines how much power you get when you first step on the pedals, the later controls wheels spin when trying to get restarted on a climb....do you folks have the same program parameters in teh UK as us in ths states?

 

[vman]

With max power the same on both settings no, you won't notice much of a difference. The difference in assist level 7 and 10 is how that power is applied and you'll only notice that as your cadence changes. If you can watch the power level graph on your display in both settings, boost will come on fast than trail.

Going up a steep hill with the same cadence switching from Trail to Boost I feel nothing has changed on an EP 8 bike on a EP 801 bike(Trail to Boost) or Bosch CX bike (EMTB to Turbo) it is a significant difference. Also, for even steep climbs I rarely ever climb in the biggest cog in the rear on any bike but a EP 8 powered bike its that big a difference in relative assist .

 

[Svarun]

EP 801 bikes can be tuned to have a way earlier assist ramp than an EP 8 bike and rival the output of a bosch CX bike. The EP801 is a totally different tuned motor than an EP 8. Assist Character is supposed to determine how much rider input effort is necessary to obtain full motor assist output. For example, try setting your bike to 85 NM for both Trail and Boost mode and set an Assist Character of 2 for Trail and 10 for boost and go up a steep hill. You will find you have to work very hard even with 85 NM of output to get the motor to assist you.

No need to overthink this, 85nm is 85nm, assist character just describes the curve between your power and motor power. So lower the number, flatter the curve is, which means you need to put in more to get full 85 nm. Higher the number, steeper the curve is, which means full motor power is available "sooner"...

Having two settings, where both are 85nm and only differ by 3 out of 10 on power availability just wont produce much of a difference. Which I guess you noticed yourself

 

[steve_sordy]

Steve,

I have 2 settings for Assist - Assist Character (AC) and Assist Start (AS) - AC is suppose to determine how much rider input is needed to ramp up the motor to full power and AS determines how much power you get when you first step on the pedals, the later controls wheels spin when trying to get restarted on a climb....do you folks have the same program parameters in teh UK as us in ths states?

I don't know whether the UK has the same program parameters as in the USA, but it woul,d make sense from a global manufacturing viewpoint that they would be the same. I know that you have a higher max speed (lucky you), but apart from that - why would they be different?

I too have an assist start. Mine goes from 1-5 and after a few experiments quickly set it to 5. It just controls how fast the power comes in after first applying torque to the pedals, not how much power. I wanted it immediately, which I found very useful on climbs.

 

[vman]

FWIW - Talked to Shimano - so for EP8 (not 801) if you are a larger rider (ie 200 lbs plus) going up a steep 20% slope you will likely maximize the 85 NM output in Trail mode with assist character set to 7 so switching to Boost mode with the assist 10 (default) makes no difference in perceived assistance. However, on gently sloping trails going from assist character 7 to 10 (Boost) for larger riders (like me) will immediately feel a increase in assist as we have not yet peaked the engine assist output in Trail mode. Lighter riders will likely continue to feel the differences between boost and Trail on steep slopes as they don't need to input the same level of force to climb hills as larger riders so are much less likely to already be at peak assist under Trail mode.