E-Sommet bearing numbers and torque values (incl headset bearing info and rear thru axle spec)
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
Master Link
Member
I have edited my post to include a picture showing revised torque values based on the diagram provided by Stuart569, earlier in this post.
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- Thread starter
- #34
@R120 It'll be a simple swap mate. Just take your time, use decent tools and take care to lay the pieces out in a way you'll remember how they go back paying especial attention to how the main pivot assembly is configured.
Can you sticky this thread? I've just added headset bearing info to the OP
Can you sticky this thread? I've just added headset bearing info to the OP
RocketMagnet
Well-known member
Some confusion here as we have varying values sent by Vitus and the original EngDiag Torque values do not align with the "latest" schematic but they are reasonably close and +/- a few Nm at such low Torques doesn't matter. I did notice on the original drawing they did blank out specific tables of Torque values for some reason.
I think the Horst Link where the Seat Stay and Chain Stays connect should be 6Nm to 10Nm not 19Nm however. I also think where the seat stays connect to the rocker they should be 10Nm.
The Original Drawing definitely lists ASEE-SNT @10Nm which is all the Seat Stay and Chainstay Horst Bolts.
Ultimately this needs a drawing like I've got for other bikes, each bolt with an arrow pointing to it with a Torque value.. just like this drawing for my SCruz:
I think the Horst Link where the Seat Stay and Chain Stays connect should be 6Nm to 10Nm not 19Nm however. I also think where the seat stays connect to the rocker they should be 10Nm.
The Original Drawing definitely lists ASEE-SNT @10Nm which is all the Seat Stay and Chainstay Horst Bolts.
Ultimately this needs a drawing like I've got for other bikes, each bolt with an arrow pointing to it with a Torque value.. just like this drawing for my SCruz:
- Thread starter
- #36
Yeah, in the PDF diagram three posts above this one it's spec'd at 6Nm. You get used to how tight pivot hardware needs to be after a whilehaving done loads n loads 6-10Nm would seem way closer to what you'd expect from smaller horst link fastening hardware and bearings.19Nm there would indeed be very unusual. similar horst link hardware on varios frame is generally in the 7-9Nm range
I updated the original post to include that PDF.
yeah, There's far too much conflicting info out there. but at least we're not paying SantaCruz prices so it levels out somewhat, eh?
Having said that, YT are pretty good at putting torque values on the actual frames/bolts
Master Link
Member
Hopefully, this is now correct.
Hi all, getting round to changing my main pivot, have taken the first screw out but the the next part is solid and can not remove, the inner hex is stripped, any suggestions. have added a pic showing which part. also what part number is this as need a new one
Stuart569
Well-known member
It's not marked on the drawing I would contact Vitus direct.
- Thread starter
- #40
Vitus E-Sommet Main Pivot Bolt Kit | Chain Reaction
Vitus E-Sommet Main Pivot Bolt Kit - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles
www.chainreactioncycles.com
Stuart569
Well-known member
Are you talking about the part circled red in below dwg?
- Thread starter
- #42
That's the expander spacer (it has no hex). it simply stops the axle coming loose when the M6 bolt is tightened down on it.
I'd assumed he meant the hex interface on the actual axle (marked SEE - MAX in the diagram) underneath the expander bung was rounded.
Strange if it is. (and it wasn't you who damaged it)
I'd assumed he meant the hex interface on the actual axle (marked SEE - MAX in the diagram) underneath the expander bung was rounded.
Strange if it is. (and it wasn't you who damaged it)
Stuart569
Well-known member
Aye it sounds like you know exactly what he is on aboot and I dinnae!?
gtaadicto
Member
I checked the bearings for the first time on my E-Sommet VR, bought in March 2019. At least 7 bearings are totally dead (2x6900, 2x6901, 3x6802). The 6902 bearings seem fine. Now I know why my rear suspension's small bump sensitivity sucked...
Ordered new Enduro ABEC-3 bearings.
Ordered new Enduro ABEC-3 bearings.
Maybe one for the very experienced guys. So had all bearings changed in february, bike was returned to crc for motor issue in march. Shop who fitted new bearings used enduro max bearings,
Ive done 1300 miles on them bearings since. Mostly thru summer and then the last 4months in shite conditions. Stripped the bike down and found alot of them dry/lacking grease.
Regreased most of them and running ok. Main pivots are fooked.
But cleaned and regreased them to get me another few weeks.
Bought some max enduro bearings again but removed the seals before fitting and was disappointed with how liitle grease was in there.
So i have bought some lanoguard marine grease and packed the shizz out of them with that.
Am i wasting my time? Or is it a case of replacing bearings every year?
Btw i wash the bike with bucket of water and brushes and sponge and a rinse with low pressure garden hose, after every ride when its wet and mucky.
Any thoughts or ideas welcome
Ive done 1300 miles on them bearings since. Mostly thru summer and then the last 4months in shite conditions. Stripped the bike down and found alot of them dry/lacking grease.
Regreased most of them and running ok. Main pivots are fooked.
But cleaned and regreased them to get me another few weeks.
Bought some max enduro bearings again but removed the seals before fitting and was disappointed with how liitle grease was in there.
So i have bought some lanoguard marine grease and packed the shizz out of them with that.
Am i wasting my time? Or is it a case of replacing bearings every year?
Btw i wash the bike with bucket of water and brushes and sponge and a rinse with low pressure garden hose, after every ride when its wet and mucky.
Any thoughts or ideas welcome
RocketMagnet
Well-known member
Some bearings are designed around a specific quantity of grease and overfilling can in fact kill them.
However as these bearing don't rapidly rotate and are load bearing you can pack them out with a marine style grease which can help, its a good idea not to mix greases so best to thoroughly clean them out with a solvent first if you don't know what's in them.
MAX just means the whole race is full with ball bearings with no gaps (Maximum Balls).. it doesn't mean max performance/endurance etc.
Yes MAX are the correct type for load bearing bearings.
Main way to kill bearings prematurely is to damage them when you put them in so why you should press them in and not use a hammer etc. Another classic reason is to over torque the pivot pins onto the faces which can kill them really quickly as it crushes and deforms the race as the tolerance's are so tight.... though going too low can also damage them early with lateral movement... so use a Torque Wrench.
Other than the obvious poor conditions and water ingress you should keep a closer eye on them and give them a periodic clean, pull the pivots and a full 360+++++ spin with your fingers (as they just rock in normal operation) to work the grease around and change which balls are sitting where in the race.
I've had bikes where bearing last years and others just a few months... it's just life. A big tell tale sign IME is a slight binding/creaking/cracking sound as the pivot pin rotates inside the bearing because the bearing isn't rotating properly so the pivot rotates inside it.
Generally if I get a failed/failing bearing I replace it.. repacking with grease or worse greasing up the pivot pin is simply hiding the fault as you can't undo the damage.
However as these bearing don't rapidly rotate and are load bearing you can pack them out with a marine style grease which can help, its a good idea not to mix greases so best to thoroughly clean them out with a solvent first if you don't know what's in them.
MAX just means the whole race is full with ball bearings with no gaps (Maximum Balls).. it doesn't mean max performance/endurance etc.
Yes MAX are the correct type for load bearing bearings.
Main way to kill bearings prematurely is to damage them when you put them in so why you should press them in and not use a hammer etc. Another classic reason is to over torque the pivot pins onto the faces which can kill them really quickly as it crushes and deforms the race as the tolerance's are so tight.... though going too low can also damage them early with lateral movement... so use a Torque Wrench.
Other than the obvious poor conditions and water ingress you should keep a closer eye on them and give them a periodic clean, pull the pivots and a full 360+++++ spin with your fingers (as they just rock in normal operation) to work the grease around and change which balls are sitting where in the race.
I've had bikes where bearing last years and others just a few months... it's just life. A big tell tale sign IME is a slight binding/creaking/cracking sound as the pivot pin rotates inside the bearing because the bearing isn't rotating properly so the pivot rotates inside it.
Generally if I get a failed/failing bearing I replace it.. repacking with grease or worse greasing up the pivot pin is simply hiding the fault as you can't undo the damage.
- Thread starter
- #47
No
This may still be your issue.
How long do you spend cleaning the bike? and do you use hot water at all?
Rinsing with a low pressure cold water garden hose can still mean dumping a lot of water onto the bike.
Try using a HOT water hose with a variable head. It's massively more effective at removing debris so you can use it far more sparingly than a cold water hose.
Also make sure you're hand washing the bike with HOT soapy water
First of all wet the bike with the hot hose removing any large clumps of mud as you go. I find a fine jet (fairly high pressure) will remove most and wet the whole bike ready for hand washing in roughly 20 seconds. Just be careful not to point directly at any hearings or the motor.
Next wash the whole bike with a big soft brush and HOT lathered soapy water. - this shoyuld take no longer than 5 minutes including scrubbing the rims/tyres and drivetrain.
The bike should look clean all over before rinsing with clean HOT water. and seeing as you're only rinsing off dirty soapy water this is only 10-15seconds using the hose.
Next. Let the bike drip dry for a min or two and dry the frame/wheels, contact points and chain/drivetrain with a dry clean(ish) rag.
Next lube your chain making sure to remove any excess lube with an old rag
The whole process from manky to clean and lubed should be well less than 10 minutes. I see far too many folk spend way too long washing their bikes and this is the biggest cause IMO of bearings becoming dry
Don't wet wash it at all after dryer rides, but still check it over and wipe it down, especially the drivetrain
Thanks rocketmagnet and gary for replies.
Yes i use torque wrench and bearing press, i use hot water in bucket and sponge and brushes but i rinse with cold water and wipe with microfibre cloth. Wash time is around 10mins depending on how mucky then 5min doing drive train.
The rinsing is with a finer spray and it literally a few seconds to get soap off.
Yes if its dry rides i only do drive train.
As for these new bearings i wouldnt say they are packed with balls there is a gap not quite big enough for a ball at one point.
I guess its going to be probably twice a year inspection and grease.
Yes i use torque wrench and bearing press, i use hot water in bucket and sponge and brushes but i rinse with cold water and wipe with microfibre cloth. Wash time is around 10mins depending on how mucky then 5min doing drive train.
The rinsing is with a finer spray and it literally a few seconds to get soap off.
Yes if its dry rides i only do drive train.
As for these new bearings i wouldnt say they are packed with balls there is a gap not quite big enough for a ball at one point.
I guess its going to be probably twice a year inspection and grease.
So planning on doing full bearing and hardware change in the spring, but want to get ahead of myself and order all the bits now - what are peoples view on the best bearings to get? Can see various options out there including the OEM kit via CRC, but looking to explore what the best option is.
Master Link
Member
You will probably get several recommendations here, I have used Enduro and the CRC bearings and find the CRC last the same as the Enduro and are less expensive.
I'm looking at replacing frame bearings (just did main pivots last year) and been on kinetics site.
Looked at the first bearings 6900 and there's different ones, should I just stick with the LLU MAX thruout?
I Also priced thru chain reaction the die presses needed to do the frame and it came to £80+ that's without the bar kit at £59...
Any links to a reasonable kit that covers all the frame and wheels ?
Looked at the first bearings 6900 and there's different ones, should I just stick with the LLU MAX thruout?
I Also priced thru chain reaction the die presses needed to do the frame and it came to £80+ that's without the bar kit at £59...
Any links to a reasonable kit that covers all the frame and wheels ?
Master Link
Member
I bought this kit from Amazon really well made and does all my bearings.
- Thread starter
- #53
Yeah. That kit will install all your bearings (including hub and BB bearings) but not remove them.
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- Thread starter
- #54
TBF if they're good quality £80 is actually reasonable for all the removal presses needed. Got a link to what you're thinking of buying?
Kinetics own kit is really nice to use and great quality and should last you a lifetime (for multiple bikes) but pricy.
RapidRacerProducts Bike Bearing Kit | Chain Reaction
RapidRacerProducts Bike Bearing Kit - Lowest Prices and FREE shipping available from The World's largest online bike store - Chain Reaction Cycles
www.chainreactioncycles.com
Cool the jets.
Just found this on kinetics site.....
www.kineticbikebearings.com
Says 16 bearings tho.
Any ideas where the extra 2 come from?
Just found this on kinetics site.....
Frame Pivot Bearing Kit | Vitus E-Sommet / E-Escarpe | 2018 - 2020
This listing is for a full set of Frame Pivot Bearings only (16 Bearings). No other hardware such as nuts, bolts, washers will be supplied.Any pictures indicated in this listing is for reference to the year/design of frame in question.Please click into this product and read the full description...
www.kineticbikebearings.com
Any ideas where the extra 2 come from?
Master Link
Member
I would be interested to know how this kit will remove the bearings in the rear triangle since they are back-2-back.
- Thread starter
- #60
Blind bearing puller