Dengfu E22 Frame Thread

[bram.biesiekierski]

Like @bram.biesiekierski I'm also in Australia. Ordered E10 from Dengfu at end of March, frame arrived a couple weeks ago, then wheelset last week. Still waiting on m510 and battery, though have a couple of in-country tracked packages that I'm hoping will be those last two.

Although I ordered a lighter, lower-capacity 2nd battery (48V 12Ah) from Hipack Battery Store on Aliexpress in early April and it arrived a couple weeks later! (NB: this is for the E10 / not sure if same battery fits E22 frame)

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

@bram.biesiekierski did Melody give you all the tracking numbers, or did you need to chase them up for it?

Initially, Melody told me there was a hold up with the motor, and that they were making frame still. She said she would update me when they shipped.

So I waited patiently. Then the frame just arrived at my door out of the blue. So I contacted Melody to let her know it had arrived safe, but that I was still waiting on motor and battery. She then said they had just been posted, and gave me the tracking numbers.

The tracking for one was already in country by that stage. And the tracking for the other just says tracking info submitted or something like that. It hasn't changed since then.

The one that is in country has passed customs now.

 

[djol]

Thanks Bram / just heard back from Melody with final two tracking numbers and the motor is on board for delivery today, and the battery somewhere on the Australian side of Sydney customs.

Just for other Australians' reference, this is my order / shipping / delivery timeline to Australia / Tas:

- March 31 - ordered & paid
- Late April - Early May - various parts shipped
- 8 May - frameset delivered
- 19 May - wheelset delivered
- 24 May - m510 motor delivered
- 24 May - battery cleared Sydney customs

Communication from Melody/Dengfu was always excellent / highly recommend them.

 

[Mabman]

Battery cases are the same for both frames. There are a plethora of that style case batteries on AliExpress/Baba in different ah ratings and compared to what companies like Bosch/Specialized etc. that demand a thousand + USD can be considered a good deal. However without knowing what cells are on board as well as quality of the BMS which can vary widely it is a bit of a crap shoot. So Caveat Emptor.

Another thing is that several years ago when doing research about a deluxe battery pack for the M600 I was led to believe that the BMS had to speak well with the CanBus feature? I ended up with a UART M620 so didn't consider that when ordering mine.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Who knows what the go is with dodgy sellers on aliexpress???

I ordered a 104 bcd spider and chainring to suit the m620. The seller marked it as posted. They now left me messages saying that they don't have the chainring in stock. And offered me a different size. (Which I agreed too, because I only wanted the spider anyways.) Now they are trying to cancel the order. WTF

 

[thaeber]

I like that it has the metal sleeve the full length of the span like I was talking about above. Much stronger way of doing it compared to the 2 piece design from Dengfu.

Does anyone know if using 2 of those offset bushing will allow a 65mm stroke shock on the E22? Otherwise I will have to put the 5mm shim back into the shock to limit it down to 60mm. It's a PITA because the spring I have in there is tight to get in and out.

I use a 216x63 shock with one 2 mm offset bushing and some clearance modification on the yoke towards the seattube. Its still tight, and You carefully need to check that the bridge between the seatstays is not hitting the seattube when fully compressed.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Who knows what the go is with dodgy sellers on aliexpress???

I ordered a 104 bcd spider and chainring to suit the m620. The seller marked it as posted. They now left me messages saying that they don't have the chainring in stock. And offered me a different size. (Which I agreed too, because I only wanted the spider anyways.) Now they are trying to cancel the order. WTF

It's funny you should say that.
I've just ordered the same 104bcd chainring/spider from Christini Bicycles. The payments gone through. But I haven't had confirmation from them.
I've just sent an email requesting an update as I'm aware that I'll need to pay additional postage as i live in the UK.
But so far the ordering process through Christini Bicycles is a bit 'iffy', considering that my only reference number is from the PayPal receipt.

If it goes pear-shaped, atleast I can get my money back. But I'll give them the benefit of doubt for noe.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

@thaeber, do you have a picture of your E10 with the 216x63 shock?
I only ask because I tried googling this before and sadly, no results appeared. But I'm aware that you have successfully achieved this

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

I use a 216x63 shock with one 2 mm offset bushing and some clearance modification on the yoke towards the seattube. Its still tight, and You carefully need to check that the bridge between the seatstays is not hitting the seattube when fully compressed.

Thanks for the reply.

If the shock is standard 230 x 60. But then I use a 230 x 65 shock, with 5mm worth of offset bushings, making it effectively a 235 x 65, then the seat stays shouldn't contact the frame. Because the 5mm of extra shock travel is negated by the 5mm of offset bushings. The only thing to worry about then would be if the yoke touches the frame with 235mm of shock length when it's at full extension.

I wish I had of checked before I dropped the frame off at the painter

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

It's funny you should say that.
I've just ordered the same 104bcd chainring/spider from Christini Bicycles. The payments gone through. But I haven't had confirmation from them.
I've just sent an email requesting an update as I'm aware that I'll need to pay additional postage as i live in the UK.
But so far the ordering process through Christini Bicycles is a bit 'iffy', considering that my only reference number is from the PayPal receipt.

If it goes pear-shaped, atleast I can get my money back. But I'll give them the benefit of doubt for noe.

I saw the christini, but the price is crazy compared to the aliexpress one. 100usd (150aud) vs like 25aud for the spider, or 50aud for the spider and chainring.

But now all the listing's for the aliexpress one are missing/pulled. The seller is blaming the lockdowns. But I dont trust him. He already marked it as posted well before all this.

I have started the complaint process and requested a full refund. I screen shot'ed all the messages from him to use as evidence. Because he has marked it as posted on his end, my only option is to wait the 65 odd days for it to no-show, then lodge the missing item complaint. Or do a complaint that kind of implies it has been delivered already, and that I'm not satisfied with it.

I only use aliexpress once before all this to order a wheel truing stand. And it was successful. And the stand was bloody well made too.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Ill keep my eye on aliexpress to see if the spiders come back for sale. But if not, then I will be forced to spend on the Christini one.

Let me know how you go with thier order. It would be funny if they say out of stock. It would mean they are just drop shipping from China with 600% mark up.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Is it possible to modify a m500/600 or BBSHD or an other options for the chain ring adapter spider?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Ill keep my eye on aliexpress to see if the spiders come back for sale. But if not, then I will be forced to spend on the Christini one.

Let me know how you go with thier order. It would be funny if they say out of stock. It would mean they are just drop shipping from China with 600% mark up.

I'll keep you posted. Fingers crossed, they respond asap

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Lol,
So Christini Bicycles responded and they'll dispatch tomorrow.
$132 including shipping to the UK but I've never heard anyone complain about the quality of their spiders. So we'll give it a bash!!

 

[Mabman]

It is a quality bit of kit for sure Neeko and for what it does there were no other options I could find. Sometimes you just have to pay the piper! Kind of a shame that Bafang just didn't go that route to begin with though.

 

[Mabman]

It really is unfortunate that Bafang has gone the proprietary route because their efforts suck. At least Bosch and the others have a handle on programming that makes for a decent riding bicycle for most of the folks that buy them. The main complaint seems to be the legal imposed speed restriction but as far as pedal feel goes there are not many complaints that I see?

For years the access to programming that Bafang has had, even though it was a cadence based system for the most part in the BB series add on motors, allowed for some access for fine tuning as basic as it was. The M620 UART with torque/cadence PAS had the highest level of control due to the addition of a Torque tab but it was necessary because the tune from Bafang was horrible. If they had paid any attention to their customers they would have at least made some attempt at having a decent tune in hand when switching to CanBus but alas it seems like they just don't care.

The BESST tool does not have even anywhere near the function adjustments available via the older UART format so getting a stock one these days is a crap shoot as to if it will work for your style of riding. Smart minds are at work to develop a solution and at least one aftermarket controller from Innotrace but it's a shame that hoops must be hopped to get to a solution for what should be good out of the box.

However if the industry has its way it seems hell bent on the destruction of heavyweight/highpower ebikes anyway here in the U.S. where currently they are far enough into the grey area that ridden sensibly can be gotten away with. However:

E-bike regulation discussion an ‘eye-opener’ for industry

DANA POINT, Calif. (BRAIN) — The closing session at this year’s Bicycle Leadership Conference was not the flashiest or the best attended. But it probably was the most sobering 60 minutes of the two-day conference.

www.bicycleretailer.com

If the actual sale of them becomes illegal as proposed then it won't take long for them to disappear.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

It is a quality bit of kit for sure Neeko and for what it does there were no other options I could find. Sometimes you just have to pay the piper! Kind of a shame that Bafang just didn't go that route to begin with though.

I think I'll have to do the same. Even if the aliexpress ones become available again. It wil take time, and then even more time to deliver. Which will hold my whole build up. Would rather just get it done, rather than be waiting on a lousy little part like that.

I ordered the aliexpress part first cos I knew it would take the longest.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

You could say eMTB are actually a mobility aid for those that have physical disability that would otherwise limit them from regular MTB riding. You wouldn't kick a person out of a wheelchair and tell them to walk....

That is actually the whole reason I am doing an eMTB build in the first place. I am 35 yr old man, and was other wise fit and healthy. I loved to ride regular MTB, and never even considered an eBike. I even have about half a dozen strava KOMs on the MTB. Then I got the covid vaccine, and my heart got damaged. I spent 5 days in hospital. Now I can't ride like I used to. For me, the eMTB will be a mobility aid.

It really is unfortunate that Bafang has gone the proprietary route because their efforts suck. At least Bosch and the others have a handle on programming that makes for a decent riding bicycle for most of the folks that buy them. The main complaint seems to be the legal imposed speed restriction but as far as pedal feel goes there are not many complaints that I see?

For years the access to programming that Bafang has had, even though it was a cadence based system for the most part in the BB series add on motors, allowed for some access for fine tuning as basic as it was. The M620 UART with torque/cadence PAS had the highest level of control due to the addition of a Torque tab but it was necessary because the tune from Bafang was horrible. If they had paid any attention to their customers they would have at least made some attempt at having a decent tune in hand when switching to CanBus but alas it seems like they just don't care.

The BESST tool does not have even anywhere near the function adjustments available via the older UART format so getting a stock one these days is a crap shoot as to if it will work for your style of riding. Smart minds are at work to develop a solution and at least one aftermarket controller from Innotrace but it's a shame that hoops must be hopped to get to a solution for what should be good out of the box.

However if the industry has its way it seems hell bent on the destruction of heavyweight/highpower ebikes anyway here in the U.S. where currently they are far enough into the grey area that ridden sensibly can be gotten away with. However:

E-bike regulation discussion an ‘eye-opener’ for industry

DANA POINT, Calif. (BRAIN) — The closing session at this year’s Bicycle Leadership Conference was not the flashiest or the best attended. But it probably was the most sobering 60 minutes of the two-day conference.

www.bicycleretailer.com

If the actual sale of them becomes illegal as proposed then it won't take long for them to disappear.

 

[Mabman]

I think I'll have to do the same. Even if the aliexpress ones become available again. It wil take time, and then even more time to deliver. Which will hold my whole build up. Would rather just get it done, rather than be waiting on a lousy little part like that.

I ordered the aliexpress part first cos I knew it would take the longest.

There is more than enough power to use the stock ring.....reason I switched over was to get into the middle of the cassette more for the steep climbs around here. I wouldn't let that part get in the way of putting it together but I may have missed another reason you had above and apologise in advance if so.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

There is more than enough power to use the stock ring.....reason I switched over was to get into the middle of the cassette more for the steep climbs around here. I wouldn't let that part get in the way of putting it together but I may have missed another reason you had above and apologise in advance if so.

Sounds like a pretty similar reason as to why I'm changing the chainring. I don't have any doubts about the power of the bike. But I do want that power to be in gear range applicable to MTB. Like you, I want to have to have the commonly used gear range to equate to a good ground speed and cadence for MTB. I don't want to be chewing up the aluminium cassette gears. I would rather try and operate in the mid range of the cassete, which is steel, and also keep a relatively straight chain line aswell.

I opted for a 36t steel praxis ebike chain ring. Prior to my injury, I ride 32t, but could have easily moved up to 34t. So I figure 36t should be a good starting point atleast.

 

[Mabman]

You could say eMTB are actually a mobility aid for those that have physical disability that would otherwise limit them from regular MTB riding. You wouldn't kick a person out of a wheelchair and tell them to walk....

That is actually the whole reason I am doing an eMTB build in the first place. I am 35 yr old man, and was other wise fit and healthy. I loved to ride regular MTB, and never even considered an eBike. I even have about half a dozen strava KOMs on the MTB. Then I got the covid vaccine, and my heart got damaged. I spent 5 days in hospital. Now I can't ride like I used to. For me, the eMTB will be a mobility aid.

Sorry to hear about your incapacitation. For sure those with any sort of disability can benefit from using e assist. My son is a quad and has four different modes of transport to use for up to a tracked vehicle for fairly uneven terrain.

However what I got out of that article was that bikes like the E22's time, at least here in the US, is limited because it doesn't fit well into the CPSC regulations and getting in line with the NHTSA regs would mean way too much mucking around and also take them fully into motorized category which would eliminate their use on the non-motorized terrain that CPSC bikes are being allowed. This won't really have much effect on the eBike market here however because there will still be plenty of legal options for sale. But if they start to impose the stiff penalties they talk about in that article on companies that sell eBikes I doubt you will see high power ebikes being sold anymore.

 

[thaeber]

Thanks for the reply.

If the shock is standard 230 x 60. But then I use a 230 x 65 shock, with 5mm worth of offset bushings, making it effectively a 235 x 65, then the seat stays shouldn't contact the frame. Because the 5mm of extra shock travel is negated by the 5mm of offset bushings. The only thing to worry about then would be if the yoke touches the frame with 235mm of shock length when it's at full extension.

I wish I had of checked before I dropped the frame off at the painter

At 8 mm bolt diameter You only get 2mm offset per bushing! Be careful

 

[thaeber]

@thaeber, do you have a picture of your E10 with the 216x63 shock?
I only ask because I tried googling this before and sadly, no results appeared. But I'm aware that you have successfully achieved this

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Sorry to hear about your incapacitation. For sure those with any sort of disability can benefit from using e assist. My son is a quad and has four different modes of transport to use for up to a tracked vehicle for fairly uneven terrain.

However what I got out of that article was that bikes like the E22's time, at least here in the US, is limited because it doesn't fit well into the CPSC regulations and getting in line with the NHTSA regs would mean way too much mucking around and also take them fully into motorized category which would eliminate their use on the non-motorized terrain that CPSC bikes are being allowed. This won't really have much effect on the eBike market here however because there will still be plenty of legal options for sale. But if they start to impose the stiff penalties they talk about in that article on companies that sell eBikes I doubt you will see high power ebikes being sold anymore.

I dont know. I see the e22 etc as more of a fringe type thing. Sure there is watt wagons / lunas etc. But I think people that use them will be privately purchasing direct from China. Which makes it near on impossible to police. I don't know what the trails are around the USA, but I'd imagine you could just go and use them irrespective and most people you encounter won't know any difference.

Prohibition never works. When the government makes rules, people find loopholes. Same as when they make taxes, people find exclusions. They try this same thing with modified cars all the time. It pushes it further to the fringe, but it never stops it. People will always do it regardless of laws and regulations.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

At 8 mm bolt diameter You only get 2mm offset per bushing! Be careful

Only needs to get close to 5mm difference.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

w

View attachment 88806

View attachment 88807

Wow. That last picture is close to the frame.

So that's an e10, with a 216x63 shock, and offset bushings? What's What's stock shock supposed to be on the e10? 210x60????

Just trying to work out in my head how far you have gone from standard, to gauge whether my idea of 230x65 with offset bushing will work in the e22.

 

[thaeber]

w

Wow. That last picture is close to the frame.

So that's an e10, with a 216x63 shock, and offset bushings? What's What's stock shock supposed to be on the e10? 210x60????

Just trying to work out in my head how far you have gone from standard, to gauge whether my idea of 230x65 with offset bushing will work in the e22.

Correct. I used 1 offset bushing with 2 mm offset, so installed shock length is 214 mm

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Correct. I used 1 offset bushing with 2 mm offset, so installed shock length is 214 mm

Thats interesting.

Did you have to alter the yoke at all?

 

[thaeber]

Yes. Standard shock is 210 x 55. I had to rework/mill 2-3 mm off the upper plate of the yoke towards the seattube (red marked area) to make it fit.

 

[Mabman]

I dont know. I see the e22 etc as more of a fringe type thing. Sure there is watt wagons / lunas etc. But I think people that use them will be privately purchasing direct from China. Which makes it near on impossible to police. I don't know what the trails are around the USA, but I'd imagine you could just go and use them irrespective and most people you encounter won't know any difference.

Prohibition never works. When the government makes rules, people find loopholes. Same as when they make taxes, people find exclusions. They try this same thing with modified cars all the time. It pushes it further to the fringe, but it never stops it. People will always do it regardless of laws and regulations.

Totally agree. However, at least here in the US, if the fines for a company selling out of regulation ebikes start to happen the companies will stop. There are way more M620 bikes being offered than as mentioned from various companies that mostly are just rebadging Ali bikes. The hunter type market seems to be one that has adopted it as an example and appears to be popular. These, what I would describe as "fly by night", companies will scatter like roaches I predict. But as you say individuals will still find a way to get ahold of high power bikes on a onesy basis so they won't disappear completely. I don't have any plans on getting rid of mine.

 

[Miliki]

Hola. Estoy muy interesado en este hilo.
Estaba pensando en montar algo así con el M600 pero los problemas derivados del CANBUS están aumentando mi interés por el M620.
Tengo un par de preguntas:
¿Todos los M620 funcionan con el protocolo UART?
Y el segundo pregunta:
Alguien me puede decir donde encontrar este cuadro para enviar a España? Busqué Denfu en Alibaba y no los tiene en el catálogo.
[/CITA]
Hola, finalmente conseguiste el cuadro?