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    Riding a tuned or deristricted EMTB is not a trivial offence and can have serious legal consequences. Also, many manufacturers can detect the use of a tuning device or deristricting method and may decline a repair under warranty if it was modified from the intended original specification. Deristricting EMTB's can also add increased loads for motors and batteries. Riding above the local law limit may reclassify the bike as a low-powered bike, requiring insurance, registration and a number plate.

    Be aware of your local country laws. Many laws prohibit use of modified EMTB's. It is your responsibility to check local laws. Ignoring it, has potential implications to trail access, and risk of prosecution in the event of an accident.

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Suke said:
Does anyone have more about information from the first post? Should we who have the US version be worried? Or is this a cry into the dark?
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Honestly, no idea either It could be that the pretty overt use of this technique caught the interest of Bosch. Presumably they control the licensing for the tools he needs to use & maybe cut him off? Typically I did it just before a holiday so can't power on, but am not going to lose any sleep over it. Worst case it needs to be set back to EU/UK and we'll have to find a service place to do it (at whatever extortionate rate they want to levy).

It's possible that they geo-fence future updates to NA only & as we're outside of it we might not get them or be eligible for them? But it's not hard to spoof a GPS signal to show in Texas somewhere.

That said, the last bunch of Flow updates didn't really do much. They seem to be doing stuff for their Flow+ Subscription people, or integration with electronic shifters. Older bikes didn't get the 100Nm upgrade etc. I can probably live without it reporting back to the mothership.

Still, would be good to learn more. There's probably a few of us who took this route as opposed to hardware based tweaks, so I'm sure it will reveal itself soon enough.
 
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Suke said:
Does anyone have more about information from the first post? Should we who have the US version be worried? Or is this a cry into the dark?
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It's quite odd what's going on isn't it? Various times disappearing from whatsapp and/or facebook and then that final message. Rumours on other forums of Bosch pulling his plug etc. Who knows what to believe currently.
 
Joecrow said:
Interesting but very expensive (looks like €179,- per bike) compared to Rudi's €35 and you have to do it all yourself via your browser :unsure:but they do claim it is reversible.
Not sure what the e-bike-doctor is charging these days but I thought in the past they were the same as Rudi.
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75 euro, seriously thinking of going the volspeed module route which is freely configurable
 
End of the day supply and demand a couple of weeks ago there were 3/4 people active and doing it so price goes down, now only seems to be 1 or 2 names doing it so price goes up, its cheaper than the hardware mods and the guys offer free back to normal mode
 
Raptor said:
Has anyone actually done this? I just wonder how technically they've managed this as they say there is no flashing of firmware of anything and no modules to install...
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They are still uploading speed configuration, you can say its only calibration data, but in the end, you still changing data in the bike. Is it flashing? It just playing with words.
 
Aitrui said:
They are still uploading speed configuration, you can say its only calibration data, but in the end, you still changing data in the bike. Is it flashing? It just playing with words.
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So are they amending the installed Bosch software/firmware on the bike or overwriting it with an 'amended' version?
 
Raptor said:
So are they amending the installed Bosch software/firmware on the bike or overwriting it with an 'amended' version?
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Amending or not amending? that is the question...

You should ask them,if they amend the data or not amend it. :D

In the end doesnt matter, it works, if anyone afraid of this method, you have the option to leave your bike stock, or buy any "speed" box.
 
Aitrui said:
Amending or not amending? that is the question...

You should ask them,if they amend the data or not amend it. :D

In the end doesnt matter, it works, if anyone afraid of this method, you have the option to leave your bike stock, or buy any "speed" box.
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Actually you can also replace the whole motor with a 32 or 45 km/h unit . Not the cheapest option , but an option
 
Ghostrider.1127 said:
Actually you can also replace the whole motor with a 32 or 45 km/h unit . Not the cheapest option , but an option
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I've wondered about this possibility before, and figured that you could sell your original unneeded motor to offset some of the cost, but I've never been clear on how to go buying a 45km/h unit. You're saying it's an option, but can you fill us in on how to do it? Do you contact Bosch directly, or does your local shop do it? Or do you need to get them from a bike company that uses them? Or are you talking about getting reconditioned models from a 3rd party or grey market seller?

I ask because I'd always figured if trying to order one from Bosch official routes, they'd want some sort of verification of what bike it was going on, which would restrict one from switching from a 32kmh to a 45kmh model if your bike model didn't have it as an OEM option.

From my AI assisted further research, the CX doesn't come in a Class 3 variant, so one needs to get the "Performance Line Speed" motor, which may have different hardware/gear reductions and a different torque curve emphasising higher cadences rather than the low end grunt of the CX, so it may not be as good for trail riding. Even if that concern was overblown, getting and installing one seems pretty challenging, assuming this info is correct:
"It is highly impractical to buy a Performance Line Speed motor on its own and fit it to a bike that originally came with a
CX motor for several reasons:
  • Motor Availability: Bosch motors are generally not available for direct-to-consumer purchase in the aftermarket. They are sold through certified dealers and manufacturers.
  • Proprietary Software & Programming: The motor requires specific software programming to match the bike's wheel size, gearing, and serial number. This is done using a dealer-level diagnostic tool. A dealer is unlikely to program a motor not originally intended for that specific bike model due to liability and warranty concerns."
 
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TheKaiser said:
I've wondered about this possibility before, and figured that you could sell your original unneeded motor to offset some of the cost, but I've never been clear on how to go buying a 45km/h unit. You're saying it's an option, but can you fill us in on how to do it? Do you contact Bosch directly, or does your local shop do it? Or do you need to get them from a bike company that uses them? Or are you talking about getting reconditioned models from a 3rd party or grey market seller?

I ask because I'd always figured if trying to order one from Bosch official routes, they'd want some sort of verification of what bike it was going on, which would restrict one from switching from a 32kmh to a 45kmh model if your bike model didn't have it as an OEM option.

From my AI assisted further research, the CX doesn't come in a Class 3 variant, so one needs to get the "Performance Line Speed" motor, which may have different hardware/gear reductions and a different torque curve emphasising higher cadences rather than the low end grunt of the CX, so it may not be as good for trail riding. Even if that concern was overblown, getting and installing one seems pretty challenging, assuming this info is correct:
"It is highly impractical to buy a Performance Line Speed motor on its own and fit it to a bike that originally came with a
CX motor for several reasons:
  • Motor Availability: Bosch motors are generally not available for direct-to-consumer purchase in the aftermarket. They are sold through certified dealers and manufacturers.
  • Proprietary Software & Programming: The motor requires specific software programming to match the bike's wheel size, gearing, and serial number. This is done using a dealer-level diagnostic tool. A dealer is unlikely to program a motor not originally intended for that specific bike model due to liability and warranty concerns."
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Internally the cx or speed motors are not that different on hardware side ( even the cargo edition with 400% already on early gen.)
Than must be specific , which motor ? which gen 2? 3?4? 4smart? 5? ; it is for chain? belt? chain enviolo? chain roloff? or belt roloff ? e-shift? and so on than which speed sensor internal ? external ?
Than for few units 75nm? 85nm?
So no fixed rules but many different software versions ( OEM or bosch standard)

Few reseller are offering the opportunity to buy new unit ,standard programmed , or you´ll need to add the programming price (they offer even the cx4 race motor , limited edition ; just to say ) seems few seller are not caring about liability .
For programming the new unit , if possible , you need the dealer software to read the I.D. numbers.
Sure it also possible they are unable to give the exact setting like an original unit in few cases.

Few other are asking for the wheel size to programm it , other are selling version for 29 0r 27´5 or 26 , there is no clear rule.

AI assistents are cool but is way to early to use them for those complex Tech/mech things .( near 40 years experience on field )

Where you can buy ? lot of dealer are selling in internet , e-shop , ebay ....
Mostly are located in Germany ( suprise)
What it cost ? from 300 euro to 1000 euro
Yes they are give you also an year of warranty
Yes they offer finance
Yes Brand new unit ( but i found also with cosmetic damages so even cheaper)

End of this little O.T.


( edited prices )
 
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paul.williams_1981@yahoo. said:
Where can you get the 32kph upgrade now
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Probably old mate BANNED alerted Bosch to the awesome upgrade. He's on many platforms bashing Rudi, so much so that some of them give me the shits now. When he was doing the same if not worse.

Sad that we buy an expensive bike that we actually don't really own and have no control over, bricked by Bosch OTA.
 
So are everyone's bikes locked/bricked now, or not?:unsure: I know Rudie updated his original post and the thread title with the ominous phrase "All EBIKES LOCKED" before he disappeared, so I had kind of assumed that this thread would rapidly become a sort of emotional support group for people who had gotten his (or similar) modifications and now have unusuable bikes. There seemed to be a lot of satisfied customers chiming in about how well his 32kmh and 64kmh modifications were working, so, for the seemingly large number of you who did these mods, do your bikes still work???

Just asking because I don't think I have seen a single person even mention their bike becoming non-functional, whereas I know I'd be in a state of panic if that happened to my bike.
 
TheKaiser said:
So are everyone's bikes locked/bricked now, or not?:unsure: I know Rudie updated his original post and the thread title with the ominous phrase "All EBIKES LOCKED" before he disappeared, so I had kind of assumed that this thread would rapidly become a sort of emotional support group for people who had gotten his (or similar) modifications and now have unusuable bikes. There seemed to be a lot of satisfied customers chiming in about how well his 32kmh and 64kmh modifications were working, so, for the seemingly large number of you who did these mods, do your bikes still work???

Just asking because I don't think I have seen a single person even mention their bike becoming non-functional, whereas I know I'd be in a state of panic if that happened to my bike.
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Hi. I just updated/upgraded the bike (32km) yesterday at bike-doctor.com. All good for now. Flow app and firmware update both turned off from automatic updates.
 
Disclosure: I am frequently wrong...

I did take the advice of the E-Bike Doctor on here to turn off the auto-update to Flow & Firmware. That seems like a sensible option, but one of us will eventually have to be 'first'. But I have to say that I don't think a few bikes being switched to a different region, something which Bosch themselves do by default would cause their IT to swing into action in a matter of days to ditch their work plans & somehow work out who among their service partners can or can't reset regions for new/replacement hardware, or whether or not to build checks into both Android & Apple software to undo a firmware update based solely on your location (for fear they will accidentally do something like set a charity bike ride in Nepal for Cleft Palate surgery from EU/German to Nepalese).

I feel bad that Rudie might have set up a side business & accidentally torpedoed it (or maybe even his actual business) by doing things we asked him to do, or perhaps even worse that the spiteful Drive Unit guy shopped him to Bosch.
 
Surely anyone who had this 'fix' done, disabled updates and do not connect to the app ?

My Amflow, the day I set it up in the shop, connected via NZ VPN, got unlimited speed and have never opened or updated the app since, 8 months and 3200km later have passed, who cares.
 
ozzybmx said:
Surely anyone who had this 'fix' done, disabled updates and do not connect to the app ?
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Basically that's OK until there is a new update that has features you really want! No idea what Bosch are planning for the future but I definitely would not have wanted to miss the updates that gave us 100 Nm and the integration of the new Shimano Di2 derailleurs!
 
Joecrow said:
Basically that's OK until there is a new update that has features you really want! No idea what Bosch are planning for the future but I definitely would not have wanted to miss the updates that gave us 100 Nm and the integration of the new Shimano Di2 derailleurs!
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When I got the bike and had unlimited, there was no feature that I needed after that.

I know how to change gears after 30yrs of riding a bike, I don't need soft change, I told my kids to change gears like they were made of glass as they grew up, all 3 of us ride and the bike felt good from day 1, no update needed.
 
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