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[KevRae]

CLASS3 use an speed engine different hardware

Also new forum member price 35 euro!

Hi Rudie, I'm also trying to contact on WhatsApp.

 

[squowse]

Anyone struggling to contact Rudi there is another tech doing the same thing. Bosch Smart System Remote Diagnostic, 32km/h remotely

 

[squowse]

Unlawful activity is breaking the forum rules. Rudy, do you have a registered business in NL? Or are you dodging taxes and mandatory insurance with untaxed income? You keep spamming all forums and Facebook groups. Bringing a motor to 64kph has the risk of overheating batterypack. You don't warn users about the risks of a fast degrading or burning battery. Do you offer warranty and liability?

Why would the speed be able to burn a battery? And why only in some countries? The battery is protected against over current although this is more likely to occur on a steep climb

 

[Joecrow]

Unlawful activity is breaking the forum rules. Rudy, do you have a registered business in NL? Or are you dodging taxes and mandatory insurance with untaxed income? You keep spamming all forums and Facebook groups. Bringing a motor to 64kph has the risk of overheating batterypack. You don't warn users about the risks of a fast degrading or burning battery. Do you offer warranty and liability?

Hard words and whether you are right or not, I would agree that enabling 64 kph is fraught with danger, not least from the police if used on public highways. That said the modest speed increase from 25 kph to 32 kph for the basic package is not going to cause any mechanical/electrical issues and hey I can reach that speed with normal pedaling even with my aging legs! Circumventing the maximum speed restriction is certainly not new, various devices and software changes have been available for years often at extortionate prices so Rudi's reliable and cost effective service is a welcome change i.m.o.
In my case he was able to activate the PowerMore option on a bike that none of the many LBS's in my area were either willing or able to do in the 3 years I have owned it, despite the go ahead from the bike manufacturer! I also suspect even getting simple things done, such as activating lights and power ports would be cheaper, more reliable and less hassle than trying to get some dumb ass at a local bike shop to do it.
Thanks Rudi, keep up the good work.

 

[squowse]

Because the Bosch system only accounts for 45kph with 16A max current from a CX motor. If you go to 64kph, you're demanding higher current levels for a longer duration, which the system, mostly the battery cells, was never designed for. 1mm2 cables heat up while being in contact with the 18650 cells, connector tends to become high resistance, cells lifetime seriously gets lowered. Integrating the area under the current graph gives a way higher average current than on a standard 32 or 45 kph bike.
Why only in some countries? He's operating from NL according to his many WhatsApp numbers, where you need liability insurance. Likely Rudy Beukering is a fake name.

Hills would draw higher current than speed. The system will obviously protect itself. Makes me concerned about your electrical/engineering knowledge. The bike obviously wont get to 64kph from pedalling/motor. The gearing isn’t high enough. The 32kph is safe for the equipment in some countries but not europe? You’re saying the battery cables are different in usa etc?

 

[squowse]

Because the Bosch system only accounts for 45kph with 16A max current from a CX motor. If you go to 64kph, you're demanding higher current levels for a longer duration, which the system, mostly the battery cells, was never designed for. 1mm2 cables heat up while being in contact with the 18650 cells, connector tends to become high resistance, cells lifetime seriously gets lowered. Integrating the area under the current graph gives a way higher average current than on a standard 32 or 45 kph bike.
Why only in some countries? He's operating from NL according to his many WhatsApp numbers, where you need liability insurance. Likely Rudy Beukering is a fake name.

Are you saying you’re opposed to any removal of the speed restriction? I wonder why you’re in this clearly marked section of the forum.
You do modifications clearly in violation of the manufacturer’s warranty but you draw the line at letting the bike perform the same in europe as usa?

 

[squowse]

Hills don't draw more or less current than speed. It depends on the hill and the speed. Makes me concerned about your physics knowledge (if we're going to be going ad hominem). The system will protect itself but that doesn't prevent accelerated cell degradation. A system that constantly is triggering it's limit protection isn't safe either, the protection is a last line defence. I know plenty of lbs's suck at doing anything software or electrical m. That's truly a shame. I'm not against software mods at all, the 32kph option is truly nice. But 64 kph is pushing it. I've been working on the Bosch system for over 10y, so I know how far it can be pushed. I do high torque mods, but as a responsible, insured and registered business we also do thermography, stress analysis, increase wiring thickness, check cell type (some Bosch packs don't use LGMJ1 or Samsung 35E but Sanyo or EVE, these really get high IR after 100 or so cycles and already perform worse on faster bikes, we really can spot the difference) and inform the owner of the possible risks and faster wear. I don't see any of that here...
I don't draw the line at the USA 32kph, I DO at 64kph.

Youre saying the power (current) required to go up hill is the same on the flat as going up a hill? Really?

 

[TheKaiser]

Because the Bosch system only accounts for 45kph with 16A max current from a CX motor. If you go to 64kph, you're demanding higher current levels for a longer duration, which the system, mostly the battery cells, was never designed for. 1mm2 cables heat up while being in contact with the 18650 cells, connector tends to become high resistance, cells lifetime seriously gets lowered. Integrating the area under the current graph gives a way higher average current than on a standard 32 or 45 kph bike.
Why only in some countries? He's operating from NL according to his many WhatsApp numbers, where you need liability insurance. Likely Rudy Beukering is a fake name.

You raise some good questions, but I still don't quite follow your line of thinking regarding a 64kph limit running the risk of overheating a battery pack. I get what you are saying that when viewing a chart of the current draw, the total Area Under the Curve with a 64kph limit will be higher for a given ride than a 32kph bike on the same route if the rider is using the higher limit to continue to apply motor power on descents that would otherwise reach the motor cutoff. BUT, the increased current draws you are concerned about will be when the bike is moving at a faster pace, with better airflow for cooling, and will still likely be moderate in terms of torque load. Applying 250w of motor power at 50kph is not going to heat the motor up more than applying 250w of motor power at 32kph. In fact, it should be the opposite, due to the better cooling, so I'm inclined to think the overall heat production-heat shedding equilibrium will be better.

That is in contrast to grinding up a steep alpine climb, where there is very little airflow, and torque loads and current draw will be higher than on the flats and descents. On a climb of that type, that goes on for 20-60 minutes or more, I'm inclined to think that the heat buildup will far exceed anything seen on the flats or descents, no matter the motor speed cutoff. Bosch motors already have systems that limit the power output to 750w max, and derate the power output when max temperatures are exceeded, which many people in these steep, hot climbing scenarios have experienced, especially if they are bigger riders or carrying a lot of heavy gear. If what you are saying about the heat sensitivity of these components is true, then it seems to me that the bigger concern is for riders of stock 32kph limit bikes who are riding long steep alpine climbs on a daily basis, due to the extended periods of peak current draw, rather than people cruising on the flats or descents who are using a moderate amount of power and just would like to be able to continue to apply that moderate amount beyond the 32kph limit. Most bikes can't even reach 32kph on a steep climb anyway, due to the power limit, so you could make the speed limit 1000kph and it really still wouldn't matter as that isn't the limiting factor in what I would contend are the conditions most likely to cause overheating.

 

[TheKaiser]

You're correct. I'm glad to read a post with knowledge of the real world But the thing is that these motors don't run at 250W when going 45+KPH, they're running at 600W+. Also the battery packs are shielded from wind. Powertubes are in the frame and the frame/rack are in thick plastic cases. Though the latter will experience about 3-4 degrees cooldown in proper wind VS still( verified with temp probes and constant current lab load)

Those are some interesting points, and yeah, I have wondered about the cooling capacity of both the batteries and the motor casing, given their protective coverings, so that 3-4 degree figure is interesting. I also just saw your other recent post in which you stated "A 3% hill at 25kph uses less power than a 0% incline at 64kph." I can see where you are coming from on that point, with the exponential nature of wind resistance. But would you care to re-run those numbers for a 10% and 20% hill at 20-25kph? Those are conditions that could already be seen by someone on a completely stock, unmodified Bosch motor/battery system, unless the power limit can't achieve the speed, or the heat sensors derate the motor, which is kind of the same thing.

Also, as another poster mentioned, our gearing won't really allow one to achieve more than about 45-50kph, even spinning like mad, so that significantly reduces the max demand one would see at 0% grade.

 

[squowse]

10% hill at 25kph requires between 600 and 700W. 20% will be closer to 1100W, but that's an extreme hill to be climbing prolonged. Since Bosch is OEM capped at about 700W, you won't be going 25kph up that hill. More like 15kph.
Flat at 64kph requires 1000+W.
Assumptions: no drivetrain losses, upright rider, 0.004 rolling loss coeff. , 90kg vehicle weight incl rider., 9,8m/s² gravity

Yes the 700W peak power (750 on mine i believe) is the cap that means it wont burn out. You are more likely to use this power going up hill at speed lower than 25kph. You cant use the power to get to 64kph, the gearing is insufficient. You would only do it down hill (when the motor isnt doing the work)

 

[cream]

Really that seems like a corner case. Don't people pedaling with high cadence on en emtb (with max chainring) let alone city bikes with rohloff hub and huge chainrings , to get to 64km/h. Guess that number is chosen so you can calculate faster the distance driven.

Drawing more current from the battery for longer times will stress it a bit more on the long term, but not to the point of overheating it. You still have current limit set by drive unit motor controller electronics.

More likely drive unit will overheat faster(either electric motor or 3 phase inverter) and will go into power throttling.

One thing is clear. You want more power (out of the same thing) , prepare for more wear (if you constantly using it).

 

[squowse]

With rohloff it's theoretically possible. Also there's 3rd party Bosch chainrings with more teeth. With standard gearing and nexus 7 I can get a gen 2 CX to go 55kph on the Dyno at 650W loading, simulating a 5% downhill run.

and did the battery melt down?

 

[squowse]

Really that seems like a corner case. Don't people pedaling with high cadence on en emtb (with max chainring) let alone city bikes with rohloff hub and huge chainrings , to get to 64km/h. Guess that number is chosen so you can calculate faster the distance driven.

Drawing more current from the battery for longer times will stress it a bit more on the long term, but not to the point of overheating it. You still have current limit set by drive unit motor controller electronics.

More likely drive unit will overheat faster(either electric motor or 3 phase inverter) and will go into power throttling.

One thing is clear. You want more power (out of the same thing) , prepare for more wear (if you constantly using it).

and its not even more power, that limit doesn't change.

 

[Eifice]

Hi everyone. My friend has a bike with a Bosch Gen 4 Smart System. The bike is set up with 29" wheels and there’s no way to install 27.5" wheels. Can you install the American firmware and set the wheel diameter to 27.5"? In theory, that would add about 2.5 km/h to the top speed — roughly 35 km/h total. That would be my ideal speed. Thanks for the answer!

 

[TheKaiser]

Hi everyone. My friend has a bike with a Bosch Gen 4 Smart System. The bike is set up with 29" wheels and there’s no way to install 27.5" wheels. Can you install the American firmware and set the wheel diameter to 27.5"? In theory, that would add about 2.5 km/h to the top speed — roughly 35 km/h total. That would be my ideal speed. Thanks for the answer!

I can't say for sure but, based on my understanding, this Rudi fellow can install the American firmware, which will get you 32kmh, and earlier in the thread you will see references to the "64kmh" modification, which he achieves by also changing the wheel size setting to 50% of the true size. If he can do that, I assume he could also set it to 27.5" as that is a much more common and realistic figure, so it seems far more simple than setting it to an unrealistically small figure like the 50% method.

This stuff is a little confusing as there are end-user and dealer-level adjustments one can make to the circumference of the tire within a 5% +/- range, but my understanding is that they only adjust the displayed speed, not the motor power cutoff behavior. They are intended to allow one to accurately calibrate the speedometer/odometer functions, but the motor cutoff speed will still be governed by the factory-installed firmware, which is programmed for whatever tire size they originally intended the bike to use. Changing the wheel size for the purpose of altering the motor cutoff speed requires installing a new Configuration Container (firmware file), which is usually specific to the bike manufacturer.

If anyone else here has experience with switching between 27.5" and 29" wheels on Bosch bikes where it is a factory approved option, I would love to hear your reports, but my understanding is that if, for example, your bike came with a 29" wheel, and you wanted to switch to a 27.5" (again, assume the bike has flip chips to compensate and the bike brand approves it), you need to get a 27.5" wheel specific firmware installed by your Cannondale, Ibis, etc...dealer. If you don't do that, you will lose top end assistance speed, which seems like a big hassle to me if you like to switch wheels frequently, depending on your terrain. This all assumes that you are doing things the normal way through your local dealer of the bike brand in question. Rudi seems to be able to access and install Configuration Containers that are either intended for bikes of other stock wheel sizes, or he can modify the stock Configuration Containers associated with the bike to a different wheel size, but I am not sure which.

 

[Joely]

Had my wife's bike done by Rudie, opted for 20MPH/32KPH as she wants to keep track of the true milage covered.
All went well, its a nice simple process, even 20MPH has transformed the bike, far less likely to hit that dreaded cut off.

Thank you Rudie - excellent service sir

 

[mcmcmc]

I did the 32km/h version with Rudie last week on both my ebikes. The process was really quick, the longest part of it was the software download required to do the update - my fault, as I was in my garage at the extreme range of my WiFi.

The actual update process wasn't long at all & I was prompted over WhatsApp on anything I needed to do (the odd log in, switching cables from one bike to another etc).

The weather has been pretty grim here & I am a fair weather rider )) so I haven't done much beyond a validation ride. But so far so good. No errors, oddities or regrets.

The only change you are likely to notice is that there's an extra button press to clear a message on powering up, and it seems to want to start from the 'Off' level of assist rather than whatever it was when it was shutdown last. To be honest, if I hadn't been riding a bosch-powered bike for a couple of years, I doubt I would have even noticed that foible. You can also set that top speed (within 0-32kmh range) by mode, for example on the Turbo mode, max assist speed is 32, but Eco can be 25kmh).

Overall, very happy. It's not a massive bump in speed but I was always riding into the old limiter. 15 miles per hour is pretty good riding uphill, but on flat/down you end up fighting against it a lot. That extra couple of miles per hour is a good compromise for me.

 

[Akkutrekker]

Once it's installed, could I undo it myself?

 

[borre_mtb]

Whatsapp working again!

View attachment 175342

Rudi, how can I contact you,
Can not find you any more on facebook.

 

[borre_mtb]

Does anyone have a (long term) experience with the 64km mode?
I am on doubt between 64 and 32

Wil the the torque, dynamic and assisting setting feel the same between 64 and 32?
Because with 64, the system thinks you are riding half the speed you actually are doing.
I can imagine the setting will react different then??

 

[Joecrow]

Regardless of any rights or wrongs or how additional stress may relate to premature motor failure what Rudi has done is open a chink in the armour of Bosch protectionism! We should be able to activate the light, power ports and other options without having to pay a dealer to do it and even increase to assist top speed for off road use if desired! We have paid for the bikes and they should be open to do as we please with, albeit in the knowledge that some changes will invalidate warranty and break the law.

 

[mcmcmc]

Are we deleting messages on here now? I'd like to know what was wrong with what I posted please.

 

[Joecrow]

Are we deleting messages on here now? I'd like to know what was wrong with what I posted please.

Same for me, looks like the user who was spreading suspicion, doubt and fear has been deleted along with all their posts and any posts from anyone else that contained a quote from the deleted user! No idea why the user was deleted though.

 

[mcmcmc]

Same for me, looks like the user who was spreading suspicion, doubt and fear has been deleted along with all their posts and any posts from anyone else that contained a quote from the deleted user! No idea why the user was deleted though.

Good detective work!

 

[Moderator]

Are we deleting messages on here now? I'd like to know what was wrong with what I posted please.

Sorry, you should have received a notification explaining that your post had been deleted to tidy the thread after the user had been removed.

They were happy to promote their own software/systems/board changes to make motors more powerful - but were then complaining about other members offering similar services or just speed increases.

They also were proposing that other peoples changes increased the risk of battery damage/fires - yet were happy to promote using third party/untested chinese batteries on the same bikes with a potentially huge increase in risk of fires.

None of their Posting IP's even remotely resembled the location of where they claimed to be, so in the interest of protecting existing members, they were removed.

 

[BeatM.]

Hi Rudie

PM you to do 3 of mine and one of my friends

Looking forward to

 

[pila81]

Hi @Rudie,

Looking for a 32 km/h upgrade for a CX4, location NL.
Got a laptop on standby, thanks

 

[Mario Antony]

Riding my deresctrited bike (by Rudie), it's a real pleasure!
No more "anchor feeling"...
Bike passes 25km/h and can keep accelarating up to almost 40km/h using Eco Mode set at 60Nm max power@ 400W. Will try less torque and power.

Contrary to what some say, there is no battery degradation, nor will it consume more power than a resctrited ebike using full power.

The ebike deresctrited using emtb+ it's really something else!

For 40euros (I think Rudie is only charging forty euros now), it's a no brainer.
Some will be mad about it (chiptunning, or others thar deresctrited by 200 and 250 euros), but that's life!

 

[Raptor]

Hi @Rudie,

Looking for a 32 km/h upgrade for a CX4, location NL.
Got a laptop on standby, thanks

I don't think he's around doing this anymore. See his first post

 

[Suke]

Does anyone have more about information from the first post? Should we who have the US version be worried? Or is this a cry into the dark?

Bosch USA Software New Update ALL EBIKES LOCKED

Watch out