Rail (625Wh) Cracked Rail frames

Juise

Juise

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Seen today pics on the fb group, checked mine too (Already going to get replacement because other issue)

The aluminium Rail frame cracks from the lower tube either before or after the battery compartment.

Mine has a crack between the battery compartment near the shock mount. Have you checked yours?

IMG_20220919_203628.jpg

700km, 2021 XL.
 
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Quick thinking leads me to the conclusion that the culprit might be the asymmetrical battery compartment slot in the frame.

This design is very demanding structurally to the frame and to design it.

There is always bending in material and this asymmetrical design creates twisting to the down tube. This twisting itself should not be the problem as correct materials can take it to some degree.

Problem in the Rail frame could be that the structure stiffens after the downtube closes up again and the twisting force in the tube ends in short distance, so it creates high stress area where the crack forms.

In english, the battery area bends which makes it twist, and the frame after it doesn't which leads to the material being torn separate - > cracks

EDIT:
This frame problem may be only on some frames, i haven't been able to look from the inside, but someone suggested the motor & shock mount part is a machined part which the downtube joins, so the way (welding settings etc) this joint is manufactured may also contribute to the problem.

I talked to a trek rep yesterday and they were quite confident my replacement frame would not crack, so i think they might have addressed this already in manufacturing or that it was a problem in certain manufacturing batch etc.

Lets see.
 
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This is the first I've heard of it in over 2 years of owning a Rail. I'd say it's an anomaly not like the new Giant reign cracked frames teething problems
 
Doug Stampfer said:
This is the first I've heard of it in over 2 years of owning a Rail. I'd say it's an anomaly not like the new Giant reign cracked frames teething problems
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I'm really hoping this is just some rare batch. Some have been driven only 300miles. Mine has done 700km. No huge crashes.

Mainly i just want to point that there might be something in this area, so if People would check their frames, before something bad happens.
It's really hard to see if not looking for it, i had the frame in my shop table when fitting a new shock, in good lighting and still missed it.
 
Ouch, same as the 2022 Giant issue then. Hopefully Trek acknowledge the problem fast. Looks like the Giant 2023s have a weld back in place over that weak area.
 
I had noticed the area looking weird first of the year when I replaced all the pivot bearings. Lately, I hadn't been washing the bike much and wasn't paying attention to it. I've had the bike since 5/20 and have about 5k miles on the frame. Second motor. Seems like two cracks to me. I also broke my Powerfly LT before the Rail. Trek has always taken care of my issues and I absolutely still love the Gen1 Rail!

signal-2022-09-20-10-25-41-331.jpg
 
My replacement frame comes tomorrow so i can
Fat Rat said:
Hello
So is it common or rare ?
Come on you know you want to tell all of us loyal customers .
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I'm pretty sure they will not want to tell if it was common 😄

Retail prices would plummet and New onew would stay in the stores.

But it seems their warranty seems to work for now. I'm going to ask for a warranty upgrade to a carbon one if this New one cracks from the same spot.

It looks like there is no weld seam, so the tube is "glued" to the bottom bracket and that seam is giving up on these bikes.
 
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Fat Rat said:
100% agree
Honesty from a manufacturer would be pretty much unheard of no matter what the reason.
My post was more jest than expecting an honest answer, I've been through this before with Orbea and although there warranty process was ok their correspondence was a joke and blatant bull crap.

If they are bonded there, thou maybe that's why some of the battery mounts have been coming unbonded too, crap bond or bonding process which hopefully they have rectified the one or the other or both whichever it maybe 🤞

Ah well keep on riding :)
Enjoy your new frame.
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And for those without warranty some fancy aeromotive riveting is the way to stiching your frames together 😄

I'm guessing the battery compartment tube is some 7xxx series aluminium so it cannot be welded and thats why they bonded it to the bottom bracket. The bottom bracket is welded to the seat stay so thats weldable aluminium.
 
Jschlueter said:
I had noticed the area looking weird first of the year when I replaced all the pivot bearings. Lately, I hadn't been washing the bike much and wasn't paying attention to it. I've had the bike since 5/20 and have about 5k miles on the frame. Second motor. Seems like two cracks to me. I also broke my Powerfly LT before the Rail. Trek has always taken care of my issues and I absolutely still love the Gen1 Rail!

View attachment 97966
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are you sure it's a crack in the frame and not just the paint that has flaked or cracked ?
 
I was selling my rail 5 and the buyer noticed the line by the shock, I took it to Trek and they replaced the frame so he was well pleased as m y old frame was scratched and chipped!
 
Hmm. I think I need to check mine... ☹
 
Here’s mine, not sure it’s a crack or crap paint. It looks to be lower than all the others on this thread.
E34E4B33-F4BB-4D63-8672-E4B68775B0BC.jpeg
 
Anyone with carbon frames?

I presume the structure is the same, the battery compartment tube is bonded to the bottom bracket, but is the bottom bracket in carbon frames carbon or aluminium?
 
Juise said:
Anyone with carbon frames?

I presume the structure is the same, the battery compartment tube is bonded to the bottom bracket, but is the bottom bracket in carbon frames carbon or aluminium?
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My current 9.8xt carbon frame 2022 does not have it nor did my previous one (2021 model) . My wife's aluminium rail (2022) also does not have it. We have done around 3000kms in total and no issues with any of the frames. I have not heard of anyone else really having it so its just an anomaly and its great trek is replacing the frame for you!
 
Just an update on my frame. Trek offered me a 9.7 frame for $250. I was told alloy frames would take months to get. I feel like they should send me what they have in stock free of charge but it is what it is. Hopefully they include a matching battery cover but not holding my breath.
 
Jschlueter said:
Just an update on my frame. Trek offered me a 9.7 frame for $250. I was told alloy frames would take months to get. I feel like they should send me what they have in stock free of charge but it is what it is. Hopefully they include a matching battery cover but not holding my breath.
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At least my aluminium frame came with New frame, battery cover for the battery, New rear axle, New bearings in linkages, New shock bolts and bearings and New knockblock.

Also $250 for +$1500 carbon frame is a Good deal in my mind.
 
Fat Rat said:
I could not agree more
I personally would not want a carbon frame over an Alloy let alone having to pay for the privilege
I chose alloy because that's what i wanted it wasn't a money thing.
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If i could get a carbon frame as warranty upgrade for a sixth of the price I'd take that and put the bike, if i didn't want a carbon one, for sale at a higher price it would be as 9.7

In my opinion the only problem with carbon frame is that it cant take hits like the alloy one.

So just dont mess up when riding 😁
 
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Fat Rat said:
I could not agree more
I personally would not want a carbon frame over an Alloy let alone having to pay for the privilege
I chose alloy because that's what i wanted it wasn't a money thing.
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Our team can still send you an alloy frame, there would just be a wait. Also, you would get a matching battery cover, we wouldn't want you to have mismatched parts - if for any reason one doesn't arrive with it, let your retailer know and they can have that sent out.
 
Jschlueter said:
Just an update on my frame. Trek offered me a 9.7 frame for $250. I was told alloy frames would take months to get. I feel like they should send me what they have in stock free of charge but it is what it is. Hopefully they include a matching battery cover but not holding my breath.
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This is a decent upgrade in my opinion, but I also feel the $250 is adding salt to a wound.
I'd also look at then getting the frame wrapped for extra protection.
 
CordlezToaster said:
This is a decent upgrade in my opinion, but I also feel the $250 is adding salt to a wound.
I'd also look at then getting the frame wrapped for extra protection.
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CordlezToaster said:
don't think a carbon front triangle makes one bit of difference on a 50lb+ bike I didn't want to wait so I spent the $250. I do like the cable routing better on the carbon frames. Hopefully it shows by the end of the month. It will be Ridewrapped. I still feel like Trek should send whatever they have avaible. They used to send better replacements at no cost. These are expensive bikes even the alloy versions.
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InRustWeTrust said:
are you sure it's a crack in the frame and not just the paint that has flaked or cracked ?
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Was that not the problem as shown with the Giants ?. More due to flexing than actual damage to the alloy
Which is understandable, Paint hasn't the ability to flex, its brittle and any flex would cause it to crack.

Unless you can actually see inside where those 'cracks' are, you couldnt for 100% say they were alloy damage and not just paint damage.

That said. This is a pic of that area on my Scott genius, which shows that the area has a weld across it. So possibly Scott have foreseen that area flexing and put the weld in to prevent premature damage, or believe that continual flexing could lead to cracks forming.
DSCF4187.JPG
 
2WheelsNot4 said:
Was that not the problem as shown with the Giants ?. More due to flexing than actual damage to the alloy
Which is understandable, Paint hasn't the ability to flex, its brittle and any flex would cause it to crack.

Unless you can actually see inside where those 'cracks' are, you couldnt for 100% say they were alloy damage and not just paint damage.

That said. This is a pic of that area on my Scott genius, which shows that the area has a weld across it. So possibly Scott have foreseen that area flexing and put the weld in to prevent premature damage, or believe that continual flexing could lead to cracks forming.View attachment 99562
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Some people don't like to see welds like above and want the welds to be finished flat.

I DO want to see the welds because it is prima facie evidence of a solid joint. The weld should be as strong as or stronger than the two components welded together. "Finishing" welds can only weaken them.
 
irie said:
Some people don't like to see welds like above and want the welds to be finished flat.

I DO want to see the welds because it is prima facie evidence of a solid joint. The weld should be as strong as or stronger than the two components welded together. "Finishing" welds can only weaken them.
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In trek rail there is welds shown elsewhere, so the area having defects is not welded but bonded.
 
Juise said:
In trek rail there is welds shown elsewhere, so the area having defects is not welded but bonded.
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If that is the case then if necessary it should be 'over-bonded" for exactly the same reason. The bonding should be at least as strong as the strongest of the two materials being bonded
 
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