Bosch Kiox 400c Retro-Fit

[emtbPhil]

Starting a thread for people who may be interested in retro-fitting the new Bosch Kiox 400c and mini remote to older bikes that don't have the dedicated frame mount.

Received my Kiox and Mini Remote today to start doing some 3d print R&D

First off I can confirm (as the press release was a little vague) this works fine with the older Bosch Smart - specifically my motor is a BDU3741 - last gen Performance Line CX.
As you can see from the picture it also seems to work fine with the optional alarm/gps tracker unit which I have fitted.

My plans are to manufacture (through 3d printing) 2 types of mount - one will be a garmin mount allowing any ordinary garmin bar mount to be used so you can fit in front of bar, behind bar, etc...
The other will be a top cap replacement mount allowing the Kiox to be mounted on top of the headset

My primary motivation for this is that it's the first control unit for the older bosch bikes (without the frame cutout for the system controller) that allows the Mini Remote to be used... and I HATE all the other remotes, they're too big and clunky.

I'll update this thread with prototypes as I work through the process. They will be manufactured in carbon-fibre PLA or PETG to be weather/temperature resistant and nothing will go for sale until I've done enough testing that I know they won't fall off on the first jump!

 

[JP-NZ]

My primary motivation for this is that it's the first control unit for the older bosch bikes that allows the Mini Remote to be used... and I HATE all the other remotes, they're too big and clunky.

This isin't entirely correct just FYI. The previous system controller (BRC3100) as pictured could use the mini remote too. You'll actually find the oldest LED remote could connect and use a mini remote as well you just had to have the LED remote connected within the system.

 

[emtbPhil]

This isin't entirely correct just FYI. The previous system controller (BRC3100) as pictured could use the mini remote too. You'll actually find the oldest LED remote could connect and use a mini remote as well you just had to have the LED remote connected within the system.

View attachment 167831

You're entirely correct - I meant for the bikes that didn't have the frame cutout for the system controller
There's been a lot of hacks with people trying to shove the system controller in the frame and such... but now the Kiox 400c IS the system controller I think this is actually a nice upgrade
I'll clarify my original post

 

[crisillo]

m1 already offers one for the top of the stem with fidlock instead of garmin

https://m1-sporttechnik.eu/products/fidlock-halter-fur-bosch-kiox400c-display

personally I would like to see an adapter for the slot of the old system controller on the top tube, even if the 400c sticks out on top. Do you think that is possible?

 

[emtbPhil]

It would be possible but I don’t have one to model

The M1 adapter looks great but they only ship to a handful of countries and the UK isn’t one

I’ve made some good progress

 

[RJUK]

personally I would like to see an adapter for the slot of the old system controller on the top tube, even if the 400c sticks out on top. Do you think that is possible?

This. 100% this. Having all the cables routed neatly through the frame and just having the display sit a little proud on the top tube would be ideal. IMO much better than having it mounted on the bars where there would then be extra cables flapping about and the display is more at risk of damage.

I appreciate you looking into the compatibility of the display though, but it would be awesome if someone could make a high quality mount to convert the top tube controller to this top tube display.

 

[oldfartwannabembker]

This. 100% this. Having all the cables routed neatly through the frame and just having the display sit a little proud on the top tube would be ideal. IMO much better than having it mounted on the bars where there would then be extra cables flapping about and the display is more at risk of damage.

I appreciate you looking into the compatibility of the display though, but it would be awesome if someone could make a high quality mount to convert the top tube controller to this top tube display.

Because the 400C cable connector is at the front of the display you would still need the kiox cable to comeout of the hole/slot in the frame were the older controller sat in and then curl back on itself to plug into 400C and the 400C would be sitting abit more then a little proud on the top tube. You would also need a rubber seal between the 3d printed 400c housing to stop an rain/tap water,dirt,mud getting into the frame in the future. Just thinking about it now, the 3d housing would also need to have a set Hook at the top and an adjustable one at bottom to clamp it down onto the much thinner width hole in the frame so it can be fitted and removed If and when needed. Hope that makes sense because I'm not the best at explaining what I mean. Here's 2 images showing the 400C's cable connectors position and also how wide/thicker it is.

 

[RJUK]

Because the 400C cable connector is at the front of the display you would still need the kiox cable to comeout of the hole/slot in the frame were the older controller sat in and then curl back on itself to plug into 400C and the 400C would be sitting abit more then a little proud on the top tube. You would also need a rubber seal between the 3d printed 400c housing to stop an rain/tap water,dirt,mud getting into the frame in the future. Just thinking about it now, the 3d housing would also need to have a set Hook at the top and an adjustable one at bottom to clamp it down onto the much thinner width hole in the frame so it can be fitted and removed If and when needed. Hope that makes sense because I'm not the best at explaining what I mean. Here's 2 images showing the 400C's cable connectors position and also how wide/thicker it is.

View attachment 167984 View attachment 167985

My thought is that the "hump" made to house the display could have enough room in it at the top to accommodate the cable without it being seen. Since you'd also need to house/cover that silver metal clip inside the hump anyway.

No doubt it would probably end up being a bit unwieldy, but it would be good to see someone come up with a solution and see what it looked like.

For now I have a Purion 400 on the bars, so I'm far from desperate for another solution. The Purion 400 is pretty tidy and unintrusive already.

 

[oldfartwannabembker]

My thought is that the "hump" made to house the display could have enough room in it at the top to accommodate the cable without it being seen. Since you'd also need to house/cover that silver metal clip inside the hump anyway.

No doubt it would probably end up being a bit unwieldy, but it would be good to see someone come up with a solution and see what it looked like.

For now I have a Purion 400 on the bars, so I'm far from desperate for another solution. The Purion 400 is pretty tidy and unintrusive already.

View attachment 167986

IF/When someone did/does come up with a housing for 400C display to be mounted onto toptube I think a better use of the metal spring clip would be to add a 10-20mm straight section of plastic onto front bottom of mount to attach spring too which would fix the top mounting issue to hole in frame. As for an adjustable solution to clamping down the bottom of the housing to the frame using the screw is something I can not yet come up with.

 

[RJUK]

IF/When someone did/does come up with a housing for 400C display to be mounted onto toptube I think a better use of the metal spring clip would be to add a 10-20mm straight section of plastic onto front bottom of mount to attach spring too which would fix the top mounting issue to hole in frame. As for an adjustable solution to clamping down the bottom of the housing to the frame using the screw is something I can not yet come up with.

I guess you'd have to screw the mount down first into the existing hole, then screw the display into the mount afterwards. If that's what you mean. The system controller on my bike slots in at the bottom, then is secured by a single screw at the top. I think it also has a similar spring to the 400c, presumably to put some sort of pressure against the top tube so it doesn't rattle around.

 

[emtbPhil]

There's virtually no way it will ever adapt nicely into the old system controller for all of the reasons above

It's a lot bigger, the cable comes out the top of it, you'd need to weather seal it.
But most concerningly for me you'd be gripping into a carbon tube with a big chunk of display on the top. If you accidentally catch it there's a chance it would just crack the frame.

I'll be focusing on the one I have now as it's got a replaceable garmin mount on the back which means people can use any bracket they want. I've got a garmin top cap turning up tomorrow so I can try mounting it directly on the top of the stem.
Like RJUK has done I think the Purion 400 with smart controller combo is a really neat and tidy solution. I'm just focusing on us poor people who didn't even get a frame cutout

 

[emtbPhil]

This is what I have so far - it's V15 lol

I wanted the garmin mount to be removeable and easily replaceable - because if it snaps then you can buy a new mount for 60p from aliexpress instead of a whole new casing.

It's printed in PETG at the moment, should be fairly weather proof
I am going to add a tether to it so like my garmin, if people want to, they can add a tether to the bars in case the whole thing breaks off - better than losing a £200 kiox

I'll add pictures next week of it mounted on the top cap, which I think will look much more "integrated" but nothing will be for sale until I've had a day at the jump park and I'm certain it will last

 

[RJUK]

There's virtually no way it will ever adapt nicely into the old system controller for all of the reasons above

It's a lot bigger, the cable comes out the top of it, you'd need to weather seal it.
But most concerningly for me you'd be gripping into a carbon tube with a big chunk of display on the top. If you accidentally catch it there's a chance it would just crack the frame.

I'll be focusing on the one I have now as it's got a replaceable garmin mount on the back which means people can use any bracket they want. I've got a garmin top cap turning up tomorrow so I can try mounting it directly on the top of the stem.
Like RJUK has done I think the Purion 400 with smart controller combo is a really neat and tidy solution. I'm just focusing on us poor people who didn't even get a frame cutout

Would you need to weather seal it though? I assume it uses the same connections (or similar) to my Purion display, and that's mounted to the bars, fully open to the elements. Even the top tube controller isn't really weather sealed. I think maybe it has a thin rubber gasket, but nothing elaborate that couldn't be replicated here.

It's hard to tell if it would work without seeing how large the final result would be. I think you could chamfer the edges to reduce the likelihood of it getting caught, though I agree that it carries extra risk over a nicely countersunk switch.

Better would be if some smart person could make something like the old Levo top tube mini display that could clip into my top tube controller's normal space. However there's unlikely to be enough demand to make such a project worthwhile.

 

[emtbPhil]

Weather seal would be needed around the frame opening - or water/dirt is just going to get into the frame and down onto the motor

 

[RJUK]

Weather seal would be needed around the frame opening - or water/dirt is just going to get into the frame and down onto the motor

I'd think a thin rubber gasket like the one used with the regular top tube buttons would suffice. Muck gets in the downtube anyway and the motor is mostly exposed, so also gets wet and filthy.

 

[E-MAD MALC]

It would be possible but I don’t have one to model

The M1 adapter looks great but they only ship to a handful of countries and the UK isn’t one

I’ve made some good progress

View attachment 167904

Is it possible for you too create a housing to the contour of the top tube and mount ìt with 3M double sided tape to try and make it half look where they are getting installed on the bikes

 

[MMBB]

Should 3D print an adaptor to use the new bigger screen 400C into the top tube where the old button /lights is

 

[Paladini09]

Should 3D print an adaptor to use the new bigger screen 400C into the top tube where the old button /lights is

I think that’s the whole point of this thread

 

[Paladini09]

View attachment 168029

View attachment 168030

This is what I have so far - it's V15 lol

I wanted the garmin mount to be removeable and easily replaceable - because if it snaps then you can buy a new mount for 60p from aliexpress instead of a whole new casing.

It's printed in PETG at the moment, should be fairly weather proof
I am going to add a tether to it so like my garmin, if people want to, they can add a tether to the bars in case the whole thing breaks off - better than losing a £200 kiox

I'll add pictures next week of it mounted on the top cap, which I think will look much more "integrated" but nothing will be for sale until I've had a day at the jump park and I'm certain it will last

You’ve done well with that so far,I’ve got a stl I found that looks like the brc3100 and slots into the space in the toptube and it looks quite well made with regards to seal I reckon with that and yours together you could get a solution and get the cable from the 400c to drop through the stl I have and into the frame I think it would probably only be the bit where the cables drop through that would need attention with regards to sealing/weather proofing?

 

[VWsurfbum]

OK I'm on board with this project, so what do you need to get the 400c working on your bike? Is it plug and play?

 

[emtbPhil]

Good timing, I have a positive update to share

Went out last night for a blast round Sherwood Pines - Kiox worked perfectly, as did the mini remote and no issues with the holder.

With regards to upgrade - I removed my old setup, plugged the Kiox 400c in, paired the mini remote, installed firmware updates - everything works. I even have the alarm/tracker which is also working flawlessly. I have no doubt there is probably a device conflict logged that my LBS can clear when I take it in but no faults displayed and no issue with bike performance.

Next Step
Although there's no issues with mount on my first test ride, I do want to make a small change to the design and thicken up the walls slightly. I also will be doing a test version in carbon filament for better heat and impact resistance.
They won't be up on my ebay shop until I'm pretty satisfied that they are going to last for people - but I might offer a few at a reduced rate here if people want to adopt early and let me know how they get on

 

[emtbPhil]

Update
Have made a few small design tweaks - made the overall casing a little smaller, switched to using insert nuts
Other than that, the carbon filament version is working flawlessly

An important thing for me was to have the garmin mount seperate to the case, so in the case of an accident hopefully a replaceable garmin mount is a few pounds instead of a whole new case. So I've made a bulk order of 100 garmin mounts which will be arriving next week - as soon as they arrive I'll start making cases and get them listed on my ebay shop.
I'll put the link here when they are for sale

 

[Paladini09]

Update
Have made a few small design tweaks - made the overall casing a little smaller, switched to using insert nuts
Other than that, the carbon filament version is working flawlessly

An important thing for me was to have the garmin mount seperate to the case, so in the case of an accident hopefully a replaceable garmin mount is a few pounds instead of a whole new case. So I've made a bulk order of 100 garmin mounts which will be arriving next week - as soon as they arrive I'll start making cases and get them listed on my ebay shop.
I'll put the link here when they are for sale

 

[Paladini09]

Sounds good,how thin have you managed to get it now then ?

 

[emtbPhil]

Not much thinner. It’s flush with the actual module. Maybe 3-4mm but I wanted it to be the least bulky I could make it

 

[emtbPhil]

Happy with the final design now
Added a small cut out in the shell for clearance which dropped the overall height by 4mm
Heat insert nut for the main fixing bolt
Have got 50 of the gopro mounts in stock, so starting to print the cases

Will be on ebay with instructions tomorrow

 

[Paladini09]

Great work there mate,what’s the link to your eBay shop ? I’m printing a bracket will go into my toptube to replace the existing Bosch System Controller - Smart SystemView attachment 168904
View attachment 168905View attachment 168906

Happy with the final design now
Added a small cut out in the shell for clearance which dropped the overall height by 4mm
Heat insert nut for the main fixing bolt
Have got 50 of the gopro mounts in stock, so starting to print the cases

Will be on ebay with instructions tomorrow

View attachment 168904
View attachment 168905View attachment 168906

Happy with the final design now
Added a small cut out in the shell for clearance which dropped the overall height by 4mm
Heat insert nut for the main fixing bolt
Have got 50 of the gopro mounts in stock, so starting to print the cases

Will be on ebay with instructions tomorrow

That’s great work ! I’m printing a plate that goes into my toptube to replace the bc3100 system controller and I’ll have one of yours to adapt to my print so I can have it mounted on the toptube,what is your eBay shop called ?
Thanks

 

[emtbPhil]

visual-logic on eBay

Follow visual-logic on eBay. Buying, Selling, Collecting on eBay has never been more exciting!

ebay.us

Visual-Logic

I looked into whether I can do a discount code for the forum but I have to pay a monthly fee to eBay to get that functionality

I’ll list on here too if people would rather buy direct via PayPal and save a bit

I’m also working on launching a shopify site to save on ebay fees

 

[Paladini09]

visual-logic on eBay

Follow visual-logic on eBay. Buying, Selling, Collecting on eBay has never been more exciting!

ebay.us

Visual-Logic

I looked into whether I can do a discount code for the forum but I have to pay a monthly fee to eBay to get that functionality

I’ll list on here too if people would rather buy direct via PayPal and save a bit

I’m also working on launching a shopify site to save on ebay fees

I’ve looked on your eBay page but it’s still not up ? Are you still planning on listing it ?
Thanks

 

[emtbPhil]

Sorry mate I found an issue in last minute testing, made an update, then got a dose of "man flu"

Will be up in a few hours