Best motor to derestrict

[FoxyMushrooms]

Hey!

First post and rather new to this!

I am looking for my first emtb and pretty much my first bike in my adult life.

Being in the UK, I don't want to feel restricted with the 15.5mph limits seems as this bike will be used off road.

As I haven't made any commitments yet, I'm flexible in what motor to go for.

Currently I am looking at three bikes

Whyte Kado S (Bosch Gen5)
Specialised Levo 4
Trek Rail+ 8 G5 (Bosch Gen5)

From reading this forum, I'm not sold on the Specialsed due to the reliability issues. The Bosch looks like a solid option, but derestricting can soft brick the motor. The firmware flash to a US variation seems like the best option. Apart from the Polish friend, is there anyone else that can do this? I have seen the USB key (for Bosch Diagnostics) can be purchased, however I don't know how available the software is and whether that's a dynamic license key (attached to the USB). The US firmware doesn't seem readily available unless it's downloaded via the Bosch Tools, hence the need to spoof the location.

Is there a better motor I should be looking at? My budget is around 4-5k

Thanks

 

[Ark]

Shimano probably the easiest, unless things changed you can unlock them with a phone app, I think someone from this forum is the dev on one.
I own bosch and did the US firmware for a lot of euros.

 

[FoxyMushrooms]

I was looking at Canyon, but it looks as though they have swapped out the Shimano for a Bosch CX Gen 5. At least on their full fat ebikes.

I looked into FW flashing the Bosch Gen 5s, looks like it's almost impossible to do without outside help. The HW bypasses seem rather hit and miss, and I dont feel too comfortable with having a soft bricked motor, and hoping that my local shop will clear the codes. Wouldn't be too worried if I could remove those codes myself though, but that doesn't seem possible.

The DJI motor on the Amflow looks impressive, and apparently reasonably easy to do with location spoofing. That does come with dangers of the loophole being pulled and being locked back to a less desirable region. There's also no working HW mods for this (yet).

Feels like I am down to two options:-
Get a Bosch Gen 5 motor on either the Rail or the Whyte. I am concerned that the Whyte has a rotated motor and does the stock FW take this into consideration (I doubt it TBH). Then pay to have this flashed with a NZ Firmware.

Go with the Amflow and the DJI motor, use the VPN bypass and hope that it doesn't call home and send off it's location. This does blow my budget out the water, and is most definitely overkill. I will need to work out the maths on this one.

 

[Astro66]

In top of the range motors. Shimano EP801 is the easiest. You can do it yourself with the EMax software. It allows you to set the region to USA Class 3, giving you 45kph. It costs 119 Euros.

Next, in my experience, is the Avinox motor in the Amflow. You can change the region just using a VPN, giving you 45kph as well. You can do it for free, by cancelling the VPN after the change.

I have done both of these on 2025 EMTBs myself, very simply. There have been no issues or errors created. There are threads on here, about how to do it safely.

The problem with all motors is that manufactures are continually putting out patches to close off restriction loop holes. Be very careful. You can brick your brand new motor if you get it wrong.

 

[Ark]

Get a Bosch Gen 5 motor on either the Rail or the Whyte. I am concerned that the Whyte has a rotated motor and does the stock FW take this into consideration (I doubt it TBH). Then pay to have this flashed with a NZ Firmware.

I have a Whyte E-160s from 2022/23
the motor feels no different with some random generic cube firmware.
you just need a computer/usb cable, 180 euros and the whatsapp for one of the people who to it.
you can probably find adverts via google, actual bosch dealers do it, but there not supposed to so your warranty is likely gone, even if the motor says it was last serviced by an official bosch dealer and the motor has the shops name, address, contact details etc baked in.
I waited till my motor was out of warranty anyway,
btw if you do the firmware thing, you can;'t manually update via the phone or it goes back to UK speeds., although someone claims they did it via a vpn on an apple phone.

The guy does flash the most recent firmware though, it's not some out of date crap and you never have to worry about limp mode.

but that's pretty much the same for any workarounds as well, they are made for specific firmwares, new firmwares get released and defeat them so you can't update.

 

[B-man]

Levo Gen 3 with a Planet3 is by far the easiest.

 

[Excalibur]

Hey!

First post and rather new to this!

I am looking for my first emtb and pretty much my first bike in my adult life.

Being in the UK, I don't want to feel restricted with the 15.5mph limits seems as this bike will be used off road.

As I haven't made any commitments yet, I'm flexible in what motor to go for.

Currently I am looking at three bikes

Whyte Kado S (Bosch Gen5)
Specialised Levo 4
Trek Rail+ 8 G5 (Bosch Gen5)

From reading this forum, I'm not sold on the Specialsed due to the reliability issues. The Bosch looks like a solid option, but derestricting can soft brick the motor. The firmware flash to a US variation seems like the best option. Apart from the Polish friend, is there anyone else that can do this? I have seen the USB key (for Bosch Diagnostics) can be purchased, however I don't know how available the software is and whether that's a dynamic license key (attached to the USB). The US firmware doesn't seem readily available unless it's downloaded via the Bosch Tools, hence the need to spoof the location.

Is there a better motor I should be looking at? My budget is around 4-5k

Thanks

Remember Bosch know that you have a Speedbox fitted and it shows up in your data also it will damage your motor and will not be guaranteed under warranty I would not recommend fitting one.

 

[ottoshape]

Shimano FTW

With that said, isn't the amflow config just a matter of selecting New Zealand and then the volume goes all the way to 11???

 

[Bmbatley]

Remember Bosch know that you have a Speedbox fitted and it shows up in your data also it will damage your motor and will not be guaranteed under warranty I would not recommend fitting one.

Just to point out, it doesn't damage the motor, it will add more wear and tear. A derestricted uk one will be similar to a US version for the wear and tear.

 

[Bmbatley]

Hey!

First post and rather new to this!

I am looking for my first emtb and pretty much my first bike in my adult life.

Being in the UK, I don't want to feel restricted with the 15.5mph limits seems as this bike will be used off road.

As I haven't made any commitments yet, I'm flexible in what motor to go for.

Currently I am looking at three bikes

Whyte Kado S (Bosch Gen5)
Specialised Levo 4
Trek Rail+ 8 G5 (Bosch Gen5)

From reading this forum, I'm not sold on the Specialsed due to the reliability issues. The Bosch looks like a solid option, but derestricting can soft brick the motor. The firmware flash to a US variation seems like the best option. Apart from the Polish friend, is there anyone else that can do this? I have seen the USB key (for Bosch Diagnostics) can be purchased, however I don't know how available the software is and whether that's a dynamic license key (attached to the USB). The US firmware doesn't seem readily available unless it's downloaded via the Bosch Tools, hence the need to spoof the location.

Is there a better motor I should be looking at? My budget is around 4-5k

Thanks

Bafang are one of the easiest ones to do. Yamaha will be one of the easier ones to do. Non-smart bosch systems are easy to do. The smart systems can be done but would not show accurate mileage and speed. And it also depends if you have one with a rim magnet (block on valve) or one with a more traditional style magnet.

 

[Excalibur]

I should have said wear instead of damaged you're right I was told that it's not advisable to fit one by the seller at the bike shop.

Just to point out, it doesn't damage the motor, it will add more wear and tear. A derestricted uk one will be similar to a US version for the wear and tear.

S

 

[Bmbatley]

I should have said wear instead of damaged you're right I was told that it's not advisable to fit one by the seller at the bike shop.

They tell you that because they will be held liable for it. The shop I used to go to sell the tuning boxes and will fit them and still honor the warranty. During the pandemic, I had a cube with the gen 4 cx motor that went after a month with speedbox fitted. They had the motor swapped out under warranty and bosch replaced it no question. When I asked what killed it, thinking it was the speedbox tbat did it. They said it was the software update from 75nm to 85nm that locked the motor. At the time there were issues with the update. Got the new motor fitted the same tuning box back in and it was fine.

 

[martyfrommonmouth]

I was looking at Canyon, but it looks as though they have swapped out the Shimano for a Bosch CX Gen 5. At least on their full fat ebikes.

I looked into FW flashing the Bosch Gen 5s, looks like it's almost impossible to do without outside help. The HW bypasses seem rather hit and miss, and I dont feel too comfortable with having a soft bricked motor, and hoping that my local shop will clear the codes. Wouldn't be too worried if I could remove those codes myself though, but that doesn't seem possible.

The DJI motor on the Amflow looks impressive, and apparently reasonably easy to do with location spoofing. That does come with dangers of the loophole being pulled and being locked back to a less desirable region. There's also no working HW mods for this (yet).

Feels like I am down to two options:-
Get a Bosch Gen 5 motor on either the Rail or the Whyte. I am concerned that the Whyte has a rotated motor and does the stock FW take this into consideration (I doubt it TBH). Then pay to have this flashed with a NZ Firmware.

Go with the Amflow and the DJI motor, use the VPN bypass and hope that it doesn't call home and send off it's location. This does blow my budget out the water, and is most definitely overkill. I will need to work out the maths on this one.

Go with the Amflow. Get a secondhand one if you can't afford new.

I made the mistake of buying Bosch Gen 5 rim magnet version.

The only reliable option for that is as you say flash firmware.

The chips just will get you locked out eventually and all have caveats. Mine was a real pain in the arse and ruined my enjoyment of the bike.

I'll never buy a Bosch again. I'll be getting a DJI powered bike next year.

I'll sell you my Cube 177 SLX For £3000 if you wanted Gen 5. It's done less than 100 miles.

Unfortunately I can't sell it until early next year as it was bought on cycle to work scheme and I don't officially own it until then. Can't wait to get rid of it.

 

[neils]

Levo Gen 3 with Levociraptor gen 3 (plug & play). Spec motors are very reliable now. You can' t beat it, especially given your budget.

 

[B-man]

Specialized gen4 and pick class 3.

 

[4DXP]

Remember Bosch know that you have a Speedbox fitted and it shows up in your data also it will damage your motor and will not be guaranteed under warranty I would not recommend fitting one.

Oh please, dont misinform

 

[4DXP]

So I drove my derestricted Cannondale for 4 years. Loved it. Bosch Performance CX gen 4 with Speedbox chip. mostly once a ride the motor would turn off when you did this on turbo the whole drive. As my skill grew I studied what would be the best bike for me and I decided I would have no financial limit. Seems that the best is the Shimano ep801 as you can set it to 45kmh with Emax Tuning software. As dealers are dumping them I found one with 4000 euro discount. I figured, I would buy an extra ep801 motor as backup for around 600 euros, which I did. I added the electric Di2 derailleur and now have an amazing experience and no wories about future problems. Avinox or Bosch bikes dont give this software possibility and no discount deals for top segment bikes.
25kmh is just too stupid for mountainbiking. Come on... This is hurting the potential sales of eMTB in a major way. I could live with 32kmh but it would hurt already.

 

[RickBullotta]

Easy answer: Avinox, as long as you use their firmware and settings and don't make any hardware mods (which are unnecessary in most cases, and would surely void your warranty).

 

[Excalibur]

Oh please, dont misinform

This is not miss information I was advised not to fit a speedbox by the shop I bought the bike from as it would burn the motor out at high speed and also be dangerous altering the speed of the bike.

 

[DylanJM]

This is not miss information I was advised not to fit a speedbox by the shop I bought the bike from as it would burn the motor out at high speed and also be dangerous altering the speed of the bike.

Emtb motors are well capable of supporting up to 50kmh. Bosch even offer a speed pedelec version of their motor that comes with a 45kmh limit from the factory.

The reason shops and manufactures advise against derestriction devices is to prevent legal issues coming back on them.

 

[4DXP]

This is not miss information I was advised not to fit a speedbox by the shop I bought the bike from as it would burn the motor out at high speed and also be dangerous altering the speed of the bike.

Then you were misinformed by that person. I have been racing unrestriced for 4 years with it. Nothing happened with the motor. Thousands of people doing this.

 

[Excalibur]

Emtb motors are well capable of supporting up to 50kmh. Bosch even offer a speed pedelec version of their motor that comes with a 45kmh limit from the factory.

The reason shops and manufactures advise against derestriction devices is to prevent legal issues coming back on them.

Thank you for your helpful advice and I will take what you say about the speedbox I am only going on what I was advised when enquiring about having one fitted.

 

[steve_sordy]

Until I read this thread, I had thought that the Bosch gen 5 could not be derestricted. Is that no longer true?

 

[Bmbatley]

Until I read this thread, I had thought that the Bosch gen 5 could not be derestricted. Is that no longer true?

They can. But being a smart system. The speedo is out and doesn't show correct the mileage ridden.

 

[steve_sordy]

They can. But being a smart system. The speedo is out and doesn't show correct the mileage ridden.

Inetresting, can Bosch or their service agents tell that the motor has been derestricted?

 

[Bmbatley]

Inetresting, can Bosch or their service agents tell that the motor has been derestricted?

People say the can. My previous local bike shop honours the warranty even if tuning box was fitted. I had a bosch cx motor swapped out under warranty and that has a speedbox fitted at the time. Bosch didnt say anything, so I'm guessing probably not. Unless others have had different experiences that says other wise

 

[DylanJM]

Bosch and others absolutely do build chip detection. I'm pretty sure the whole issue with smart system derestriction is how good Bosch are at detecting it. Some manufactures make more effort than others. Specialized for example don't really seem to care and just do the bare minimum.

Best post on the topic:

How To Derestrict An Electric Bike [Engineer's Perspective] - PLANET3

Alex rants on about all things e-bike derestriction related!

www.planet3.bike

 

[4DXP]

People say the can. My previous local bike shop honours the warranty even if tuning box was fitted. I had a bosch cx motor swapped out under warranty and that has a speedbox fitted at the time. Bosch didnt say anything, so I'm guessing probably not. Unless others have had different experiences that says other wise

I dont think so. I had Speedbox and removed it before service. No peep from them

 

[Bmbatley]

I didn't say they do. I said other people says it does. The experience that I have had says they can't or don't check. As I haven't heard anyone with experience saying other wise.

I dont think so. I had Speedbox and removed it before service. No peep from them

 

[Mario Antony]

Hey!

First post and rather new to this!

I am looking for my first emtb and pretty much my first bike in my adult life.

Being in the UK, I don't want to feel restricted with the 15.5mph limits seems as this bike will be used off road.

As I haven't made any commitments yet, I'm flexible in what motor to go for.

Currently I am looking at three bikes

Whyte Kado S (Bosch Gen5)
Specialised Levo 4
Trek Rail+ 8 G5 (Bosch Gen5)

From reading this forum, I'm not sold on the Specialsed due to the reliability issues. The Bosch looks like a solid option, but derestricting can soft brick the motor. The firmware flash to a US variation seems like the best option. Apart from the Polish friend, is there anyone else that can do this? I have seen the USB key (for Bosch Diagnostics) can be purchased, however I don't know how available the software is and whether that's a dynamic license key (attached to the USB). The US firmware doesn't seem readily available unless it's downloaded via the Bosch Tools, hence the need to spoof the location.

Is there a better motor I should be looking at? My budget is around 4-5k

Thanks

Levo4 is 48V system and the most customazible ebike. Also Specialized has one of the best warranties out there.

I'd definitely add some bikes there:
DJI motor ebike
Giant Reign (the new with 48V system)