Berd Spokes and Ebikes

[F4Flyer]

I just feel the weight difference, mainly. I have several wheel sets...mostly carbon, one aluminum, but only one with Berd spokes I'd not run it on anything but a bike looking for weight savings, or a gravel bike for the same reason plus a touch of compliance. I like my carbon rims with CX Rays or D-Lights but the Berd drops some decent weight for the race bike.

 

[TTEngineer]

Any ideas on how to flex or tension the entire wheel during the process. I understand that the berd spokes need a few days for stretching before they reach length and or strength. A press system of some sort? Other than by hand or an expensive hydraulic tool.

My round garbage can/bin is the perfect diameter for changing tires …but .

Edit; A homemade solution?

That’s not the experience I see in practice.

I’m not a wheel builder, nor have I ever tried. It’s the only part on my bike I don’t personally mess with.

Having said that, like previously mentioned, my 1st set was built by a local builder. He took a week. I haven’t had any issues with that set.

2nd set was Berd Built. No issues as of yet either.

Personally, I don’t think a few extra days of tensioning is really a big deal. Just take the extra time and make sure it’s right.

 

[TTEngineer]

Berd spokes are nice but on a longer travel bike, you may not see the advantage and they will be higher maintenance. In fact, for eMTBs like most ride, I prefer alloy rims and normal spokes. The comfort is great with alloy and I do not want very stiff wheels so carbon is not necessary for me. On every other regular MTB, Berd makes sense. They are light for climbing and on my short travel 120mm bike, they add a bit (not a huge amount with the new Hawk 30 Gold wheelset which is stiffer than their regular Hawk 30) of comfort over long rocky rides.

If I were to build a wheelset for my eMTB, I'd go with alloy rims or slightly compliant carbon rims, Sapim D-Light spokes or equivalent, and DT or Chris King hubs. I have used Onyx as well. Good luck!

“Stiffness” is such a subjective feel though.

At 6’+ 250lbs, I’m not sure I’ve ever truly felt a super stiff wheel. The carbon rims I have (Reserve and Hawk30X) are known to be “stiff” but to me they feel amazing.

I think rider weight plays the biggest part in this.

A rider at 140lbs will get a completely different experience on a wheel set than I would on the same set.

Additionally both sets are on longer travel bikes (1500mm and 180mm). The compliance and damping is mind boggling. Easily the best upgrade to the ride experience since dropper posts.

 

[F4Flyer]

I have ridden some horribly stiff carbon wheels...the early ENVEs were awful and bone-jarring. Then they figured it out and made the more complaint. The. new ENVE rims are really good. Even the first Reserve rims were pretty stiff and unforgiving. Over the years, they have all become more compliant and even mention the compliance.

That is the one thing about alloy rims....they are usually nice and complaint though don't generally track as precisely in fast rocky downhill sections. On the MTBs (and I run 1.5-2 extra PSI on the eMTB due to the piggish weight) I run 19/20 PSI in the front with 30mm wide rims and 23/24 PSI in the rear tire. I usually run 2.4 tires. I do need a new wheelset for my gravel bike and want to go light. The alloy set is so comfy but I bet a Berd wheelset will get me down to sub 1,200 grams without going super light on the rims. My current wheels weight around 1,700 grams. That would be a huge drop in rotating weight and where Berds woudl excel. I need to research a bit. I may chance going with one of the Chinese seller like Light Bicycle on the gravel bike.

Also one other thing...I think the Hawk 30 Gold (sub 1,100 grams) is basically a racing wheelset and I suspect they (the rims) are purposely built firmer than Berd's usual sets. That may be why I do not feel much of a difference between it and my other racing wheelset (Bontrager XXX Kovee) which was around 1,300 grams and 24 spokes. I;d like to try the regular Hawk 30 but with a stable of nine bikes, I already spend too much.

 

[Stihldog]

I suppose I used the wrong terminology for wheel lacing …I meant stress relief. That’s a critical step in any wheel building process, but I don’t have the hydraulic, accurate, repeatable, costly, large, scientific, or even the extra space for a machine like that in the bike cave. It would make sense for a regular wheel builder to have one. Most local Bike Shop’s don’t.

Seldom, spokes on new wheels , or on a new bike, are stressed or tensioned properly. After a few rides things begin to settle. Spokes act like spaghetti noodles or simply break if not checked after an aggressive ride.

I’ve seen one stress relief tool in a local Bike Shop. It looked like a wooden round table and flexed/ stressed/ stretched a newly laced wheel like a sandwich …but used a long lever and fulcrum system. It didn’t crush the wheel precisely, but I could make that for a much lower price out of plywood and a bit of hardware.

Anyone else seen something like that? Ideas? Plans?

Btw; I made this. Anyone know what it is?


Hint; you shake it.

A-I know but afraid to say.
B-I have no idea.
C-what a waste of time.
D-I want one.

 

[andreaverona]

Texile spoke and light alloy rims should be a nice spot

 

[FrogSkunk]

I’m running the classic hub from onyx.

I know another member claims his weren’t laterally stiff but I honestly think his weren’t tensioned correctly. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard say that. Anecdotally, Macky Franklin from YouTube (Syd and Macky) runs Berd on all his bikes and he holds KOM dissents on most trails in New Mexico. Thats a pretty good measure of durability and capability if you ask me.

I actually emailed Berd last week, not to complain, but simply to share my experience and see if they had any thoughts. NOBL built my wheels, so I have to assume they were assembled correctly. That said, anything is possible.

Unfortunately, my experience was short lived. About 10 miles into my very first ride, one of the spoke inserts(anchor?) pulled out of the rear hub. Because it was the rear wheel, I continued riding the front while NOBL repaired the rear, so I ended up with considerably more time on the front wheel.

After I got the rear wheel back, a different insert pulled out of the same hub just 6 miles into its next ride. Both failures were on the brake side of the rear hub.

That was ultimately what made me move away from the setup. Both rides on the rear wheel ended prematurely. To be clear, I’m not saying the Berd spokes themselves were the problem. If I had been running the hook-flanged Onyx Classics from the beginning, I’d probably still be giving them a shot.

The only aspect of the ride quality I wasn’t crazy about was during heavy compressions, g-outs, or off-camber landings. The bike would develop an unsettled feeling, almost like a wobble, where I’d momentarily lose confidence while the wheels seemed to regain their composure. Initially, I assumed it was the radial tires or even the Crestline frame, since I’d seen comments about the bike feeling flexy.

Since having the wheels re-laced with steel spokes, that sensation has completely disappeared. The spokes are the only variable that changed.

Anyway, that’s just my experience. I seem to be the outlier here.

For reference, I’m 215 lb fully geared up, running NOBL TR37 rims with Onyx Vesper hubs.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I actually emailed Berd last week, not to complain, but simply to share my experience and see if they had any thoughts. NOBL built my wheels, so I have to assume they were assembled correctly. That said, anything is possible.

Unfortunately, my experience was short lived. About 10 miles into my very first ride, one of the spoke inserts(anchor?) pulled out of the rear hub. Because it was the rear wheel, I continued riding the front while NOBL repaired the rear, so I ended up with considerably more time on the front wheel.

After I got the rear wheel back, a different insert pulled out of the same hub just 6 miles into its next ride. Both failures were on the brake side of the rear hub.

That was ultimately what made me move away from the setup. Both rides on the rear wheel ended prematurely. To be clear, I’m not saying the Berd spokes themselves were the problem. If I had been running the hook-flanged Onyx Classics from the beginning, I’d probably still be giving them a shot.

The only aspect of the ride quality I wasn’t crazy about was during heavy compressions, g-outs, or off-camber landings. The bike would develop an unsettled feeling, almost like a wobble, where I’d momentarily lose confidence while the wheels seemed to regain their composure. Initially, I assumed it was the radial tires or even the Crestline frame, since I’d seen comments about the bike feeling flexy.

Since having the wheels re-laced with steel spokes, that sensation has completely disappeared. The spokes are the only variable that changed.

Anyway, that’s just my experience. I seem to be the outlier here.

For reference, I’m 215 lb fully geared up, running NOBL TR37 rims with Onyx Vesper hubs.

I find Berds to be extremely reliable but I think their place is on cross country bikes, hardtails and the like.
I get the exact same sensation you describe but all over the place, turns, jumps & what not and I'm only 180 lb.
That said I love them on my 140 trail bike that has cross-country tires. I will only occasionally get the sensation on that bike.
I had them on my Relay for a while and they could be downright scary at very specific moments. Just the combination of higher weight, more travel, grippier tires, and the way I was using that bike would bring those bad traits out.

 

[Onetime]

I find Berds to be extremely reliable but I think their place is on cross country bikes, hardtails and the like.
I get the exact same sensation you describe but all over the place, turns, jumps & what not and I'm only 180 lb.
That said I love them on my 140 trail bike that has cross-country tires. I will only occasionally get the sensation on that bike.
I had them on my Relay for a while and they could be downright scary at very specific moments. Just the combination of higher weight, more travel, grippier tires, and the way I was using that bike would bring those bad traits out.

Sounds like yours were not properly tensioned.

 

[FrogSkunk]

I find Berds to be extremely reliable but I think their place is on cross country bikes, hardtails and the like.
I get the exact same sensation you describe but all over the place, turns, jumps & what not and I'm only 180 lb.
That said I love them on my 140 trail bike that has cross-country tires. I will only occasionally get the sensation on that bike.
I had them on my Relay for a while and they could be downright scary at very specific moments. Just the combination of higher weight, more travel, grippier tires, and the way I was using that bike would bring those bad traits out.

After doing to hard investigative research(Google AI), I think I found my answer…

The PolyLightX spokes weren't available back in January when I placed my order.

 

[F4Flyer]

I have the same feeling with my Hawk 30 Golds. I even emailed them about it and they did not offer any explanation or acknowledge this. It happens on sudden jumps when I am going fast downhill and pop up in the air after a dip or catch a little air off a bump.

 

[TTEngineer]

After doing to hard investigative research(Google AI), I think I found my answer…
View attachment 188126View attachment 188127View attachment 188128


The PolyLightX spokes weren't available back in January when I placed my order.

Granted I don’t really ride my Ripmo super hard at the park, and it has the OG version of spokes, I still haven’t felt that sensation. And I’m 250lbs.

The Crestline has the PolyX spokes, so the thicker version, and I’ve been super happy up to now.

I’m not a super playful rider either. I’m not shralpin burms or smacking them high center, so that may also be a factor.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Sounds like yours were not properly tensioned.

All 3 sets of my Berds were built by Charlie and the other guys at Berd.
Once again. I'm a HUGE fan of the product, love them in the right application, and they even have newer ones for DH applications I believe.
However, the originals were not ideal for me on my e-bike.