Thats not quite correct, Bosch did a good work in getting rid of rattling due to backlash in its Gen 5.
Avinox M2s rattle
- Thread starter Rob209
- Start date
There’s literally a Bosch gen 5 rattle thread on the what’s new page right now. But yeah overall seems they did better after gen 4.
We’re still only on 2nd avinox motor so maybe next year when the 8th avinox motor comes out the rattle will be gone lol
That is absolutely correct, Gen 5 is not heavier than Gen 4 and is dead silent, so far...
Alright guys, I’ve now got my Mondraker Zendit RR with the M2S motor. The hub has a 20-degree engagement angle. I’ve done my first 30 km, and the whole thing runs absolutely silently. Honestly, it’s no comparison to my previous Bosch CX4 Race.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise: this motor is awesome — way better than the Bosch CX4 and CX5 in my opinion. The geometry is identical to the previous model, and yes, I bought this bike specifically because I wanted a quiet downhill ride.
Previous bike: Canyon StriveOn CFR Ltd with CX4 Race.
If I get the chance, I’ll post a video.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise: this motor is awesome — way better than the Bosch CX4 and CX5 in my opinion. The geometry is identical to the previous model, and yes, I bought this bike specifically because I wanted a quiet downhill ride.
Previous bike: Canyon StriveOn CFR Ltd with CX4 Race.
If I get the chance, I’ll post a video.
If a Gen 5 rattles it's malfunctioning and a warrantable replacement is available.
I read once that the Gen 5 has essentially a perfect reliability history.
It's more likely to be a misdiagnosed cable rattle or the like.
I guess that's why the Gen 5 pedals so freely when it's not engaged because it disconnects completely?
alexwald
New Member
- May 14, 2026
- 12
- 7
hell yeah for the Avinox.
Firstly, the ability to un-restrict the thing is a big plus in my book;
the access road to the trail centre/system behind my house is paved, so when I ride alone, I have the ability to get to the top in a jiffy. my top speed on the uphill with smaller gradients is around 38-41Km/h, on steeper parts it would drop to 27Km/h, I guess the limits of M1. all my friends ride Bosch 4th or 5th gen with the EU limit at max 25Km/h, so for group rides I use less assistance / lower programs to adapt.
controversy or no controversy, I'd rather have the option to do this than not.
secondly, the looks.
other full-power motors just look bad, are crazy bulky, not to mention what their battery design does to the bottom tube. call me shallow, but I can't help it, I hate fugly bikes.
no previous E, got here from an acoustic YT Capra.
Thats quite a bit. On a bike with ~485mm chainstay this translates into roughly 150mm suspension travel within the free play of the pawls. Its a bit idealized though but should make every motor practically dead silent.
They must be making a killing with Avinox popularity
Yes, that’s a large engagement angle, but that doesn’t automatically make the hub quiet. On my old Bosch CX4 Race, I ran an O-Chain with a 12-degree setup, but it only made a slight difference.
That's a dope bike and I hope it remains silent. However, the motor has too low of kms to know.
And this...low engagement hub is going to reduce pedal feedback, and therefore noise.
Mario Antony
Active member
With all the talk with Avinox, FB just though I would be interested on what it can make to freehubs:
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6K views · 52 reactions | These Wheels Are PERFECT! #eMTB #MountainBiking #CyclingTech #BikeLife #RideStrong | Evan's MTB Saga
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I agree those combinations can impact all of the drivetrain, that's why I decided on the lower engagement hubs from NOBL rather than onyx. It took a while to figure out but on my SB140 the chain slap was horrendous. I tried different derailleurs and it was always terrible. Finally I figured out that with their infinity link, the suspension movement and the instant engagement hub caused lots of kickback which translates into chain slap when you're 200 pounds and your pedals don't move when the suspension compresses.
However, Rob's experience and confirmation of being a heavier rider on lots of different hubs, derailleurs, terrain, etc... AND Avinox clearly making a big deal about making the M2s "silent" vs the M2 which is just a mild upgrade of the M1 which is supposed to also be quieter than the M1, but not silent. With all that, it seems to point at luck of the draw. But I'm no expert.
mhueschen
New Member
yes @slickrock I agree that PK isn't necessary to achieve anti-squat. but it seems for the Forbidden frames (and other popular eMTB frames in the current moment), they do indeed have PK in proportion to their AS.
as far as how much it matters to the ride experience, I personally don't notice the rattle or care about it much. I have heard it in videos, but not very loud.
I love the M1 and think it's a great motor and consider any noise a minor negative.
I was replying here to give information for those who seem more bothered by rattles.
the thing I care most about is the negative impact of PK on the rear suspension in creeping steep low-speed chunky impacts (common here in Bellingham). that is why I'm trying the chain damper.
on the eDruid with the idler pulley, I think whipping is less of a factor. so I just want the pedal kickback elimination/reduction function.
as far as how much it matters to the ride experience, I personally don't notice the rattle or care about it much. I have heard it in videos, but not very loud.
I love the M1 and think it's a great motor and consider any noise a minor negative.
I was replying here to give information for those who seem more bothered by rattles.
the thing I care most about is the negative impact of PK on the rear suspension in creeping steep low-speed chunky impacts (common here in Bellingham). that is why I'm trying the chain damper.
on the eDruid with the idler pulley, I think whipping is less of a factor. so I just want the pedal kickback elimination/reduction function.
mhueschen
New Member
AIUI, the issue with low engagement hubs is that you get inconsistent degrees of freedom at the hub. sometimes it kicks, other times not. better but not a full solution.
also, chain whipping could be worse with the ability for the cassette to rotate forwards and "feed slack to be whipped". this is an issue with hub based PK solutions (Sidekick and DT DoF) also. and those also multiply the float by the gear ratio which makes it much bigger in low gears, where I want it small.
chainring-based PK solution buffers kickback and chain whipping, while keeping a consistent float angle at the crank. IMO this is the best solution
(I don't have any financial interest in these products, it just seems like this is the reality)
also, chain whipping could be worse with the ability for the cassette to rotate forwards and "feed slack to be whipped". this is an issue with hub based PK solutions (Sidekick and DT DoF) also. and those also multiply the float by the gear ratio which makes it much bigger in low gears, where I want it small.
chainring-based PK solution buffers kickback and chain whipping, while keeping a consistent float angle at the crank. IMO this is the best solution
(I don't have any financial interest in these products, it just seems like this is the reality)
Exactly, it's a difficult thing to quantify out in the wild. I'm sure some people think because my location is in FL, that I'm rattling on smooth trails. But we have lots of roots and rocks to deal with on our trails. We don't have "descents", we have punchy ups and downs and on the downs, the motor is very chatty. If I coast over roots on the flat, smooth part of the trail, same chatter. If I pedal over the same section of trail, no noise. If I'm pedaling over the same trail at a high cadence (motor not providing full power) there is the same chatter, but muted to just barely audible. That muted sound is what I expected when descending based on review videos.
I'm a well traveled rider and I aspire to a silent bike, which is why I generally opt Onyx hubs. My Transition Relay was not quite at first, but that was cable management. That was easily sorted with some medium density foam. Then it was silent for a long while. When I was in Peru, I did 88,000ft of descending in 8 days with the Relay and it was dead silent. No cable rattle, no motor rattle. But after about 1500miles, the rattle started in softly and began to be louder. I certainly didn't care for it, but dealt with it as it's not so loud that when someone rides it they even notice it. I suppose it's somewhat forgivable since it appears to have happened with age and use.
The Avinox I'm riding now which is literally just 60ish miles on it started rattling from the first time I coasted down something mildly chunky. I'm not at all happy about it and if I can get a replacement motor, I'm down for it. But while it's a bit louder than my Relay, it's makes all the same types of nosies when going over the same type of terrain and unfortunately, I've learned to cope with that added chatter. It makes it difficult to focus when it sounds like your bike is dropping nuts and bolts on each rear suspension impact. I need all the focus I can get. LoL
Moving to Utah in a couple months so my sand base trails are about to change to loose over hard pack and rocks everywhere. The chatter is only going to increase.
alexwald
New Member
- May 14, 2026
- 12
- 7
never knew... wow. I went through the forum pages and man, I start to gravitate towards the belief that no rattle e-bike is a myth.
I've asked my ride buddies about their gen4/gen5 rattle issues if any, and they all swore under oath they hear nothing.
I've also questioned my (singular) buddy with an Amflow, no rattle. I have yet to ride their steeds to confirm or deny.
very true. low-engagement hubs are often considered as a cheap PK avoidance tool, whereas it's more of a radom PK avoidance tool
100% agree. I just reached out to Rimpact to see if their Avinox chain damper is compatible with the M2s and my cranks.
slickrock
Well-known member
I would suggest claiming this right away as a warranty issue with Crestline (assuming that's your bike). The more these claims hit Avinox, the more they can't sweep it under the rug.
mhueschen
New Member
could you share the math behind the calculation? seems like a handy thing to know!
also curious if you assumed a 1:1 gear ratio for this?
part of my avoidance of hub-based PK devices is that the gear ratio causes the crank float to increase in big cogs and decrease in small cogs. in a middle cog like 21t, assuming a 34t chainring,
20 * (21/34) = 12.4 degrees of crank float. in a small cog like 14t it becomes 20 * (14/34) = 8.2 degrees of crank float. at those higher speeds it usually is hard to engage the hub ratchet anyways though.Yes that's why i wrote its a bit idealized.
Ok. I did a big ride yesterday on my M1 Amflow. I was going down this rooty, rough section, and I thought I heard something rattle. I can't be sure. It was like 2 clicks.
I'm reminded of this sailor mate of mine, who used to sail his Beneteau 40 solo. He used to wear noise cancelling headphones during storms, to reduce anxiety. He said that being a marine engineer, if he heard all the noises, he would catastrophize about what's going on.
If it wasn't for this thread, I would have never taken any notice of any of the noises, because I have ridden some of the rattliest motors every produced, and not cared an ounce. But now I listen for every sound, and those 2 sounds have ruined my riding experience. I blame you lot .......
I'm reminded of this sailor mate of mine, who used to sail his Beneteau 40 solo. He used to wear noise cancelling headphones during storms, to reduce anxiety. He said that being a marine engineer, if he heard all the noises, he would catastrophize about what's going on.
If it wasn't for this thread, I would have never taken any notice of any of the noises, because I have ridden some of the rattliest motors every produced, and not cared an ounce. But now I listen for every sound, and those 2 sounds have ruined my riding experience. I blame you lot .......
Mario Antony
Active member
Time to ride with noise canceling headphones! AhahhaahOk. I did a big ride yesterday on my M1 Amflow. I was going down this rooty, rough section, and I thought I heard something rattle. I can't be sure. It was like 2 clicks.
I'm reminded of this sailor mate of mine, who used to sail his Beneteau 40 solo. He used to wear noise cancelling headphones during storms, to reduce anxiety. He said that being a marine engineer, if he heard all the noises, he would catastrophize about what's going on.
If it wasn't for this thread, I would have never taken any notice of any of the noises, because I have ridden some of the rattliest motors every produced, and not cared an ounce. But now I listen for every sound, and those 2 sounds have ruined my riding experience. I blame you lot .......
xtraman122
Well-known member
I exclusively ride with my AirPods in on noise canceling mode so I’m in the same position, I’d hardly ever know if there were any rattles going on.
ozzybmx
Active member
There is definitely a bit of luck involved !
My mates identical Gen 4 Bosch Oso didn't make a quarter of the noise mine did, also other mates with Bosch bikes.
My M1 Amflow is basically completely silent, if you were anal and thinking you should be on a completely quiet singlespeed there might be a tiny noise that could be brake cables or many other things but is negligible if its Avinox motor noise.
This was the video (private vid) I sent to Bosch. They said to take it to a shop for review. The shop said nothing wrong and charged me for the analysis.
Wojtek
New Member
- Mar 13, 2026
- 95
- 89
I have been using noise cancelling headphones with my TQ120 motor, works like a charm.
Mario Antony
Active member
I just brake less... and let the all bike rattle like a crazzy goose!
TheCornerJr
New Member
- Jun 2, 2026
- 1
- 2
I received my Mondraker Zendit RR last friday. Not used yet. And I found out very easily the rattling noise. Mine does even with the ebike turned off. If I push the bike backwards, the first kick that starts the transmision, causes a loud rattle noise...
Have to say I didn't test the bike on the mountain yet... but it feels a little bit dissapointed...
Yotaismygame
New Member
That's like every review about any Avinox motor. No mention. Kinda sus
