Avinox M2s rattle

[zakflip]

A rasping sound is not normal. Will Greenfield just did a noise comparison between the Bosch CX5 and the Avinox. He claims the Avinox is quieter.

So you should get it looked at. If you are inexperienced. It may not even be coming from the motor. It can be quite confusing finding noises coming from the bike.

Good advice, I service all my bikes and have done for 40+ years & worked in the cycle industry for a similar amount of time.
Checked everything, all bolts, drive chain etc.
You can hear the motor engagement has become louder when on the bike stand, so not under load.
The interesting thing is under load it is quieter, so like I said I am undecided if this is 'normal' or not.
When riding in groups, I can hear all the other motors, the M2S is noticeably quieter, i only hear it when riding solo.

 

[alexwald]

Man this is depressing to hear. I got lucky with an un-rattly m1. Hope I’m as lucky on my M2s.

is that an actual thing? non-rattly M1? I'm currently opening a warranty claim with Avinox because mine was knocky-knoch sounding from day 1

 

[alexwald]

What means "reduced"??? Less than on m1? By how much? Some m1s dont have rattle.

is this true?

 

[alexwald]

Oh give over, stop reading shit on the Internet and go try it for yourself


I can gurantee you they are pretty much the same in the real world on actual rides. Inefficient is total BS. I've done multiple rides, probably 500kms worth with folk on Gen 5 Boschs set to the same or similar power and assist levels and every ride we have all finished with battery levels within a percent or two of each other.


Totally inefficient, right?

same here, but only about 300kms

 

[alexwald]

Seriously, is that a nearly new M2S making that racket?

Man am I losing my mind or did very few reviewers mention the M1 rattle? Is it possible the bikes were so new they never rattled? Or maybe the test motors were ringers, with blueprinted gears so as not to rattle?

That the new M2s is this rattley already, is sort of blowing my mind frankly, and not in a good way.

that's M1. the top tube clearly says Druid CorE, which is the 2025 model.
you've mistook the bike with Druid E, which is the 2026 version.
still, it could have been equipped with the M2, not M2S.

 

[Highland Wheels]

that's M1. the top tube clearly says Druid CorE, which is the 2025 model.
you've mistook the bike with Druid E, which is the 2026 version.
still, it could have been equipped with the M2, not M2S.

I've got the same bike and mine makes no rattle so

 

[Mr Tonka]

Mine rattled right out of the gate. Very disappointing. As I’ve watched video of Avinox at SeaOtter explain why the M2s is virtually silent running where as M2 will
be quiet, but noisy in comparison to the M2s.

First ride any time I’m coasting over roots or bumps, small or large, the rattle is there. Pedal over the same section of trail, dead silent.

I can also hold the cranks and move the back tire to replicate the noise.

Sounds exactly like my Fazua motor which didn’t start rattling until about 1500 miles of use.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Mine rattled right out of the gate. Very disappointing. As I’ve watched video of Avinox at SeaOtter explain why the M2s is virtually silent running where as M2 will
be quiet, but noisy in comparison to the M2s.

First ride any time I’m coasting over roots or bumps, small or large, the rattle is there. Pedal over the same section of trail, dead silent.

I can also hold the cranks and move the back tire to replicate the noise.

Sounds exactly like my Fazua motor which didn’t start rattling until about 1500 miles of use.

It's a new Crestie right?
What hub?
Sorry that happened.

 

[mrtrinh]

Mine rattled right out of the gate. Very disappointing. As I’ve watched video of Avinox at SeaOtter explain why the M2s is virtually silent running where as M2 will
be quiet, but noisy in comparison to the M2s.

First ride any time I’m coasting over roots or bumps, small or large, the rattle is there. Pedal over the same section of trail, dead silent.

I can also hold the cranks and move the back tire to replicate the noise.

Sounds exactly like my Fazua motor which didn’t start rattling until about 1500 miles of use.

Did you have a bike with a m1 motor? If so, was it similar in rattle or less. My buddy's m2s rattled after the 3rd ride, not as bad as the m1 but noticeable. Im only 40miles (crestline plaid) in but so far *knock on wood* no rattle.

 

[Bike Gorilla]

Mine rattled right out of the gate. Very disappointing. As I’ve watched video of Avinox at SeaOtter explain why the M2s is virtually silent running where as M2 will
be quiet, but noisy in comparison to the M2s.

First ride any time I’m coasting over roots or bumps, small or large, the rattle is there. Pedal over the same section of trail, dead silent.

I can also hold the cranks and move the back tire to replicate the noise.

Sounds exactly like my Fazua motor which didn’t start rattling until about 1500 miles of use.

Astro66 will be furiously checking your posting history and then running it through his “Avinox fanboy legitogram” algorithm, until he gets the positive sound board answer that you are a Bosch shill and can tell you how to run your life instead of pootling around Clovelly beach on his Teewing. No opinions allowed

 

[mhueschen]

Rimpact Chain Damper - E-Bike | Rimpact

The Chain Damper is engineered to mute chain slap and reduce drivetrain feedback, delivering more grip and confidence even when descending on the roughest terrain. Enduro or DH rider? The Chain Damper is your new secret weapon. The Chain Damper effectively captures chain energy, creating a...

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imo this is the best rattle-reducer option. I have a M1 (Druid CorE) and M2S (DreadE) and the former definitely rattles from the kickback/anti-squat engaging the chainring and motor. the latter might rattle less, but I just haven't ridden it enough yet to know completely.

I'm still waiting on the Rimpact chain damper and apparently they were delayed:

Thanks for reaching out, and thank you for your patience! Regretably they were slightly delayed in manufacturing but for preorders, including yours, should be ready to ship in the first week of June, if all things go as planned. Sorry for the delay on these, I appreciate you've been waiting a while, the wait will be worth it though!

I have their TMDv2 and it's great, so I hope the damper is comparable. yes, it would be nice if the motor disengaged but this seems like the best option for the current motors.

 

[alexwald]

Rimpact Chain Damper - E-Bike | Rimpact

The Chain Damper is engineered to mute chain slap and reduce drivetrain feedback, delivering more grip and confidence even when descending on the roughest terrain. Enduro or DH rider? The Chain Damper is your new secret weapon. The Chain Damper effectively captures chain energy, creating a...

www.rimpactmtb.com

imo this is the best rattle-reducer option. I have a M1 (Druid CorE) and M2S (DreadE) and the former definitely rattles from the kickback/anti-squat engaging the chainring and motor. the latter might rattle less, but I just haven't ridden it enough yet to know completely.

I'm still waiting on the Rimpact chain damper and apparently they were delayed:



I have their TMDv2 and it's great, so I hope the damper is comparable. yes, it would be nice if the motor disengaged but this seems like the best option for the current motors.

hmm, how does this contraption work? perhaps similar / equal to what o-chain does?
do you reckon it wil work fine with the mid/high-pivot design of your druid CorE? I have the same bike with M1.

 

[sjturner2112]

hmm, how does this contraption work? perhaps similar / equal to what o-chain does?
do you reckon it wil work fine with the mid/high-pivot design of your druid CorE? I have the same bike with M1.

yes, it is very much like the ochain, but the specific engineering is little bit different, but they both work on the same principle.

 

[alexwald]

yes, it is very much like the ochain, but the specific engineering is little bit different, but they both work on the same principle.

I'm a bit sceptical in that case, as the bike already has a device (high-pivot) to mitigate chain-slap / pedal kickback in place. but do keep us posted on how it worked!
...and also ride that DreadE more and let us know how it sounds

 

[mhueschen]

I'm a bit sceptical in that case, as the bike already has a device (high-pivot) to mitigate chain-slap / pedal kickback in place. but do keep us posted on how it worked!
...and also ride that DreadE more and let us know how it sounds

yeah, I had similar feelings but wrote some stuff about it a little while ago: https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/anyone-use-anti-pedal-kickback-tech-on-emtb.40916/post-656877

my understanding is that anti-squat (and thus pedal kickback) are necessary on these bikes, and so the idler is placed to reduce, but not completely eliminate, kickback. if it were truly concentric, then the bike would squat under pedaling from the high motor torque.

so I was surprised and disappointed to feel kickback on the Druid CorE, but it seems like that is synonymous with the "rattle" that this thread is talking about - the backwards rotation of the chainring as the suspension compresses.

ime, the only solution is the chain damper, or a hub-based pedal-kickback solution (which has other problems I wrote about in that thread).

 

[mhueschen]

hmm, how does this contraption work? perhaps similar / equal to what o-chain does?
do you reckon it wil work fine with the mid/high-pivot design of your druid CorE? I have the same bike with M1.

yes, essentially the same thing, but Ochain confirmed to me here that they would not make a model for Avinox

 

[Mr Tonka]

It's a new Crestie right?
What hub?
Sorry that happened.

Yep, my new $15,000 bike sounds like a Walmart bike when descending. NOBL Erase ebike hub.

 

[Mr Tonka]

Did you have a bike with a m1 motor? If so, was it similar in rattle or less. My buddy's m2s rattled after the 3rd ride, not as bad as the m1 but noticeable. Im only 40miles (crestline plaid) in but so far *knock on wood* no rattle.

No, I have a Fazua ride 60 motor in a transition relay with an Onyx hub. Clicky motor sound with the Fazua and it took about 1500 miles to develop; but it’s not as loud as my Avinox bike. And with a silent hub on the Relay, that says a lot.

 

[Mr Tonka]

It is so loud I stopped my ride and rode cautiously back to the car to check all the linkage bolts on the bike.

Extremely disappointed.

I might put my onyx laced wheel on the Crestline and take a video to capture how loud it is.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Yep, my new $15,000 bike sounds like a Walmart bike when descending. NOBL Erase ebike hub.

I wonder how much is luck of the draw and how much is rider & terrain?
Also are you certain that there's nothing else rattling and that It's all in the motor?
I wonder if you slapped your rear wheel (to keep your hub) on a 'completely silent M1' and headed downward on your trails, would the motor suddenly rattle?
There's clearly some variance in how much rattle people are hearing with their Avinox motors. Is it luck of the draw due to manufacturing variance? Or is it by hub/ rider/ bike/ terrain related?
Both the Relay you rode before and the Crestie are pretty good pedaling bikes for what they are. So they're probably both going to have a fair bit of pedal feedback.

 

[nowayfra]

My amflow pl is besides the electronic whine quite rattle free unless i coast over some roots then from time to time I have the rattle. But riding common forest paths usually isn't enough to provoke it even with an onyx hub. So I am pretty sure that all the M1 rattle if you put them into the right terrain and ride speed. The motor layout guarantees that especially if the gears are ridden in.

 

[slickrock]

yeah, I had similar feelings but wrote some stuff about it a little while ago: https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/anyone-use-anti-pedal-kickback-tech-on-emtb.40916/post-656877

my understanding is that anti-squat (and thus pedal kickback) are necessary on these bikes, and so the idler is placed to reduce, but not completely eliminate, kickback. if it were truly concentric, then the bike would squat under pedaling from the high motor torque.

so I was surprised and disappointed to feel kickback on the Druid CorE, but it seems like that is synonymous with the "rattle" that this thread is talking about - the backwards rotation of the chainring as the suspension compresses.

ime, the only solution is the chain damper, or a hub-based pedal-kickback solution (which has other problems I wrote about in that thread).

Technically, suspension-activated pedal kickback is only a function of chain growth during activation, not anti-squat. You can achieve high anti-squat without pedal kickback with a high single concentric pivot design that locks in the instant center. But this would require either a Effigear-style gearbox (Anakin), a dual-chain drive disconnecting chain from pedal input, or unified pedal-by-wire (e.g. Rivian/ALSO TM-B). If the instant center floats around the bike to achieve anti-squat, then there will be now way of escaping pedal kickback other than losing your chain on a downhill. HP bikes with idlers achieve more anti-squat through pivot elevation than playing with instant center, which does help reduce pedal kickback compared to non-HP design. But as mentioned many times over a lot of what people experience is not pedal kickback effects as much as chain whipping effects. At least o-chain style devices help address both these issues.

 

[Suns_PSD]

My amflow pl is besides the electronic whine quite rattle free unless i coast over some roots then from time to time I have the rattle. But riding common forest paths usually isn't enough to provoke it even with an onyx hub. So I am pretty sure that all the M1 rattle if you put them into the right terrain and ride speed. The motor layout guarantees that especially if the gears are ridden in.

So this is an example of the differences that I'm talking about that are effecting perceived rattle.
My bikes have never seen a 'common forest path' in there life (no judgement from me) and even then some rattle is acknowledged under specific conditions.
So in fact this is a rattling M1 but the owner might post that it's silent. Not to mislead intentionally.

 

[Brawwp]

Just out of curiosity-

Those of you with a rattly Avinox, what motor did you come from and would you go back to that motor if you could because of the rattling, or do you still prefer the Avinox even with the rattle?

 

[slickrock]

Just out of curiosity-

Those of you with a rattly Avinox, what motor did you come from and would you go back to that motor if you could because of the rattling, or do you still prefer the Avinox even with the rattle?

I feel this question should be asked under the assumption if these occurrences are a sample defects under warranty replacement (i.e. a fraction of all M2S motors in the wild) or an actual design flow that warrants a recall. Both require good faith action from Avinox. If instead Avinox blows this off saying you still have a functional motor, then your question would be the harder question to answer.

 

[Brawwp]

I feel this question should be asked under the assumption if these occurrences are a sample defects under warranty replacement (i.e. a fraction of all M2S motors in the wild) or an actual design flow that warrants a recall. Both require good faith action from Avinox. If instead Avinox blows this off saying you still have a functional motor, then your question would be the harder question to answer.

true I guess. Some people may be more sensitive to rattles than others. It’s not a super serious question, just curious. Some people who got a rattly m1 put many miles on it like that. I guess my question is posed to those who a)have rattle and b)are riding it out like that.

My m1 doesn’t rattle at all. I’m hoping my M2s doesn’t either, but time will tell. I’m just curious if these people think the motor is good enough to deal with rattle or if it’s a deal breaker and they’d prefer whatever they had before.

*not excusing Avinox for rattles. I hope they do figure it out and help those with the new M2s that have this issue.

 

[Yotaismygame]

This thread makes not want to sell my current ebike incase I have to deal with a rattle. I’ll be pretty disappointed as I can get pretty good deals on the transition regulator cx and Santa Cruz bullit. But opted for the Avinox system

 

[alexwald]

yes, essentially the same thing, but Ochain confirmed to me here that they would not make a model for Avinox

Here's a thought experiment: if you remove the chain completely and coast over some rough terrain, and the M1 rattle is still there, Rimpact will probably not fix the root cause. is this correct?

 

[slickrock]

Here's a thought experiment: if you remove the chain completely and coast over some rough terrain, and the M1 rattle is still there, Rimpact will probably not fix the root cause. is this correct?

With no kickback and no chain whipping, there would effectively be no rattle, assuming it's final drive gear slop at issue.

 

[Mario Antony]

Any gear has backlash to work properly.

Having noise from the motor, due to backlash is unavoiable, and people should start to get used to it, unless they're willing to accept more weight for noise attenuation cases, or belt/chain driven mechaniscs, which would make motors even bigger.

Any motor, and I mean ANY by ALL, will vibrate (can be more noticeable or not) and make sounds.
Just live with it.