Avinox M2S: 1,500W, 150Nm, and a PR Offensive

[Onetime]

i dissagree, its easier to climb with a bosch motor or yamaha or Shimano, they are more reactive to torque inputs, the Avinox has a delay.

I have both the G4 Bosch CX Race and the Avinox M2s and I can say without question, the Avinox is by far a superior climber as well as pretty much everything else. I can’t think of 1 thing that the Bosch is better at. And the geo on both bikes is pretty much the same. Although the Avinox is much more powerful, it’s also much more controllable and therefore climbs steep technical terrain much easier/better. Where the Bosch is a much more aggressive on/off feeling that can be a handful on the same steep tech terrain, especially when starting and stopping.

 

[ntm95]

I have both the G4 Bosch CX Race and the Avinox M2s and I can say without question, the Avinox is by far a superior climber as well as pretty much everything else. I can’t think of 1 thing that the Bosch is better at. And the geo on both bikes is pretty much the same. Although the Avinox is much more powerful, it’s also much more controllable and therefore climbs steep technical terrain much easier/better. Where the Bosch is a much more aggressive on/off feeling that can be a handful on the same steep tech terrain, especially when starting and stopping.

Going from gen 5 bosch to the m2s, I'd say ultimate traction is better with the m2s. On wet root tech climbs it'll back the power down pretty seamlessly to moderate wheel speed.
I did like the initial feeling of the bosch more, like when you initiate a crank. That could be just from having too much power in there, easy enough to detune.
Pretty comparable overall.

 

[Brawwp]

Going from gen 5 bosch to the m2s, I'd say ultimate traction is better with the m2s. On wet root tech climbs it'll back the power down pretty seamlessly to moderate wheel speed.
I did like the initial feeling of the bosch more, like when you initiate a crank. That could be just from having too much power in there, easy enough to detune.
Pretty comparable overall.

In the M2s settings there’s an option for “quick start.” I haven’t personally tried it but that will make the motor engage faster as soon as you put pressure into the pedal.

 

[Montana St Alum]

I would be fine if Avinox could use a version of their motor that is significantly lighter, but it's already pretty light. At less than 6 pounds, I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to cut the weight in half by cutting the power in half, but if they could, sign me up! Between reducing motor weight and reducing battery weight, I'd be pretty stoked if they could drop significant weight off the system.
I'm 74 and my wife is 73. We regularly ride in Utah, above 7000 feet, and because we like to "stop and smell the roses" I have my Fazua set at 120w output with 120W of input and a 430wh battery. My wife never exceeds 50NM on her Giant Trance X setting and often is at 40NM. We both can get to 10,000 feet and get in 20 miles without any problems.
Neither of us has 21-mile butts, but I'll go farther with our son.
One thing I do think is nice about high power motors is that the power is there if you need it. The Wasatch runs north/south and mountain thunderstorms can cook up in a hurry without notice, as they come from the west and we ride on the east of the knife-like ridge. Also, if a motor is designed for high power and you only use a fraction, I'd guess that's very good for motor wear and reliability. The pace of improvement is very impressive!

 

[ntm95]

In the M2s settings there’s an option for “quick start.” I haven’t personally tried it but that will make the motor engage faster as soon as you put pressure into the pedal.

I want less. It seems too eager in some situations.
Just haven't played with the start settings yet.

 

[Astro66]

i dissagree, its easier to climb with a bosch motor or yamaha or Shimano, they are more reactive to torque inputs, the Avinox has a delay.

Yes mate. You would.

The fact you have thrown Shimano in there, shows that you really have no clue. I had a 2025 Merida E160 with the Shimano EP801, with the race firmware, at the same time as having the Amflow PL Carbon Pro. I did a straight up stair climb of 12 very steep steps. Twice I stalled on the Shimano. The Amflow breezed through everytime.

Same on a dedicated technical climbing track in the National Park called "Signal House". I had to take the "B" line with the Shimano, because I regularly stalled and fell once on the "A" line. With the Amflow, I whip up the "A" line everytime.

It's not even remotely close. So I got rid of the Merida\ Shimano and just recently took delivery of another Avinox EMTB.

I'm in a MTB club of over 900 members as an event coordinator. I host MTB rides. I get a full spectrum of EMTB brands and models on my rides in the National Park. And when I rode the Shimano, I would have been mid pack in climbing ability. After getting the Amflow, and learning how to use all the motor features, I am recognised as one of the best climbers. And I'm just not that good.

The motor and bike makes a massive difference, and this directly lead to me being promoted to an event coordinator in my MTB club. Everyone wants to learn how to climb like that Amflow Golden Boy bloke ......... Little do they know ..... It's mostly the bike ......

 

[Montana St Alum]

I want less. It seems too eager in some situations.
Just haven't played with the start settings yet.

For our purposes, I agree. Both my wife and I have the onset rate (launch) dialed down to the minimum, which makes it feel much more like a mountain bike.
It's personal preference, of course. In my youth, I was an enthusiastic "dirt biker" (as in non-competitive trail motorcycling) when I lived in Montana, so I'm certainly not opposed to high power onset, but I just don't like or need it on a bicycle. If that means I can't make it up a feature, so be it.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Yes. I'm 60 yo and 3 months ago a heart condition nearly killed me. I came within minutes of not being here anymore. So if I can gain an edge and ride with better riders because of a new technology in EMTB motors, I'm going to use it and not die.

I'm riding the mountain bike trails in Australia for pure enjoyment. And the more talented riders I can ride with, the more I enjoy. And whether Drugs, Surgery, or a 1300 peak watts motor is allowing me to keep pace with these riders. I will take it and I am not worried that anyone sees these aids as a crutch. Or that the drugs, surgeons and Avinox motor, and not my skill, is why I can ride with them. I'm just having a butt load of fun and the drugs, surgeons and Avinox motor are keeping me alive.

That said. Riding with better, more capable riders, will improve your skill faster than anything I know.

But you are a better climber on a EMTB. Even better on an Avinox Motored one. The thread is about the Pro's and Con's of the new Avinox System. A massive pro, is you are a better climber. Thus you can access terrain that was previously unscalable. Now with this motor it is, and you don't have to be 20yo and in the prime of your life to do so.

Very well said! We all have the right to make our decisions based upon our goals and principles. If someone else doesn't like it they should mind their own freaking business.

Why do knuckle morphheads feel intent on inflicting their will and opinions on others?

 

[Straker]

2 sec ask of Claude. Hey, AI can be wrong. So can humans though, I guess

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Regulatory compliance / staying street-legal The primary driver was keeping e-bikes classified as bicycles rather than mopeds or motorcycles. In the US, the 750W limit is baked into federal law (the Consumer Product Safety Act's definition of a "low-speed electric bicycle"), and in the EU it's 250W continuous. Exceeding those thresholds means the vehicle legally requires registration, insurance, a license plate, and a driver's license — killing the core appeal of an e-bike.

Liability and safety Manufacturers didn't want to be seen producing vehicles that were de facto motorcycles but sold without the safety infrastructure (helmets mandated, licensing, road rules) that comes with them. A heavier, faster machine on bike paths creates serious liability exposure if someone gets hurt.

Trail and path access A big part of the e-bike market is off-road / MTB use. Land managers (national parks, trail networks) were already nervous about e-bikes on non-motorized trails. Manufacturers knew that if their bikes were obviously over-powered, they'd lose trail access entirely — so staying within the agreed power band was self-preservation.

Market legitimacy The industry was working hard in the mid-2010s to get e-bikes accepted by cycling culture, retailers, and regulators. A race to higher wattage would have muddied the "it's still a bicycle" narrative they were carefully cultivating.

In practice, the 750W figure is somewhat arbitrary anyway — torque and peak power matter more than nominal wattage ratings, and many motors technically exceed 750W in short bursts. The agreement was as much about the label and staying under regulatory radar as it was about hard engineering limits.

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I read that as "they were being sensible". It might pan out they were being "overly cautious". We have yet to see.

I take the angle of "Since the battery capacity can't really support it anyway, why risk the regulatory scrutiny and war over trail access?".

Hi unfortunately your preposition is wrong, additionally I wasn’t considering the US region.