Levo SL Gen 1 anyone running 29 front 27.5 rear on 2019 levo

[Matt71]

better or worse than standard ?
did you bother to flip the chip ?
does it alter the speed limit as mine has new firmware and cant be adjusted even with blevo

 

[Fivetones]

Interesting question. As it happens I just read this PB article:

Video: Are 29/27.5

 

[Moochier]

Yeah, that is an interesting read... I’m considering going 27.5 in the rear, 170mm up front and possibly flipping the chip to raise the bb again. I just need to buy a boost adaptor for my non boost carbon 27.5” wheels.

 

[levity]

Mrs levity and I run mixed 29F/27.5R wheels on our Levos. We wanted 3.0 rear tires for extra cushion and traction and because we ride is sandy conditions in the desert in winter and a 29x3 won’t fit in back.

Here’s a pic of my ‘19 with a 29x3 Bontrager XR4 in front and a 27.5x3 Purgatory in back. I left the fork at 150mm and set the flip chip in the high position to keep the bottom bracket up and not make the front end too slack. Very happy with the handling.

 

[Max-E]

Bumping this up - hate 29s so would have to go 27.5 on a Levo, also dislike Plus or anything over 2.5 which leaves me on 2.4/2.5 tyres on a 27.5 rim.

= BB drop circa 18/19/20mm.

I believe the flip chip might get me 5mm back but it's still a fair old drop.

Anyone been there?

 

[Mattwilko92]

Bumping this up - hate 29s so would have to go 27.5 on a Levo, also dislike Plus or anything over 2.5 which leaves me on 2.4/2.5 tyres on a 27.5 rim.

= BB drop circa 18/19/20mm.

I believe the flip chip might get me 5mm back but it's still a fair old drop.

Anyone been there?

Im running 27.5 in 2.6 with the flip chip in high and it is a fair old drop. Just have to be more carful with your lines on root sections in particular. I’d say its worth it as the bike feels more nimble/playful.

 

[Mcharza]

It seems that your trails have no rock gardens

 

[Mattwilko92]

It seems that your trails have no rock gardens

Mine do. A lot actually. I have had a few strikes i wont lie but it is avoidable with practice.

 

[Mcharza]

Mine do. A lot actually. I have had a few strikes i wont lie but it is avoidable with practice.

Sorry, this question was for Max-E

 

[Max-E]

Well, to be honest I have not been on a FS for 18 years and that was a Gary Fisher trade day for the new Sugars with about 75mm! Fully rigid until about 14 years ago. SS at that for the last 17 and even used to ride the odd bit of fixed off-road. 80's BMXer, always ridden 26" since. Always run 172.5mm cranks and I don't ever recall a pedal strike (even fixed offroad) so the whole talk of them seems alien (especially with what seems insanely short 165mm arms) but it does seem to get mentioned on here a lot so guessing these modern fangled electrickery 150mm travel bikes are a bit prone.

I'm not as young as I once was obviously but old school riding habits of line choice and pedal positioning never leave you - 'pick and choose rather than plough and cruise'.

I like to think I can still get round pretty quick on a good day but age catches up and the old back doesn;t like even small drop offs any more and the rest of me doesn't like hills much either. Hence in the market for a bike that is effectively polar opposites from what I've ridden for ever - a FS E-MTB.

Anyway, back to the wheels - all the above kind of points to why I like nimble, quick handling and wagon wheels are not much fun IME although I appreciate how they roll and roll.

Also did not really want to go wider than 2.4/2.5 which again does not help when trying to replace 29er 2.6 tyre wheels with 27.5 (non plus). I could go 79er and flip the chip which would make the BB drop far less but then the angles get even more slack and I'm back to a wagon wheel on the front...waffle...waffle...

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

i tried to buy a single 29 wheel from enve and they told me to fuck off. so i have to buy a full wheelset.

We could swap a wheel each

 

[Max-E]

Anyone (who's bored or can be bothered ) that has a regular 150mm travel 2019 Levo and a spare pair of 27.5 wheels with regular tyres (say 2.4 to 2.6) NOT PLUS could you possibly be ultra kind and measure your BB height centre to floor with the 29er wheels and then with the 27.5s popped in. And with the 29 front/27.5 rear too! I know it will differ here and there with tyre profiles etc but a ballpark difference would be really helpful.

I'd be eternally grateful.

 

[seamarsh]

This trend comes and goes.. people also used to run 27.5 front and a 26 in back! specialized had the Big Hit that was 26f and 24r..

Unless the bike is designed around this concept you are wasting your time running a 27.5+ on rear. The gains are going to be negligible at the expense of changing geo that was tuned by engineers. You can be sure that someone at specialized tried this set up and decided against it for whatever reason.

That being said it fun to experiment and no harm in it, but I dont think it makes much differnce, esp with 2.5 29 tires that are now available.

Also I dont trust "seat of pants" review from someone online vs engineers of the bike.. at least thats how I see it. But I feel the same when people try and long shock their bikes..! and plenty have done that and what do I know.

last be not least.. I have a hightower that I have 2 wheel sets for, 29er and 27.5+ and I switch back and forth on often. The differences in these set ups comes down to tires more than wheels imho, just dont feel that plus to 29er is radically different as far as "nimbleness" is concerned. 29ers work better when at speed, carving berms and in wet, plus better for extra dry and more primitive trails.. again a lot of that is down to tire profile and casing etc.

 

[Max-E]

Anyone (who's bored or can be bothered ) that has a regular 150mm travel 2019 Levo and a spare pair of 27.5 wheels with regular tyres (say 2.4 to 2.6) NOT PLUS could you possibly be ultra kind and measure your BB height centre to floor with the 29er wheels and then with the 27.5s popped in. And with the 29 front/27.5 rear too! I know it will differ here and there with tyre profiles etc but a ballpark difference would be really helpful.

I'd be eternally grateful.

Just bumping the above in case anyone has a tape measure and some minutes spare this weekend!

 

[ccrdave]

yes dropped my BB by 20mm with a minion dhr2 2,35 on the back (29 x 2.6 MM on the front)
tried it didnt like it
In my opinion a properly designed 29er can be just as manoeuvrable as a 27.5 with plus tyres, the plus tyres dont make much difference in diameter say 27.5 x 2.8 v 29 x 2.4 . but you need to bear in mind I am not very skilled and I am a bit of a point and plough rider!!

 

[Max-E]

Ahhh, I'm old school 'pick and choose' (26") hardtail/fully rigid rather than plough and cruise!

Definitely don't want Plus tyres - I'm the ex-BMX Gary type - any 2.4 suits me with narrower rear, wider front but might have to go 2.5/2.6 I think.

Whatever though - tried wagon wheels once and not for me TBH. As I say ridden 26" for too long now...

Not sure on your set up? - But you mention a 2.35 on back (on a 27.5" rim?) and a 2.6 (Magic Mary 29"?) on front - that's a big front tyre so would have thought BB drop would be less as just changing the rear is something like:

1/2 the difference in wheel diameter X (wheelbase/chainstay ratio).

29er - 650b diameter = 38mm/2 = 19mm

But chainstay is less than half the wheelbase so BB drop should be more like 10mm.

You can use the flip chip to get 5mm back. So all in all should be minimal.

So much for all the maths bollox though?!?!

That's my thinking just need someone to swap their rear 29 x 2.6 for a 27.5 x 2.6 (not plus) and then swap the front too so BB height can be checked for all three (ie 29/29, 27/29, 27/27 with tyres roughly equal) ...

 

[ccrdave]

27.5 x 2.35 is all I had at the time, I now have a 27.5 x 2.6 MM on so I will fit it over the weekend and measure again, I also have 160mm forks not 150mm flip chip stayed in the low position.
I was saying plus cos most ebikes tend to run plus size tyres, to me anything bigger than 2.4/2.5 I call plus

 

[Max-E]

I was saying plus cos most ebikes tend to run plus size tyres, to me anything bigger than 2.4/2.5 I call plus

[apologies in advance for anyone I've sent to sleep with this! I'll post it all up anyway as it will be useful info to have in this topic for any nutters like me interested in all this stuff! ]

Plus is 2.8/3.0 or so and quite specific as a sub-size as not just the width changes but crucially the height (aspect ratio) is greater for more volume so a true Plus is pretty much the same diameter as a 29er. A current in-vogue 2.6 (some are calling it Plus-light ?!!) will be around 19mm smaller in height (38mm diameter) than the same tyre on a 29er rim.

All this is very dependant on variances in tyres/rims though.

But....not sure why I did not try this before...but my daughter has a 27.5 bike and I just used that to measure and it works out as it should really.

Raising the front tyre only by 19mm makes the BB difference 9mm and the head angle 1 degree slacker (as to be expected - every 10mm fork difference unsagged = 0.5 deg change).

But this bike is 100mm shorter wheelbase than the long Levo (long to me as I'm used to 16.5" chainstays! ) so the difference would be slightly less.

Flip the chip to get back 5mm and 1/2 degree and then to sum up:

Swapping like for like tyres (regular 2.4 to 2.6) on a 2019 Levo then a 29er front, 27.5 rear set up will be less than 1/2 degree slacker and less than 5mm BB difference in high chip position. However, going narrow rear (2.4), wider front (2.6) would make this difference a little more.

 

[Max-E]

i tried the front 29er and it was not of my liking. did a few laps and just couldnt get used to it.

im spoiled by the 6 fattie. with the 6fattie you can just barrel through the roots/rocks with no regards.. the 29'er is unforgiving so you have to choose lines carefully and id venture to say its a bit more tedious.

Totally get that - we are all different in style/preference/whatever but one thing is for sure - there has never been a better time to be a MTBer - there is a wheel and tyre and bike type for every single one of us to get just what they need.

I remember a test ride I did on the South Downs on a Trek/Bosch E-MTB on Plus tyres - I've never experienced anything like the grip it had - you could lay it over on Boost at crazy angles like Valentino Rossi.

 

[R120]

May seem like a silly question, but why are you getting a 29'r Levo given the kind of feel you are saying you want out of a bike?

If you are looking to throw around a bike and more untested in fun than outright technical speed, the a 27.5 running a "normal" tire size of 2.3-2.5 and with pretty low geometry is going to be the direction to go in.

 

[Max-E]

No, fair question - but no other E-MTB at present does it for me TBH.

Until they start making 26" E-MTBs that is - but we'll have to wait a few years for that idea to go full circle.

With a small frame and the set up I plan then I'm hoping it will work (as in my posts with stats a 79er is not that much different in geo anyway and I may still be converted to wagons or semi-wagons... ). However, I won't be buying one until I have it for a 48 hr test and can properly see - this is proving difficult at present as all Specz test fleet is booked up until July...cannot fault my LBS for trying though and still working on it.

 

[R120]

The Norco Sight VLT may be worth a look, provided you can charge the bikes where you plan to keep it.

 

[ccrdave]

ok bit more of an accurate test
29er both ends fitted with 2.6 MM's, chip in low position, BB height is 34.25cm
29er on the front 27.5 rear fitted with 2.6 MM, chip in low position, BB height is 33.5cm
so a drop of only 0.75cm and I could get about 0.5cm back by putting the chip in the high position

 

[Max-E]

Great stuff Dave, thanks for doing that - that's interesting and a result - Specz give the 2019 with the factory 2.6's as 5mm higher (347mm) and would have thought the Butchers might be less tall than the MM?

But your test with the 27.5 on the back checks out pretty close with the post I made earlier on a 27.5mm shorter bike:

Raising the front.......by 19mm makes the BB difference 9mm....

But this bike is 100mm shorter wheelbase than the long Levo...so the difference would be slightly less.

Flip the chip to get back 5mm and 1/2 degree and then to sum up:

Swapping like for like tyres (regular 2.4 to 2.6) on a 2019 Levo then a 29er front, 27.5 rear set up will be less than 1/2 degree slacker and less than 5mm BB difference in high chip position. However, going narrow rear (2.4), wider front (2.6) would make this difference a little more

So, if you flip the chip now you should be virtually the same with only a couple of mm difference - great news.

I was watching Neil's video on GMBN yesterday with the 27.5 vs 29er test and he did mention that running a 2.4 on the 29er wheel against a 2.6 on the 27.5 wheel made a 20mm diameter difference so 10mm off the BB height. But he's swapping both ends.

Summing up again (!) if for whatever reason one wanted to try a 79er set up (I do ) then it's no big deal in terms of BB height change - stick a 2.4 on the 29er up front, a 2.6 on the 27.5 out back, flip the chip and you're only going to lose maybe 5mm and 1/2 deg on the angles.

Even running 27.5 both ends on 2.6s would be fine too.

 

[seamarsh]

Great stuff Dave, thanks for doing that - that's interesting and a result - Specz give the 2019 with the factory 2.6's as 5mm higher (347mm) and would have thought the Butchers might be less tall than the MM?

But your test with the 27.5 on the back checks out pretty close with the post I made earlier on a 27.5mm shorter bike:

Raising the front.......by 19mm makes the BB difference 9mm....

But this bike is 100mm shorter wheelbase than the long Levo...so the difference would be slightly less.

Flip the chip to get back 5mm and 1/2 degree and then to sum up:

Swapping like for like tyres (regular 2.4 to 2.6) on a 2019 Levo then a 29er front, 27.5 rear set up will be less than 1/2 degree slacker and less than 5mm BB difference in high chip position. However, going narrow rear (2.4), wider front (2.6) would make this difference a little more

So, if you flip the chip now you should be virtually the same with only a couple of mm difference - great news.

I was watching Neil's video on GMBN yesterday with the 27.5 vs 29er test and he did mention that running a 2.4 on the 29er wheel against a 2.6 on the 27.5 wheel made a 20mm diameter difference so 10mm off the BB height. But he's swapping both ends.

Summing up again (!) if for whatever reason one wanted to try a 79er set up (I do ) then it's no big deal in terms of BB height change - stick a 2.4 on the 29er up front, a 2.6 on the 27.5 out back, flip the chip and you're only going to lose maybe 5mm and 1/2 deg on the angles.

Even running 27.5 both ends on 2.6s would be fine too.

Plan: buy a fully sorted Levo just this year optimized for 29er wheels and turn into a frankenbike via the power of maths and a spreadsheet... gonna go bang my head against the wall

 

[Max-E]

Plan: buy a fully sorted Levo just this year optimized for 29er wheels and turn into a frankenbike via the power of maths and a spreadsheet... gonna go bang my head against the wall

Come on, hardly a 'frankenbike' by any stretch of the imagination is it? Really?!

Bikes are very adaptable and not everyone wants the same or maybe some want to try something (ever so slightly) different. Discussing it on here is to see if it would be viable. Riding it will tell the truth. But a few mm's here or 1/2 degree there on any dimension really will not upset the boys round the geometry table at Morgan Hills (or Cham or wherever) I'm sure...

 

[R120]

I think the point is there are plenty of bikes out there that do what you want out the box, or you can take an expensive gamble.

 

[seamarsh]

Come on, hardly a 'frankenbike' by any stretch of the imagination is it? Really?!

Bikes are very adaptable and not everyone wants the same or maybe some want to try something (ever so slightly) different. Discussing it on here is to see if it would be viable. Riding it will tell the truth. But a few mm's here or 1/2 degree there on any dimension really will not upset the boys round the geometry table at Morgan Hills (or Cham or wherever) I'm sure...

Yeah I’m just being salty you can do what you want of course. Just think the people I read about in forums are always re-engineering bikes to make them “better” long shock, long fork, different wheel sizes. You can tweak some things. Crank length, pedals grips etc. but really there’s so much that goes into designing these high end bikes.. geo and how it relates to suspension kinematics etc. that I don’t think you are going to improve on it.

What you end up with is a weird frankenbike that you might tell yourself rides great but in the end will have very minimal, if any real world gain for mostly negative repercussions. To top it off you won’t be able to tell what these repercussions are because you will be in uncharted territory.

Saying you don’t like 29er wheels is not an argument as they act completely differently depending on how the bikes was designed around them.

Early 29ers? Yes clumsy.. modern 29ers with sorted geo.. awesome!


Now if you are talking YT decoy that was purpose built around a different wheel size in back... totally different story and probably works as intended.


I’m just keeping it salty!

 

[ccrdave]

well I have done some more riding on my "mullet bike" (why do they call it that?) and I think i like it, I was definitely in the designers know best camp but I thought I would try as I dont like talking about things I have no experience of.
so some of the off piste trails around here are quite tight and twisty, it handles much better on these, changing direction is faster and I like the way you feel sat in the bike rather than on it.
pedal strikes are a bit more evident especially when you have to pedal on techy uphill stuff but I still have the flipchip in low setting. and descending is more confident.
on the the smooth flowy stuff the 29ers at each end are definitely better and faster and the bike feels faster overall with 29 at each end.
I guess each setup has its place and of course rider skill (i dont have any) will make the biggest difference irrespective of wheel sizes !
but its fun to try

 

[Max-E]

...but its fun to try

Says it all.

EMBN popped up a video on this subject yesterday - first time I think I've ever agreed with anything Jonesy has opinionated said.