Amflow PL Carbon owners, check your seat tube for cracks!

[Astro66]

So far I have not encountered any problems with PX, only PL.

Did you also buy a PX ?

Is your PL fixed ?

 

[parkershark]

Was it an authorized dealer? That’s the key here. Amflow isn’t helping people who purchase off alibaba stores.

Seller not responding to your messages tells me probably not authorized.

Yep, I noticed the OP said, "I've bought mine in Hong Kong. So it's the Chinese version. The seller just doesn't respond to my messages."


It sounds like someone imported a genuine AMflow that was intended for the Chinese/Hong Kong market and resold it internationally. The bike itself is probably authentic, but it wasn't sold through the authorized dealer network in your country. A lot of manufacturers won't honor warranty claims or provide support outside the original sales region. He probably saved some money upfront, but now he's finding out what the tradeoff is. That's one of the biggest reasons I don't buy expensive, hard-use equipment from unauthorized sellers or in gray markets.

 

[insplean]

Did you also buy a PX ?

Is your PL fixed ?

No, I have a PL. I just haven't seen this issue mentioned with the PX. But they have a completely different matrix.

I just got the crack on PL at the end of last week and am now waiting for a response from the dealer.

 

[insplean]

That's one of the biggest reasons I don't buy expensive, hard-use equipment from unauthorized sellers or in gray markets.

The world is much larger than the Amflow network of dealerships. Why can't you accept this?

Also, why aren't you considering the service option in China with the author of this post? Since he received his bike from China, he could also send it back to China and get a replacement there. As I understand it, the problem isn't with the author's location, but with the manufacturer's policies and the seller's behavior.

I don't have that problem, but I can understand that person.

Also, for some reason, many focused their conversations on the author, although the problem of cracks is much more pressing due to its widespread nature.

 

[TheKaiser]

I'm not sure. But the crack starts where there shouldn't be a stress point—mine is located below the crack. But if the crack has appeared and is bulging under load, and the dropper post is relatively rigid, then there's clearly a problem with the seat tube itself.

Yeah, I agree that there is clearly a problem with the seat tube itself, not dropper insertion. I would have figured that the dropper would have sort of reinforced and load shared the area enough to prevent the tube splitting, but it occurred to me that it might actually be shock and link loads that are causing the split to open when you press on the seat. The link pivot is pushing backwards, while the shock mount is pressing forwards, so its trying to splay the top and seat tube junction apart. Typically, the top tube/seat tube junction itself will have a lot of reinforcing layers, and the link mount have a lot of reinforcing layers, but that short stretch of seat tube with the crack is in a sort of no man's land between the 2. You can see in the pics of the frame with no paint how there is a line above and below the area with the crack that clearly have more plies, which terminate leaving the crack area without extra reinforcement.

Not that it really matters from a "getting your bike fixed" standpoint, but if you really wanted to tease out the load that is actually causing the crack you could compress the suspension a similar amount to your "weight on the seat" demonstration, but do it by applying a load through the pedals at the bottom bracket, making sure you compress the shock a similar amount to your "weight on the seat" test, to ensure the splaying forces are similar. It might be best achieved with a heavyset buddy standing on the pedals while you watch the seat tube. Have the buddy stand as upright as possible to concentrate weight on the BB not the handlebars, or even add some weight to a backpack on the buddy if needed.

Another way of achieving the same sort of force isolation test, but from the opposite direction, is to support the bike from the BB shell with some sort of blocking, such that there is no weight on the wheel, and have a buddy hold the handlebars and front wheel down. Then apply weight through the seat as you did in your first test, and see if the crack still opens. This should be a pretty pure test of seat post forces, without the splaying forces that come with loading of the rear suspension linkage. In this scenario, rather than a splaying force, the top/seat tube junction will actually be trying to close the angle between the 2 tubes.

Just pushing on the seat, as you did in your original test, while effective for showing the dynamic nature of the crack, combines the splaying and closing forces coming from the suspension linkage and seat, so there is no way to determine which is the culprit.

 

[Fingy]

Just heard back from the bike shop, they have warrantied a few now all silver all in large. They all had cracks in the paint
but the carbon was okay but Amflow replaced them anyhow, usually takes 2 to 3 weeks to receive a new frame.
Just need to bring my bike in so they can start the warranty process, so all sounds pretty painless and straightforward what
I would've expected had I bought a bike from a legacy brand. Hopefully I can bring it home and keep riding while the new frame
is in transit.

 

[Astro66]

although the problem of cracks is much more pressing due to its widespread nature.

You saying it's widespread, doesn't make it widespread. What part of "a small batch" do you not understand ? It also appears to be a localised flaw in the manufacturing process, rather than a design flaw.

The world is much larger than the Amflow network of dealerships. Why can't you accept this?

Not sure what you expect Amflow to do. If they don't have a dealership in the country where the bike was bought from. How do they service this person? Are you expecting Amflow to go out and create an entire relationship with a bike shop in a foreign country, just to service this one person ?

Set up accounts. Check on import issues. Trade relationships and restrictions. etc. etc. There is a reason companies put the "No international sales have warranty" into their business. You don't just click your heals three times and the bike gets fixed. And if they accept it as warranty. It needs to be done properly.

And if there is a dealer network in the country, and a person bought the bike internationally from an unauthorised seller like Alibaba. Are you expecting Amflow to screw over their dealers, and force them to service this guy anyway ? The dealer network is far more important than one person who knowingly bought the bike without Amflow warranty.

I just got the crack on PL at the end of last week and am now waiting for a response from the dealer.

Anyway. I'm assuming yours is an Amflow authorised dealer. So please do keep us informed that they do take care of you. As the post above shows. Amflow are repairing properly bought PL's.

 

[RickBullotta]

The world is much larger than the Amflow network of dealerships. Why can't you accept this?

Also, why aren't you considering the service option in China with the author of this post? Since he received his bike from China, he could also send it back to China and get a replacement there. As I understand it, the problem isn't with the author's location, but with the manufacturer's policies and the seller's behavior.

I don't have that problem, but I can understand that person.

Also, for some reason, many focused their conversations on the author, although the problem of cracks is much more pressing due to its widespread nature.

You’re kidding, right? “Send it back to China”.

 

[Kr1s]

Let's view this issue rationally

1. Who is responsible for the cracks on the frame?
----There have been many similar cases. I believe the responsibility lies with Amflow rather than us for creating the problem.

2. Should amflow (a non-Chinese customer service) be covered by the warranty?
---- It is clearly stated in the policy, it shouldn't be done that way, but I do sincerely hope they will do it this way.

3. Should amflow (the Chinese customer service) provide warranty?
----They are responsible for this, because it was legal to purchase here and then transport it to other countries. The transaction between the Hong Kong distributor and Amflow has already been completed.The warranty should take effect.


So I think the process to solve the problem should be to send the previous triangular part back to the Hong Kong dealer, then wait for the new frame from Amflow, and then have the Hong Kong dealer send it to you. Of course, you have to pay for the postage. This is not a small amount.

 

[Brawwp]

Let's view this issue rationally

1. Who is responsible for the cracks on the frame?
----There have been many similar cases. I believe the responsibility lies with Amflow rather than us for creating the problem.

2. Should amflow (a non-Chinese customer service) be covered by the warranty?
---- It is clearly stated in the policy, it shouldn't be done that way, but I do sincerely hope they will do it this way.

3. Should amflow (the Chinese customer service) provide warranty?
----They are responsible for this, because it was legal to purchase here and then transport it to other countries. The transaction between the Hong Kong distributor and Amflow has already been completed.The warranty should take effect.


So I think the process to solve the problem should be to send the previous triangular part back to the Hong Kong dealer, then wait for the new frame from Amflow, and then have the Hong Kong dealer send it to you. Of course, you have to pay for the postage. This is not a small amount.

The Hong Kong dealer isn’t responding to the guy. You guys are acting like alibaba is some legit website. It’s where you go to get dupe Luis Vuitton bags and Taylormade golf clubs for $10. Not where you go to buy $10k e-bikes for $6k and expecting a warranty to go smoothly.