Amflow PL 800 angleset install

[Ridgydidge]

This is a note to report my angleset install on the Amflow. It is possible!

Two reasons - First I prefer around 66 degrees HA as I don't ride burly steeps, rather, less steeply inclined blues with the odd black feature. (Not all of us live in Whistler - I consider most bikes are too slack these days.) Anyway, not a mainstream view probs! Second, when I investigated the prospects for an angleset - taking the Amflow's headset apart - I was pretty aghast. I mean, what a crappy design. First, there is the giving up of 15mm of head tube rigidity to install that funky knock block ring, which is then never even used. Talk about unresolved. Then, the upper bearing uses a 52mm bearing with a flimsy sliver of an alu spacer to 'support' the top of the fork stem. No wonder it flexes in this area. Its a joke. As much as I admire the Chinese, this innovation bravery just ended up a dog's breakfast.

And as a further insult of all this, no existing angleset could be made to fit. However, with some thought I have been able to adapt 9point8's 'Slack-R' IS angleset (specifically, the ‘November’ headset). These are a truly great design, and I have run them on my Tallboy (for a steeper head angle) and my wife's Epic (for a slacker head angle) to great effect.

To do that, for the Amflow, I had to make a couple of custom adapters for the top and bottom, so as to overcome the Amflow's unique design language. My men's shed has an excellent lathe, so armed with a nice chunk of 6061 ally, I set to work.

For the bottom, I removed the knock block ring and crafted a 5mm spacer to sit on top of the existing 10mm of the angleset's intrusion into the frame, making up the total 15mm to the bearing seat inside the Amflow's head stem.

For the top, I machined a 52mm insert, fashioned to take the Slack-R's upper cup assembly. Into that I popped a standard 41mm bearing off an old Cane Creek 40 headset I had laying around.

I also had to take a smidge off the diameter of the Slack-R's bottom tube assembly, to allow it to fit inside the head tube of the Amflow. The resulting assembly can be seen in the following photo.

It all fits great, and I am super happy with the results. Here is the final install.

There are multiple benefits:
. First, I get a head angle of an estimated 65.8 degrees - pretty close to my preferred 66 degrees (= 64.5 + November 1.6 Slack-R - ~0.3 degree lost due to the higher stack that comes from the angleset)
. Second, I get an approximately 1cm higher stack - helping to reduce a common criticism of the Amflow geo (although I get a slightly slacker seat angle - had to adjust my seat forward and the angle down a smidge)
. Third, perhaps most importantly, I get a rock solid connection between the frame and fork. The Slack-R gets tightened up to 40Nm with a special supplied tool to hold everything together inside the head tube. This solidity is helped by the fact that the bearings are now 15cm apart on the fork stem, rather than the previous 11cm - giving so much more leverage on the fork. And I've replaced that flimsy alu top ring with a solid chunk of close fitting alu.

Overall, it is an amazing result. Its hard to describe, but the bike now feels almost burly. It cuts in like a scalpel, allowing incredibly precise line choice. All up, I think it overcomes one of the major problems with the Amflow frame. Ride on!

 

[Fangs2k]

Awesome work Sir!

 

[Rockhopper70]

Good work, but it begs the question why you bought the bike if the geometry was wrong for you. You have just voided any frame warranty too, adding that extra stress in the head tube.

Crazy buying logic.

 

[luna87824]

Good work, but it begs the question why you bought the bike if the geometry was wrong for you. You have just voided any frame warranty too, adding that extra stress in the head tube.

Crazy buying logic.

Where could he find a bike with a 66 degree head angle with a DJI motor?

 

[Rockhopper70]

Where could he find a bike with a 66 degree head angle with a DJI motor?

I don’t know, but I’m staggered how many Amflow owners seem to have bought them JUST FOR THE POWER. Bike geo would be my first priority, not motor,

 

[luna87824]

I don’t know, but I’m staggered how many Amflow owners seem to have bought them JUST FOR THE POWER. Bike geo would be my first priority, not motor,

The only reason to buy the Amflow is for the motor, battery and price!

 

[Astro66]

Love all the non-Amflow owners, telling us Amflow owners why we bought an Amflow.

I hate to break it to you. But the frame and suspension gives a really plush ride. The lightness has me being able to learn tricks I cannot do on my plus 25kgs Merida. And with the Amflow, I have a full power EMTB that I can lift into my car, over fences, carry up a slope, without staining or injuring myself. It integrates the SRAM wireless shifting beautifully with coast shifting and power reduction when changing gears to protect the chain, and give more cassette life.

I have tuned the suspension for me and love it. I can confidently leap off drops far higher than when on my Merida. Both these bikes have the same suspension travel. But everything just feels so much smoother on the Amflow.

Not saying the Amflow is for everyone. But it's more than a motor and battery. I have the Pro Model, and with very simple and cost effective modifications to tyres and wheels. It becomes even more effective downhill. I rarely run with factory tyres. And I always mullet my EMTBs, unless they come mulleted.

That said. I would definitely not steepen the head angle. Infact I'm thinking of putting the flip chip back to 29, to give a sub 64 degree head angle with my 27.5 rear wheel. I love the ability to drop off obstacles when descending, without fear of going OTHB. My only hesitation is the reduced BB height. I love the clearance in really technical terrain.

But if someone prefers a steeper head angle. Well that's their preferred configuration. Everyone has their own setup. That's why they make frames and suspension adjustable.

And as far as voiding warranty. I setup my EMTB to give the absolute best ride. If that voids warranty. Then so be it. I'd prefer to have the best riding EMTB, than a compromised setup, that means I might save money in the future. No EMTB will be perfect out of the box, so set it up for you, and just be the best you can be.

If you ride worrying about cost. You aren't maximising the experience.

 

[sethimus]

Good work, but it begs the question why you bought the bike if the geometry was wrong for you. You have just voided any frame warranty too, adding that extra stress in the head tube.

Crazy buying logic.

less angle, less stress. it’s just like reducing front travel. would that „void“ the warranty too?

 

[irie]

I don’t know, but I’m staggered how many Amflow owners seem to have bought them JUST FOR THE POWER. Bike geo would be my first priority, not motor,

Why else would anyone buy one ?

 

[GodsTherapist]

less angle, less stress

But he increased the angle

 

[Rockhopper70]

less angle, less stress. it’s just like reducing front travel. would that „void“ the warranty too?

but he actually slackened the head angle, so the front wheel is now effectively further out forward than stock. The effect of that is greater force trying to rip the lower headset cup forwards out of the head tube on impact. Imagine sitting on a stool with vertical legs, that would be solid. Now set the legs splayed out. There is a greater chance of the chair collapsed and the legs splaying out,

 

[crisillo]

but he actually slackened the head angle, so the front wheel is now effectively further out forward than stock. The effect of that is greater force trying to rip the lower headset cup forwards out of the head tube on impact. Imagine sitting on a stool with vertical legs, that would be solid. Now set the legs splayed out. There is a greater chance of the chair collapsed and the legs splaying out,

isn‘t 66 degrees steeper than stock?

 

[Rockhopper70]

Love all the non-Amflow owners, telling us Amflow owners why we bought an Amflow.

I hate to break it to you. But the frame and suspension gives a really plush ride. The lightness has me being able to learn tricks I cannot do on my plus 25kgs Merida. And with the Amflow, I have a full power EMTB that I can lift into my car, over fences, carry up a slope, without staining or injuring myself. It integrates the SRAM wireless shifting beautifully with coast shifting and power reduction when changing gears to protect the chain, and give more cassette life.

I have tuned the suspension for me and love it. I can confidently leap off drops far higher than when on my Merida. Both these bikes have the same suspension travel. But everything just feels so much smoother on the Amflow.

Not saying the Amflow is for everyone. But it's more than a motor and battery. I have the Pro Model, and with very simple and cost effective modifications to tyres and wheels. It becomes even more effective downhill. I rarely run with factory tyres. And I always mullet my EMTBs, unless they come mulleted.

That said. I would definitely not steepen the head angle. Infact I'm thinking of putting the flip chip back to 29, to give a sub 64 degree head angle with my 27.5 rear wheel. I love the ability to drop off obstacles when descending, without fear of going OTHB. My only hesitation is the reduced BB height. I love the clearance in really technical terrain.

But if someone prefers a steeper head angle. Well that's their preferred configuration. Everyone has their own setup. That's why they make frames and suspension adjustable.

And as far as voiding warranty. I setup my EMTB to give the absolute best ride. If that voids warranty. Then so be it. I'd prefer to have the best riding EMTB, than a compromised setup, that means I might save money in the future. No EMTB will be perfect out of the box, so set it up for you, and just be the best you can be.

If you ride worrying about cost. You aren't maximising the experience.

You clearly have a lot more disposable income than a lot of regular joes who can afford and only run one bike.

 

[Rockhopper70]

isn‘t 66 degrees steeper than stock?

He slackened it. Depends which side you measure it from, but it’s a mod to slacken the head angle.

 

[crisillo]

He slackened it. Depends which side you measure it from, but it’s a mod to slacken the head angle.

no, he argued exactly the opposite. he doesn‘t like how slack modern bikes are, so he adapted an adjustable headset (that people usually use to slacken a bike) to steepen it.

 

[Rockhopper70]

Aaaaahhhhhh.
My fault for top reading. He’s used a “slack-R” to steepen R.
I’ll go stand in the corner with a cone hat on.
I still stand by the wrong bike comment then, if head angle is such an important factor to the OP. And I still think it’s a warranty voidable mod.

 

[Astro66]

You clearly have a lot more disposable income than a lot of regular joes who can afford and only run one bike.

I paid AUD$4700 for the spare bike. That's £2300. I build my own wheels. I sourced nearly every part I've fitted to my EMTBs on Aliexpress. Infact nearly everything I buy myself these days is from Aliexpress.

Having disposable income to spend on an EMTB, is only because I prioritise Mountain Biking. It's about setting yourself up so your budgetary outgoings are minimal.

Anyway ..... Getting back to choosing Amflow. The motor is exceptional. But I rarely use the high power mode. The thing I noticed the most when I first rode the bike was how much softer the same runs felt. The next thing was how much easier I could get the bike in the air, to get over obstacles. The next thing, was how much more confidently I could move the bike around, when it was in the air.

Its just so much closer to riding a MTB than any other EMTB I've ridden , but sure. When you need it. It has this extraordinary power and acceleration that you can tap into.

 

[sethimus]

Aaaaahhhhhh.
My fault for top reading. He’s used a “slack-R” to steepen R.
I’ll go stand in the corner with a cone hat on.
I still stand by the wrong bike comment then, if head angle is such an important factor to the OP. And I still think it’s a warranty voidable mod.

shssss now, you clearly don’t know what you talking about about

 

[Mike O]

Aaaaahhhhhh.
My fault for top reading. He’s used a “slack-R” to steepen R.
I’ll go stand in the corner with a cone hat on.
I still stand by the wrong bike comment then, if head angle is such an important factor to the OP. And I still think it’s a warranty voidable mod.

Personally, I wouldn't buy the Amflow as designed in the current distribution/support circumstances in my area. But my understanding is that New Zealand has a very different relationship to Amflow. And he has needs that are not offered by the competition.

I'm very happy that everyone is NOT me. How can it be that we are so critical of someone else's choices ("wrong bike choice") who has the resources and talent to address their particular needs?

There does not seem to be any other bike that would require less modification to end up where the OP wants to be. What bike would you start with to get to his desired spec?

Thanks @Ridgydidge, I learned something about what is possible for people with the talent to do so.

 

[Rockhopper70]

Ok, I’ve admitted I got the slacker\steeper thing muddled up as I’ve never heard of anyone riding an MTB making their head angle steeper.
For what it is worth, I cannot imagine dropping £6,000 on a bike knowing full well it wasn’t the geometry I wanted, particularly when I have an exact angle of preference in my mind, which the bike wasn’t. And the modification would, Im sure, void any frame warranty. But yes, we are all different.
I did give the OP kudos for the machining job though. I can’t take that away from them.

 

[Ridgydidge]

Its all good.

 

[Ridgydidge]

That said. I would definitely not steepen the head angle. Infact I'm thinking of putting the flip chip back to 29, to give a sub 64 degree head angle with my 27.5 rear wheel.

…unless I ride (terrifying to me) steep terrain - where I’m always worried about going otb anyway - then the understeer in corners at slack head angles annoys me. I find around 66 degrees it’s far more on point, such that the bike goes where you ask it.

Still, ymmv, and indeed, each to their own!

 

[Astro66]

Whatever works for you, is how you set your bike up.

I just came back from a ride around Clovelly Beach. It's all urban features, with sandstone, concrete and stairs. Going down the stairs and leaping off walls, and sandstone features, I'm loving the slack head angle. Just feel so much more controllable, and better body position.

But climbing up the stairs, the biggest set being about 10 stairs, I would have loved a steeper head angle. But I much prefer feeling safer going downhill than up.

Here's some of the area I like to play around in winter, as there is no one around. Up and down the staircases circled at right, Then jumping off the sandstone wall circled to the left. The Amflow just eats this stuff up compared to my Merida E160.

 

[Plyphon]

I don’t know, but I’m staggered how many Amflow owners seem to have bought them JUST FOR THE POWER. Bike geo would be my first priority, not motor,

One might argue bike geo is at a point where it is fairly standardised and is no longer the standout feature of any but the most radical frame designs out there.

We're riding 'trail' bikes that a few years ago would be considered enduro geometry. All mountain bikes that would be a downhill bike in the 2015's. Hell, even pure XC bikes are coming with 120mm Fox 34's and 67 degree HA's. To put that into comparison, the 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson had a 67 degree HA - and that bike was considered an enduro bike at the time!

Yes we've had 10 years of development since that Bronson, but the trails have remained largely the same.

So if geometry is no longer a key selling point, it's only natural to look at other parts of the bike - like the motor.

Edit: I actually love this quote from Singletrack:

The bike weaves and wanders around the trail due variously to the relaxed 67° head angle

Santa Cruz Bronson C

Descent mapping, skill enhancing: here are our thoughts on the Santa Cruz enduro trail slaya

singletrackworld.com

 

[Kalvinator]

Love all the non-Amflow owners, telling us Amflow owners why we bought an Amflow.

I hate to break it to you. But the frame and suspension gives a really plush ride. The lightness has me being able to learn tricks I cannot do on my plus 25kgs Merida. And with the Amflow, I have a full power EMTB that I can lift into my car, over fences, carry up a slope, without staining or injuring myself. It integrates the SRAM wireless shifting beautifully with coast shifting and power reduction when changing gears to protect the chain, and give more cassette life.

I have tuned the suspension for me and love it. I can confidently leap off drops far higher than when on my Merida. Both these bikes have the same suspension travel. But everything just feels so much smoother on the Amflow.

Not saying the Amflow is for everyone. But it's more than a motor and battery. I have the Pro Model, and with very simple and cost effective modifications to tyres and wheels. It becomes even more effective downhill. I rarely run with factory tyres. And I always mullet my EMTBs, unless they come mulleted.

That said. I would definitely not steepen the head angle. Infact I'm thinking of putting the flip chip back to 29, to give a sub 64 degree head angle with my 27.5 rear wheel. I love the ability to drop off obstacles when descending, without fear of going OTHB. My only hesitation is the reduced BB height. I love the clearance in really technical terrain.

But if someone prefers a steeper head angle. Well that's their preferred configuration. Everyone has their own setup. That's why they make frames and suspension adjustable.

And as far as voiding warranty. I setup my EMTB to give the absolute best ride. If that voids warranty. Then so be it. I'd prefer to have the best riding EMTB, than a compromised setup, that means I might save money in the future. No EMTB will be perfect out of the box, so set it up for you, and just be the best you can be.

If you ride worrying about cost. You aren't maximising the experience.

Thank you for posting this. I own the basic silver pl carbon, and I LOVE it. I'm a 68 year old mtb'er with really tired knees. Out of the box, this bike is powerful, light, sleek and plenty strong enough for me. The components are not "top of the line", but that's ok with me. Easily customizable, etc. I'm happy with mine!

 

[Kalvinator]

I paid AUD$4700 for the spare bike. That's £2300. I build my own wheels. I sourced nearly every part I've fitted to my EMTBs on Aliexpress. Infact nearly everything I buy myself these days is from Aliexpress.

Having disposable income to spend on an EMTB, is only because I prioritise Mountain Biking. It's about setting yourself up so your budgetary outgoings are minimal.

Anyway ..... Getting back to choosing Amflow. The motor is exceptional. But I rarely use the high power mode. The thing I noticed the most when I first rode the bike was how much softer the same runs felt. The next thing was how much easier I could get the bike in the air, to get over obstacles. The next thing, was how much more confidently I could move the bike around, when it was in the air.

Its just so much closer to riding a MTB than any other EMTB I've ridden , but sure. When you need it. It has this extraordinary power and acceleration that you can tap into.

100% agree!

 

[Ridgydidge]

We're riding 'trail' bikes that a few years ago would be considered enduro geometry.

Ahh, now those were the days…. this guy knows (apologies if you’ve seen it before)

 

[Cactus Jack Slade]

This is a note to report my angleset install on the Amflow. It is possible!

Two reasons - First I prefer around 66 degrees HA as I don't ride burly steeps, rather, less steeply inclined blues with the odd black feature. (Not all of us live in Whistler - I consider most bikes are too slack these days.) Anyway, not a mainstream view probs! Second, when I investigated the prospects for an angleset - taking the Amflow's headset apart - I was pretty aghast. I mean, what a crappy design. First, there is the giving up of 15mm of head tube rigidity to install that funky knock block ring, which is then never even used. Talk about unresolved. Then, the upper bearing uses a 52mm bearing with a flimsy sliver of an alu spacer to 'support' the top of the fork stem. No wonder it flexes in this area. Its a joke. As much as I admire the Chinese, this innovation bravery just ended up a dog's breakfast.

And as a further insult of all this, no existing angleset could be made to fit. However, with some thought I have been able to adapt 9point8's 'Slack-R' IS angleset (specifically, the ‘November’ headset). These are a truly great design, and I have run them on my Tallboy (for a steeper head angle) and my wife's Epic (for a slacker head angle) to great effect.

To do that, for the Amflow, I had to make a couple of custom adapters for the top and bottom, so as to overcome the Amflow's unique design language. My men's shed has an excellent lathe, so armed with a nice chunk of 6061 ally, I set to work.

View attachment 162872

For the bottom, I removed the knock block ring and crafted a 5mm spacer to sit on top of the existing 10mm of the angleset's intrusion into the frame, making up the total 15mm to the bearing seat inside the Amflow's head stem.

For the top, I machined a 52mm insert, fashioned to take the Slack-R's upper cup assembly. Into that I popped a standard 41mm bearing off an old Cane Creek 40 headset I had laying around.

I also had to take a smidge off the diameter of the Slack-R's bottom tube assembly, to allow it to fit inside the head tube of the Amflow. The resulting assembly can be seen in the following photo.

View attachment 162873

It all fits great, and I am super happy with the results. Here is the final install.

View attachment 162874

There are multiple benefits:
. First, I get a head angle of an estimated 65.8 degrees - pretty close to my preferred 66 degrees (= 64.5 + November 1.6 Slack-R - ~0.3 degree lost due to the higher stack that comes from the angleset)
. Second, I get an approximately 1cm higher stack - helping to reduce a common criticism of the Amflow geo (although I get a slightly slacker seat angle - had to adjust my seat forward and the angle down a smidge)
. Third, perhaps most importantly, I get a rock solid connection between the frame and fork. The Slack-R gets tightened up to 40Nm with a special supplied tool to hold everything together inside the head tube. This solidity is helped by the fact that the bearings are now 15cm apart on the fork stem, rather than the previous 11cm - giving so much more leverage on the fork. And I've replaced that flimsy alu top ring with a solid chunk of close fitting alu.

Overall, it is an amazing result. Its hard to describe, but the bike now feels almost burly. It cuts in like a scalpel, allowing incredibly precise line choice. All up, I think it overcomes one of the major problems with the Amflow frame. Ride on!

Very nice work! I too am a "tinkerer"... can't seem to stop tryin to improve something. I actually went with a 2 degree Wolftooth Geoset headset (BACKWARDS) in my Ibis Oso for a steeper HT angle.... and I love it. Much quicker and still plenty stable on the steep. Keep up the good work, wish I had the tools to do my own thing like you!

 

[Winford]

Having disposable income to spend on an EMTB

The health benefits of riding outweigh any cost. If I liked the Sworks Gen4 I would have bought it.

Glad I went your route, I will probably mullet as well.

These bikes can add many years to ones life, if you actually ride them. Its funny I live in the endurance capitol of the world, and the fastest guys out on the trails are in their 60s and a few in their 50s. We have two 68 year old tearing it up right now.
If I make it to 68 and can still tear it up! priceless