2027 Orbea Wild LT Released - Avinox Powered

[Rob Rides EMTB]

But really, if Bosch doubled their power and opened up the top speed above Class 1 power limits (which they could do effortlessly) OR the Class 1 limits were vigorously enforced, what would Avinox have of substance over Bosch? A bit of looks with a corresponding loss in handling proficiency?
The motor system has strong merits, but to behave as if the Avinox is meaningfully functionally better than the competitors outside of looks and above Class 1 power levels, is dishonest imo.

The market has already decided the answer to this.

Coulda / woulda / shoulda - doesnt matter - horse has bolted.

 

[nickf]

but you can see on this very thread some of them considering the switch just due to a fake 750w cap.

How do you know it's because of the "fake 750W cap" and not simply because they love the bike and that's the motor it comes with?

 

[b33k34]

what would Avinox have of substance over Bosch? A bit of looks with a corresponding loss in handling proficiency?
The motor system has strong merits, but to behave as if the Avinox is meaningfully functionally better than the competitors

That speed sensor ring makes a significant difference. The others are only getting a speed reading every 2m + you ride. Avinox get that every 5cm. Their screen and software and integrations (GPS and upload to Strava seems so obvious ) are a big step ahead. - spesh and Bosch both missed a trick there as their head units looked flash enough to have that integrated.

No.

Spesh - They have to do something urgent right now and huge fundamental changes are needed.

Bosch are clearly not that far off Avinox in reality. Spesh messed up badly. They ignored that weight is important and delivered a huge heavy motor on heavy bikes that they’d held back after overstocking on the previous generation so was already passed by Bosch. You can understand why they prioritised reliability but having their own exclusive motors went very quickly from moat to millstone.

Shimano is the interesting one. I can’t believe they’ve given up but the ep801 felt a pretty minor update over the ep8, and that was 4 years ago. The software updates since didn’t set the world on fire (I like their fine tune mode to get something in between trail and boost but I don’t think anyone needs 15 power levels (and this stuff needs to be there by default - I’m sure the majority of riders never drove into the painfully slow app). Their lack of integrated screens looks shonky and the generally poor ergonomics of their controls (compared to the effort they put into their shifters and brakes) is just weird (Orbea developed their own ffs). There must surely be a new Shimano motor imminent

SRAM too. It’s nearly 2 years since they launched their motor and I can’t think I’ve heard of a single bike using it. I’ve definitely never seen anyone riding a bike with it on.

 

[nickf]

And do not unfer estimate the power of aesthetics. The form factor of the 800wh avinox battery vs the bosch one is so much more pleasing on the eye. And looks play a real role in the sale of high end bikes

Ironically, as I understand it, when Bosch set about designing their latest batteries they consulted with the bike designers who all said they wanted a shorter battery so that more weight could be kept low on the bike. So that's what Bosch delivered and then Avinox came out with batteries with completely the opposite form factor and now that's all the bike brands want to have!

You'd have to say that the bike brands didn't understand their customers! Yes we're all geeks and want low CofG, but faced with that slim downtube we all go weak-kneed and glassy-eyed

 

[Suns_PSD]

That speed sensor ring makes a significant difference. The others are only getting a speed reading every 2m + you ride. Avinox get that every 5cm. Their screen and software and integrations (GPS and upload to Strava seems so obvious ) are a big step ahead. - spesh and Bosch both missed a trick there as their head units looked flash enough to have that integrated.

Bosch actually discusses this exact item in a tech release And they state that the reluctor ring was a sloppy way to do this with an extra wire and poor sensitivity. They use an internal sensor that they claim picks up thousands of times per wheel rotation.
I think the lower reaction speed of the avinox made people think they were getting some sort of a magical torque sensing. But literally Orbea appears to have went more towards Bosch reactivity with their RS tune.
Don't confuse this with the max wheel speed sensor that only hits one time per wheel rotation.
My Kiox 400 does all of that and more such as jump count, etc. In fact I just did a brief ride in my hood and a friend of mine thumbed me up on Strava. I didn't even know it was linking to that as I didn't turn on Strava at all.

 

[Brawwp]

Bosch actually discusses this exact item in a tech release And they state that the reluctor ring was a sloppy way to do this with an extra wire and poor sensitivity. They use an internal sensor that they claim picks up thousands of times per wheel rotation.
I think the lower reaction speed of the avinox made people think they were getting some sort of a magical torque sensing. But literally Orbea appears to have went more towards Bosch reactivity with their RS tune.
Don't confuse this with the max wheel speed sensor that only hits one time per wheel rotation.
My Kiox 400 does all of that and more such as jump count, etc. In fact I just did a brief ride in my hood and a friend of mine thumbed me up on Strava. I didn't even know it was linking to that as I didn't turn on Strava at all.

Oh so media = bad if they praise Avinox, but you expect Bosch to tell you if the Avinox sensor is better?

Ok guys, the Bosch is better in every way. The media saying otherwise are all bias. All of us avinox “fanboys” were paid by dji. We’re all weak power hungry beginners and power power power is all we care about. 28mph everywhere all the time. If someone says their avinox doesn’t rattle they’re lying. Reliability? Forget it. All the avinox tech, fake news and marketing.

Bosch is best. Everything else is fake paid off news and lying. I know you guys needed to hear that. Let’s move on now. If Avinox doesn’t interest you we can stop the comparisons since you guys don’t believe anything anyone says good about it anyway.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Testing the Bike Handling Card:

 

[Fangs2k]

I dont have any data at all, only anecdotal, and what I see and hear. But I'd estimate its hugely in favour of Avinox over any other motor system at the moment on mid to high end.

Maybe if we separated "hard core, in the know" riders (like most on this forum) I'd say that an extremely high percentage of riders would be choosing an Avinox powered bike over anything else at the moment, for their next ebike purchase.

Some of that is chicken vs egg - most new performance emtb's are Avinox powered, so the choice for anything else is being reduced as every month goes by.

Cheers Rob.

Interestingly, I just got back from a meal out with a bunch of folks I’ve been walking with today, and the guy I was sat next to mentioned he had an e-mountain bike.

Without me asking he told me it was an Orbea Wild, to which I asked if it was the Bosch version. He looked a bit puzzled so I mentioned the Avinox version that was just launched.

He had zero idea, said that he just purchased a bike he liked the look of and how it rode, and was in his budget. Said he hadn’t looked at a bike since.

That’s the reality of this isn’t it, for most, they buy a bike when they need one and whatever is available. A few years back that was a Bosch or a Specialized powered whatever, currently it’s lots of Avinox bikes, and in a few years time it will be who knows.

Quite why it causes the arguments it does I’m not sure!