DH World Cup thread

I don’t think the example you have provided is applicable as it’s a much smaller field.

In the WC DH finals there are 15 women entrants and 30 men. The average finish times are 3:45 and 4:00 mins respectively. Even setting off with no holdups when the previous starter finishes, that is over three hours of racing. Would they want to broadcast three hours? It likely wouldn’t make a difference to the riders as they’d still have a start time, but perhaps they want to avoid issues with changing weather in that wider window of time?

Maybe the broadcasters only give them a specific time slot? If it was just broadcast on YouTube it wouldn’t have such constraints?
 
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Rockhopper70 said:
I don’t think the example you have provided is applicable as it’s a much smaller field.

In the WC DH finals there are 15 women entrants and 30 men. The average finish times are 3:45 and 4:00 mins respectively. Even setting off with no holdups when the previous starter finishes, that is over three hours of racing. Would they want to broadcast three hours? It likely wouldn’t make a difference to the riders as they’d still have a start time, but perhaps they want to avoid issues with changing weather in that wider window of time?

Maybe the broadcasters only give them a specific time slot? If it was just broadcast on YouTube it wouldn’t have such constraints?
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As the pinnacle of the sport, they should have the resources and ability to make it happen. I suspect the apathy we see here is why there’s no pressure to produce a professional-level broadcast event. Might as well just phone it in.

Look at WC soccer. I realize the scale is completely different, but imagine the broadcasters saying, there’s so many games we can only show the fourth quarter for games we think aren’t important… even when viewers are paying to see every competition. Feels the same.

Figure it out (broadcast) guys.

What makes it worse is this is not compelling TV. The sport will continue to be relegated to a minuscule audience if this is the product. I know Id rather watch regional DH where I can see everyone’s full run.
 
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Rockhopper70 said:
In the WC DH finals there are 15 women entrants and 30 men. The average finish times are 3:45 and 4:00 mins respectively. Even setting off with no holdups when the previous starter finishes, that is over three hours of racing.
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Powerslider said:
As the pinnacle of the sport, they should have the resources and ability to make it happen
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Are you proposing interdimensional magic ?

Or maybe picture in picture in picture ?

I guess they could just cater to 3d headset owners and have 4 feeds,.or 5, feck it, we can have live overall presenter chat, running side by side and i just rotate my head to focus on the parallel feed I want with the sound adjusting accordingly.

Or mainstream it, call it Super plate (someone claimed Super Bowl - which has nothing to do with bowling 🎳 )

Actually, we could have a competition Super ????? 🤔

Drag it out to 12 hours and have a meal break between each rider for the US audience ? (Sorry,I'm an asshole 😔)
 
Powerslider said:
I suspect the apathy we see here is why there’s no pressure to produce a professional-level broadcast event.
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Also chuckling at this. Apparently our fault WBD don't meet this guy's exacting standards.

So far today across three posts, you've called forum members liars, apathetic & gaslighting bullshitters. Is everything ok at home?
 
RustyMTB said:
So far today across three posts, you've called forum members liars, apathetic & gaslighting bullshitters. Is everything ok at home?
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Touché. You genuinely make me smile here. Everything is great personally. Thanks for asking.

Gaslighting is a trigger for me. The apathy kind of disgusts me too tbh.

I’m just appalled by the coverage for a sport that I’m really into. I’m repeating myself, but I’m a huge sports fan and that last broadcast was literally the worst I’ve ever seen. Not exaggerating for impact either. It was that much of a failure.
 
Zimmerframe said:
Are you proposing interdimensional magic ?

Or maybe picture in picture in picture ?

I guess they could just cater to 3d headset owners and have 4 feeds,.or 5, feck it, we can have live overall presenter chat, running side by side and i just rotate my head to focus on the parallel feed I want with the sound adjusting accordingly.

Or mainstream it, call it Super plate (someone claimed Super Bowl - which has nothing to do with bowling 🎳 )

Actually, we could have a competition Super ????? 🤔

Drag it out to 12 hours and have a meal break between each rider for the US audience ? (Sorry,I'm an asshole 😔)
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I’m proposing any changes that are required to broadcast the entire event like nearly every other sport does. That could mean longer broadcasts; or fewer competitors; or something else. Whatever it takes but not showing every athlete’s full run is simply unacceptable. Get creative. That’s not how you increase viewers and grow the sport. That’s checking a box. It’s lazy and disrespects the competition in my view.

Somehow they figured out how to do it with skiing competitions for example. They can do it here too.
 
RustyMTB said:
So far today across three posts, you've called forum members liars, apathetic & gaslighting bullshitters. Is everything ok at home?
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I don't want to be argumentative, but I'm pretty sure there are members which would fit all of those categories 😁


Powerslider said:
I’m just appalled by the coverage for a sport that I’m really into. I’m repeating myself, but I’m a huge sports fan and that last broadcast was literally the worst I’ve ever seen.
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You need to drink Guinness when watching.

It even tells you to chill before you open a can.

1000030231.webp
 
Rockhopper70 said:
Well I didn’t fair too badly despite my absence. So that might be an omen for the next round when I’m on holiday again over the practice sessions, qualies and races.

I see PinkBike have also changed the pricing structure so it’s going to be a little trickier from here on in to get a team of big hitters.
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I'm on Holiday in Indonesia for Lenzerhide so hope that omen is correct.

Yes, a well overdue update of the pricing, 1st round was way too easy. I hope it keeps going up because it adds a lot more varibility to the choices.

Also agree with you Rusty, having people like Bruni, Brosnan, Goldstone etc way down the list puts real pressure on them in future races. Makes for a VERY exciting season ahead.
 
Powerslider said:
I’m just appalled by the coverage for a sport that I’m really into. I’m repeating myself, but I’m a huge sports fan and that last broadcast was literally the worst I’ve ever seen. Not exaggerating for impact either. It was that much of a failure.
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I wasn't going to reply as you are obviously not arguing in good faith and I resent being abused or being accused of "gaslighting" on here when all anyone has said is the truth.

It honestly seems to me that you have never watched downhill world cup before and thats okay, but I have watched the last 14 seasons and it has literally been like the last race on every single race of every year. You won't change it (no matter how bad you think it is), I already see you don't watch anymore and thats probably for the best.

Let everyone else on here enjoy it.
 
JP-NZ said:
I wasn't going to reply as you are obviously not arguing in good faith and I resent being abused or being accused of "gaslighting" on here when all anyone has said is the truth.

It honestly seems to me that you have never watched downhill world cup before and thats okay, but I have watched the last 14 seasons and it has literally been like the last race on every single race of every year. You won't change it (no matter how bad you think it is), I already see you don't watch anymore and thats probably for the best.

Let everyone else on here enjoy it.
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The good faith comment is garbage but I’m not going to change your opinion so I’ll just move on from that slight.

TBH, you’re right. I haven’t ever attempted to watch a full broadcast of WCDH. That’s why I’m shocked it’s so bad!

I was ready to pay for HBO Max every month purely to watch all the events. I even woke up very, very early last weekend to watch the live competition. However, when I see the organizers and television producers apparently are so inept they can’t show the full competition, it’s clear that I’ve wasted my money. I cancelled my HBO Max subscription and will catch the highlights on YouTube for free.

I’m not sure if it’s funny or sad that people are making excuses for this television fail.
 
Powerslider said:
The good faith comment is garbage but I’m not going to change your opinion so I’ll just move on from that slight.

TBH, you’re right. I haven’t ever attempted to watch a full broadcast of WCDH. That’s why I’m shocked it’s so bad!

I was ready to pay for HBO Max every month purely to watch all the events. I even woke up very, very early last weekend to watch the live competition. However, when I see the organizers and television producers apparently are so inept they can’t show the full competition, it’s clear that I’ve wasted my money. I cancelled my HBO Max subscription and will catch the highlights on YouTube for free.

I’m not sure if it’s funny or sad that people are making excuses for this television fail.
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Must admit, i have no clue at all what you're on about. The coverage is bloody superb. OK, Ric is a bit of a MMMMmmmm something... but the coverage is great.
As he said above, if you covered everyone in finals, then add in junior boys and girls, you'd be in the 7 hours bracket and no-one is watching for 7+ hours straight... Just no-one.
This way you get all the filler, then a lot of the top 10 are pretty much full runs... I can't see how you could ask or want for more.

DH is at it's PEAK currently in terms of tech, riders, racing, you're honestly living the dream here.
 
Weeksy said:
Must admit, i have no clue at all what you're on about. The coverage is bloody superb. OK, Ric is a bit of a MMMMmmmm something... but the coverage is great.
As he said above, if you covered everyone in finals, then add in junior boys and girls, you'd be in the 7 hours bracket and no-one is watching for 7+ hours straight... Just no-one.
This way you get all the filler, then a lot of the top 10 are pretty much full runs... I can't see how you could ask or want for more.

DH is at its PEAK currently in terms of tech, riders, racing, you're honestly living the dream here.
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I was coming back from the Lakes on Sunday afternoon and passed loads of DH bikes heading south. Seems there was a SDA DH race at AE Forest. Was that one not on the radar, or just too damn far?
 
Rockhopper70 said:
I was coming back from the Lakes on Sunday afternoon and passed loads of DH bikes heading south. Seems there was a SDA DH race at AE Forest. Was that one not on the radar, or just too damn far?
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Hi mate, the boy is mid A-level exams, we were slightly tempted but was not quite the right timing. He's been racing a few Enduro races too lately and is heading out to Europe for a couple of EDR/EWS this summer once we finish improving his bike with the kind support from TFTuned. He's got Pearce and NAtionals in the UK but we've not really done much in Scotland apart from Fort William and SDA at Inners.
 
I really wanted to comment a few things, but in truth the bear-pit that is Pinkbike comments is not full of sane people at times :)

As a sport, DH prize/pay is bloody awful considering the risk factor, not of death as that's pretty uncommon, but injuries, it's literally EVERY weekend at DH someone will break things..
But paying the bloke in 30th place an extra £200 isn't the answer, neither is paying the bloke in 1st an extra £5000. It has to be an industry wide thing where everyone gets better..

But there's no money in the sport.

The big question is, if companies are selling millions upon millions of bikes per year, why is there no money in MTB... where does it all go. How are all these companies folding if bikes are selling...
I don't know the answer in truth.
 
I've long known the prize money is shocking in the context of an elite sport with a worldwide audience. What I didn't know was the purses for even more niche disciplines such as Cyclocross are much higher. And it's a very fair point he raises that charging north of 40,000 Euros per team entry & dishing out around ten in prize money across all riders begs the question who benefits?

DH has long struck me as one of the sports that relies on the participants' passion to the extent the UCI can exploit it. Someone is making the decisions on this & I don't know where the money goes but I do know where it doesn't.
 
RustyMTB said:
I've long known the prize money is shocking in the context of an elite sport with a worldwide audience. What I didn't know was the purses for even more niche disciplines such as Cyclocross are much higher. And it's a very fair point he raises that charging north of 40,000 Euros per team entry & dishing out around ten in prize money across all riders begs the question who benefits?

DH has long struck me as one of the sports that relies on the participants' passion to the extent the UCI can exploit it. Someone is making the decisions on this & I don't know where the money goes but I do know where it doesn't.
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DH is WAY more niche in terms of viewing audiences than CX mate, CX gets massive crowds in EU and is a TV staple, they take a weeks holiday for it in Belgium, most of the country, there's literally a shit-tonne of people and sponsors...
That's the thing though, sponsors.... MTB and DH are waaaaaaaay behind the curve for sponsors outside of MTB.

So for example you've got the Trek Baloise Lions. Baloise (or Bâloise Group) is a major Swiss financial and insurance services provider headquartered in Basel, Switzerland. It provides a mix of life, non-life, and specialty insurance, as well as banking and asset management, across Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, and Luxembourg

You've got Pauwels Sauzen - Altez. Pauwels are the equivalent of HP Sauce/Ketchup over in the EU and HUGE.

Then you've got the pro roadies teams like Alpecin, like Visma etc... again, non cycling related money coming into the sport.

Look at the DH teams, they're all in-industry and if the industry is struggling as we're all being told, then how can we expect the teams/riders to do well financially unless money comes into the sport.

'we' are fans of DH and see it as something big... but 99% of people have never even heard of Goldstone/Bruni. But you can bet your arse a lot more know VdP, Wout and Pidcock etc.
 
Weeksy said:
DH is WAY more niche in terms of viewing audiences than CX mate
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Fair enough, what I've done there is look through my own bias goggles - I couldn't name a single cx rider. On the outside money, it has been around in the past. Sponsors get involved for a return so to my eyes either they don't see it or the effort to put eyes in front of hoardings isn't there - undeniably the sport is a compelling spectacle & could easily be a marketeer's dream.
 
If you do a quick youtube for a CX race you'll see a bucket load of sponsor signs absolutely everyhwere.

CX seems to get 50,000 for the Worlds for example with an average WC race getting 20,000+.

A quick Google seems to show the actual fan numbers are not that different at WC events.. But with CX you've got things like National TV showing a tonne of races, without subscription to view etc..
This is for me the biggest thing for DH, the fact that it's expensive to watch and unless you're a fan, you'd never even know it existed.
 
You do wonder what conversations Trek for example have had with Lidl.

- Hey guys, you know we have a dh team too right?

- Yeah, no thanks. 🤔
 
RustyMTB said:
You do wonder what conversations Trek for example have had with Lidl.

- Hey guys, you know we have a dh team too right?

- Yeah, no thanks. 🤔
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I hear you there, it's weird as if you look at even XC, they've got a far 'better' setup than the DHers in terms of exposure, sponsors etc... but again a fair few of them come from the road/CX side of things too.
 
Yep & we loop back to the question on why it can't gain a foothold with the public. Trek's DH sponsors as the example is typical - the industry talking to itself.

Untitled.webp
 
That’s why it was quite a big deal when Adidas hopped on with Norco. You guys are right though 95% of teams sponsors are MTB companies. Maybe bigger brands don’t see sponsorship as worth it for DH?
 
I remember when Charlie Hatton won world champs at Fort William, the BBC had the rights to the broadcast & it was shown live on BBC1, the UK's major broadcast channel during the UCI world championships event in 2023.

The host was Claire Balding who is a very famous face in tv sport coverage here & I recall her saying at the end she had no idea how exciting the sport was to watch & could she have more of it? Then of course it disappeared back to Red Bull, so for whatever reason, it just doesn't cut through & now it's just a bolt on for a giant subscription service & treated as a cynical exercise in driving revenues which by definition lowers its profile.
 
RustyMTB said:
I remember when Charlie Hatton won world champs at Fort William, the BBC had the rights to the broadcast & it was shown live on BBC1, the UK's major broadcast channel during the UCI world championships event in 2023.

The host was Claire Balding who is a very famous face in tv sport coverage here & I recall her saying at the end she had no idea how exciting the sport was to watch & could she have more of it? Then of course it disappeared back to Red Bull, so for whatever reason, it just doesn't cut through & now it's just a bolt on for a giant subscription service & treated as a cynical exercise in driving revenues which by definition lowers its profile.
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See that's where it's a tough one. It's never going to make standard terrestrial TV in the UK. So it's either bundled in with TNT/HBO, which can work as people may go through "live and upcoming" and find it.
Or it's on RedBull, which no-one apart from a niche bunch of people would ever see.... Even though it was free, it was only free if you knew it existed and when it was.
But even the CX/Road/XC now is all HBO/TNT etc, so people are deffo paying for it.

But the MTB crowd are VERY anti-payment because they feel it should be free because of RedBull.
I'm the only person i know who watches DH on my HBO subscription. I use that for Road/CX and XC as well so is very good value to me.
 
Weeksy said:
But the MTB crowd are VERY anti-payment because they feel it should be free because of RedBull.
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That I think is partly human nature, why should we pay for what was free? & partly people seeing that the product did not improve to justify the price when it changed hands. In fact the opposite happened as the format was tinkered with, reducing the experience. And we lost Warner in the process who was synonymous with it to fans.
 
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