Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition

[Robson]

This happened in March

Damn

 

[TTEngineer]

Ive heard that Crestline has a much higher failure rate compared to other brands due to them using prototype molds.

Most brands are like 3% failure rate, and Ive heard that Crestline is closer to 10%.

So on a run like the Specter that has 300 frames, ~30 failures can be expected.

Have you spoken to Troydon yet? I’m sure he will take care of you, but I am curious as to how the process goes.

That also looked like a very simple bail out. Any idea as to how it failed like that?

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Ive heard that Crestline has a much higher failure rate compared to other brands due to them using prototype molds.

Most brands are like 3% failure rate, and Ive heard that Crestline is closer to 10%.

So on a run like the Specter that has 300 frames, ~30 failures can be expected.

Have you spoken to Troydon yet? I’m sure he will take care of you, but I am curious as to how the process goes.

That also looked like a very simple bail out. Any idea as to how it failed like that?

I haven't heard that, what's your source?

Based on just that video I'd say that suspension has seen the bottom a lot.

 

[BikingBad]

Ive heard that Crestline has a much higher failure rate compared to other brands due to them using prototype molds.

Most brands are like 3% failure rate, and Ive heard that Crestline is closer to 10%.

So on a run like the Specter that has 300 frames, ~30 failures can be expected.

Have you spoken to Troydon yet? I’m sure he will take care of you, but I am curious as to how the process goes.

That also looked like a very simple bail out. Any idea as to how it failed like that?

It’s not easy to see on video but about 20 feet after landing there are small stack of rocks in the middle of trail. I was trying to avoid them and applied full braking force while my ass got stuck between seat tube and rear tire which forced me forward and that’s when I heard top tube crack.
Troydon and I came to an agreement on fair price to replace it with RS181.2 with M2S system.

 

[TTEngineer]

I haven't heard that, what's your source?

Based on just that video I'd say that suspension has seen the bottom a lot.

Well Troydon has said they use prototype molds in several interviews. This allows him to design faster and it’s cheaper. Down side is the molds get out of spec quickly.

An industry insider told me that they have a higher than average failure rate due to the molds. Either way, even if it’s 10%, as long as they take care of the customer, who cares. Is it a frustrating situation, sure. But as long as you’re made whole, does it matter?

 

[Robstyle]

The DH frames were made from proto molds, I'm not sure of the others, but I wonder if the volume being produced from them means it's unlikely. At a 100k a mold, I'd be wanting to save too!

A mold being out of spec causes misalignment, not necessarily a weaker frame. There's definitely variations in different production lines that have seen some frames higher/lower quality than others.

Also @BikingBad I'm genuinely curious what you're hoping to get posting your breakage all over the net? Sounds like it was resolved fairly.
Personally I sit firmly in the 'keeping quiet camp' about things if someone has my back and sorts me out
For counter context, I just got my 5th Crestline, absolutely I've broken things and had issues. I've never ever been let down with any form of support etc from the start. It's been a totally unique experience compared to any other company I've dealt with.

 

[BikeBert]

Troydon and I came to an agreement on fair price to replace it with RS181.2 with M2S system.

Personally I sit firmly in the 'keeping quiet camp' about things if someone has my back and sorts me out
For counter context, I just got my 5th Crestline, absolutely I've broken things and had issues. I've never ever been let down with any form of support etc from the start. It's been a totally unique experience compared to any other company I've dealt with.

Personally, I see it the opposite way. For me, and I think for most people on this forum, posts like this are valuable because they show both sides of the story: the failure and how the manufacturer handled it.

If failures are quietly kept between the owner and the company, nobody else can make an informed decision. I'd much rather know that a frame can fail, how often it seems to happen, and whether the company stands behind its product when it does.

I don't condone the idea of sweeping these things under the carpet. Transparency benefits everyone, including the manufacturer if they provide good customer support. In this case, it sounds like Troydon worked with BikingBad to reach a fair solution, and that's exactly the kind of information I'd want to know before spending several thousand dollars on a frame.

No bike brand is immune to failures. What matters is how they respond when something does go wrong.

On the other hand, without knowing the full context, a proposal of a paid replacement under warranty does not immediately sound like a fair solution to me. A warranty means standing behind your product when there is a legitimate failure, not offering a customer a replacement but still charging them for something that should potentially be covered.

Of course, there may be details we don't know, so it's difficult to judge this specific case. But this is exactly why transparency and open discussion are important.


Also, @Robstyle if you're willing to share, I’d be genuinely interested to hear what parts you broke or what issues you had and how they were resolved. For me, that kind of real-world feedback from owners is one of the most valuable things when considering a bike or a component.

 

[emonty]

Would never trust a frame that snaps on an XC trail.

 

[emonty]

A trustworthy company would recall those frames made by using prototype molds, inform the owners before someone get's seriously hurt.

 

[Wah]

I’m confused. Was a no cost replacement frame not given as an option? Did you just prefer to upgrade to the plaid?

It’s not easy to see on video but about 20 feet after landing there are small stack of rocks in the middle of trail. I was trying to avoid them and applied full braking force while my ass got stuck between seat tube and rear tire which forced me forward and that’s when I heard top tube crack.
Troydon and I came to an agreement on fair price to replace it with RS181.2 with M2S system.

 

[BikingBad]

I’m confused. Was a no cost replacement frame not given as an option? Did you just prefer to upgrade to the plaid?

No, this was not covered under warranty. A Crash Replacement at discounted price was offered, which I accepted. I had the option of in stock 181.1 or wait 1.5 month for M2S announcement for 181.2.

 

[Dwdrums00]

What was the argument for this not being covered under warranty?

 

[erikulator]

This happened in March

Looks like the exact spot where one would incorrectly attach a bike to a mechanic stand

 

[E-NUB]

No, this was not covered under warranty. A Crash Replacement at discounted price was offered, which I accepted. I had the option of in stock 181.1 or wait 1.5 month for M2S announcement for 181.2.

To clarify, you mean it was not fully covered under warranty because you crashed or was this due to frame stand clamping as mentioned above?

This is a bit concerning, certainly would love to know why this failed and also why it's not covered under warranty.

 

[PhoS]

I haven't heard that, what's your source?

Based on just that video I'd say that suspension has seen the bottom a lot.

My bike has seen 1000x the stress of anything demonstrated in that video.

Pushing forward on the seattube and it buckling where it did makes me think the tube was already compromised. You don't have one of those bike racks that holds the frame in the middle right?

 

[EmtbFanatic]

It’s not easy to see on video but about 20 feet after landing there are small stack of rocks in the middle of trail. I was trying to avoid them and applied full braking force while my ass got stuck between seat tube and rear tire which forced me forward and that’s when I heard top tube crack.
Troydon and I came to an agreement on fair price to replace it with RS181.2 with M2S system.

You have a taint of steal my friend

 

[Suns_PSD]

Well Troydon has said they use prototype molds in several interviews. This allows him to design faster and it’s cheaper. Down side is the molds get out of spec quickly.

An industry insider told me that they have a higher than average failure rate due to the molds. Either way, even if it’s 10%, as long as they take care of the customer, who cares. Is it a frustrating situation, sure. But as long as you’re made whole, does it matter?

I love what Troyden does, but generally speaking, ya, it matters a lot actually.

I had a buddy that flew to Whistler with his new Pole, and it broke 10 min into his first run on a bunny jump and definitely effected his entire vacation in several ways such as adding a lot of additional expense, downtime, etc. There is also a real safety issue. Furthermore, some might not be able to afford to pay the discounted upcharge for the new one, or in the case of a Crestie, it might not even be available for months.

I'll tell you that I've read enough Orbea failure stories, almost exclusively on the Al bikes thankfully, that it gave me pause.

Also, I don't even remotely believe that proper molds cost $100K. I'd guess 1/5 of that max.

So, ya, reliability does matter quite a bit.

 

[Powerslider]

I love what Troyden does, but generally speaking, ya, it matters a lot actually.

I had a buddy that flew to Whistler with his new Pole, and it broke 10 min into his first run on a bunny jump and definitely effected his entire vacation in several ways such as adding a lot of additional expense, downtime, etc. There is also a real safety issue. Furthermore, some might not be able to afford to pay the discounted upcharge for the new one, or in the case of a Crestie, it might not even be available for months.

I'll tell you that I've read enough Orbea failure stories, almost exclusively on the Al bikes thankfully, that it gave me pause.

Also, I don't even remotely believe that proper molds cost $100K. I'd guess 1/5 of that max.

So, ya, reliability does matter quite a bit.

 

[TTEngineer]

I love what Troyden does, but generally speaking, ya, it matters a lot actually.

I had a buddy that flew to Whistler with his new Pole, and it broke 10 min into his first run on a bunny jump and definitely effected his entire vacation in several ways such as adding a lot of additional expense, downtime, etc. There is also a real safety issue. Furthermore, some might not be able to afford to pay the discounted upcharge for the new one, or in the case of a Crestie, it might not even be available for months.

I'll tell you that I've read enough Orbea failure stories, almost exclusively on the Al bikes thankfully, that it gave me pause.

Also, I don't even remotely believe that proper molds cost $100K. I'd guess 1/5 of that max.

So, ya, reliability does matter quite a bit.

I was more referring to the jump from 3% industry standard to 10%.

 

[Robstyle]

I heard Troydon say about the mold cost, I was surprised too.