Avinox M2s rattle

[EbikeDoctor]

I just made a quick video, how my m2s sounds, but in trail with the Amflow frame its amplified a lot.

m2s rattle

I'm not a fanboy of anything, especially companys, these are my subjective opinions, i don't care what others experience, right now this is what i experience.

 

[Link]

100% every M2s will have movement and some level of noise like that, zero noise would mean zero movement in the gears and serious tolerance issues and wear. Some might exhibit a bit more than others and even show more when hot, but 100% every motor will have some degree of movement. Complete lack of movement would indicate a binding gear system.

 

[slickrock]

For anyone else wondering, a friend decided to send videos to Avinox support of the noise made by moving the chain ring back and fourth to expose the freeplay in the motor (as per the video on page 1). All our motors in our riding group have this to some level (M2 and M2s). And the response from support was this was normal, all motors (including the M2s) has some movement between gears, no movement would indicate too tight tolerances. So if you did get a motor changed under warranty expect a new one to be the same/similar.

Did you friend have the M2S motor? There will always be play with spur gear motor engagement and going about this way with Avinox Support, it's not surprising that they are coming back with a normative response. There is wiggle room (NPI) here with the M1 and M2 to say that's life, but not the M2S, as it was specifically designed to remove rattle. If the motor rattles while riding, it should be a warranty issue.

 

[Link]

Did you friend have the M2S motor? There will always be play with spur gear motor engagement and going about this way with Avinox Support, it's not surprising that they are coming back with a normative response. There is wiggle room (NPI) here with the M1 and M2 to say that's life, but not the M2S, as it was specifically designed to remove rattle. If the motor rattles while riding, it should be a warranty issue.

 

[Link]

M2s, it doesn’t rattle when riding like the m1
Did, but that play in the gear set can invoke occasional noise from pedal kickback pulling on the gears. The M2s design cannot remove all rattle, any free play in the gear set can be invoked by kickback. The m1 could rattle without kickback, just from trail bounce on my old bike, that’s what the new design does, prevents free play induced rattle, but not kick back induced noise. Despite the marketing saying kickback noise had gone !.... not great in that respect

 

[Pedalerie]

We will see about that...and again: Avinox said in a marketing video they eliminated the sound completely. So do a couple of reviewers. Question is, how many km they rode this motor. After changing to a new motor, I will keep you updated about the noise.

If you are right, this is a huge joke and I would be very disappointed. Then what is the mesh gear is all about?

 

[Link]

I agree, I was expecting silent motor as you say what is the dual mesh for if not to stop kick back !

 

[Iacari]

I just made a quick video, how my m2s sounds, but in trail with the Amflow frame its amplified a lot.

m2s rattle

I'm not a fanboy of anything, especially companys, these are my subjective opinions, i don't care what others experience, right now this is what i experience.

That noise is really bad.
Not even may old gen 4 today 35000km old, makes such a bad noise.

 

[slickrock]

I just made a quick video, how my m2s sounds, but in trail with the Amflow frame its amplified a lot.

m2s rattle

I'm not a fanboy of anything, especially companys, these are my subjective opinions, i don't care what others experience, right now this is what i experience.

Have you submitted a warranty claim? "Normal wear and tear" would not be a defensible counter-claim when it comes to the M2S specifically.

 

[Ceteris01]

Are you having a rattle-related issue? If so, please elaborate on the details: miles until occurrence, amount of slop, etc. If not then go to the Avinox support threads. To answer your question, it has to be Crestline you go through. If they sell that motor system to you then they have to support it. May not be the hand-holding LBS experience, but that's the consequcne of the direct model.

Rattle since the very first ride, bike has maybe 5 miles on it. What is the link for avinox support?

 

[slickrock]

So here is a video of my brand new M2S Rogue before it's maiden voyage. It has zero rattle and zero gear slop/play. This will be my baseline from which to compare again after I put some miles on at various stages.

 

[salko]

I think you should try to wiggle the chainring a bit forth and back ...

 

[slickrock]

I think you should try to wiggle the chainring a bit fort and back ...

I grabbed and wiggled the chainring and effectively did that, but I don't have 3 hands to take the video. Besides, as you can see the chainring dead stops after I let off the crank. I'll post another video when chain is mounted.

 

[Ndanger]

In the "for what its worth" category. I can't help but wonder if the seemingly unexpected delay "or my impatience" if there has been an issue that needed attention and it is the remedy that is creating a delay. Yeah , I am in the "I want it now" mode

 

[Link]

So here is a video of my brand new M2S Rogue before it's maiden voyage. It has zero rattle and zero gear slop/play. This will be my baseline from which to compare again after I put some miles on at various stages.

That’s not how the rattle works at all, none of them rattle from just turning, you need to grab the chainring and move it back and fourth to invoke the noise. Even the M1 didn’t rattle doing what you did there ! Haha

 

[DS.]

 

[billy.sole]

Hi everyone,

it looks like I have the same issue as @zakflip

So for me this is absolutely not a rattle issue, it's something else.

Here is the rasping noise when under load in normal riding conditions.

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Looking forward to the motor being replaced, apparently it will be around 2 weeks for the new unit to arrive.

Hopefully this is a 'batch' issue and nothing else.

For me I still love the bike and having rode with other people on selection of motors, this is still quieter than most even with the fault.

I bought a new AMFLOW PR with the M2 motor just last Friday, three days ago. Already on Saturday I noticed that the motor makes a strange noise under load — something like a light rattling sound. It is not very loud, but when I ride alone, especially on smooth asphalt, it is clearly noticeable. It sounds exactly like zakflip described.

I watched his videos, and based on the sound, it seems that this is most likely the same issue.

I also tried switching the motor assistance off and on. When the assistance is switched off, the noise completely disappears, so I think it is safe to say that the noise is coming from the motor.

I also recorded a video where I switch the assistance off while riding. It is clear that the rattling stops when the assistance is turned off, and starts again once I switch it back on.

- YouTube

The bike currently has around 170km on it, but I noticed this issue almost from the beginning, when the bike had only about 30 km.

Apart from this, I am very happy with the bike and the motor itself.

Tomorrow I will call the dealer, and I hope it can be solved in the same way as in zakflip’s case — that they contact Amflow, order a replacement motor, and I can continue riding the bike until the replacement arrives.

I will keep you updated.

@zakflip , do you have any update on your side? Is the replaced motor still quiet, or has the same noise unfortunately appeared again after some time?

 

[TheKaiser]

So here is a video of my brand new M2S Rogue before it's maiden voyage. It has zero rattle and zero gear slop/play. This will be my baseline from which to compare again after I put some miles on at various stages.

That is a great idea to do a baseline when new and periodic checks in the same conditions, thank you for taking the initiative, and I look forward to the follow ups!

Maybe I've missed them, but have you seen any videos that confirm that these conditions (chain off, ratchet pedaling) will generate a rattle in the "known bad" motors? I don't see any slop/play in yours, in the sense that the ring seems to respond in sync when you start rotating the cranks forward, but most of the bad rattle demonstrations I have seen involve either:
1. chain-off fast manual rotation of the ring back and forth by hand, while holding the cranks steady, or
2. chain-on tugging on the top run of chain as if it was bouncing around on rough terrain, again while holding the cranks steady.

I understand that it seems like the same mechanics are being engaged as your test, but the speed and rotational velocity are very different, as is the amount of inertia on the opposing part when the clutch engages.

Everyone, maybe we should all come up with a mutually agreed upon standardized DIY test/demonstration of rattle, to help the community compare apples to apples? I've watched a variety of rattle demonstration videos, but haven't played around with a rattly Avinox in person to see what the most consistent, reproducible, method is. For folks who have a lot of hands-on rattle testing experience, are my 2 suggestions above sufficient for generating a rattle in every motor that rattles in real-world riding scenarios? It's also good to keep in mind that we don't want some sort of unrealistic testing conditions that generate false positives, generating rattle in a workstand when it's not occurring on the trail in that same motor.

 

[TheKaiser]

Hi everyone,

it looks like I have the same issue as @zakflip



I bought a new AMFLOW PR with the M2 motor just last Friday, three days ago. Already on Saturday I noticed that the motor makes a strange noise under load — something like a light rattling sound. It is not very loud, but when I ride alone, especially on smooth asphalt, it is clearly noticeable. It sounds exactly like zakflip described.

I watched his videos, and based on the sound, it seems that this is most likely the same issue.

I also tried switching the motor assistance off and on. When the assistance is switched off, the noise completely disappears, so I think it is safe to say that the noise is coming from the motor.

I also recorded a video where I switch the assistance off while riding. It is clear that the rattling stops when the assistance is turned off, and starts again once I switch it back on.

- YouTube

The bike currently has around 170km on it, but I noticed this issue almost from the beginning, when the bike had only about 30 km.

Apart from this, I am very happy with the bike and the motor itself.

Tomorrow I will call the dealer, and I hope it can be solved in the same way as in zakflip’s case — that they contact Amflow, order a replacement motor, and I can continue riding the bike until the replacement arrives.

I will keep you updated.

@zakflip , do you have any update on your side? Is the replaced motor still quiet, or has the same noise unfortunately appeared again after some time?

If you don't mind my asking, what country are you in? You're the first person I've seen on here who actually has gotten delivery on a PR, so that is very exciting that they are finally trickling out into people's hands. Not sure how much you've geeked out on the bike so far, but if you have weighed it, I'd love to hear what they're actually coming in at on the scale, along with the relevant spec level and battery size that yours equipped with.

 

[billy.sole]

If you don't mind my asking, what country are you in? You're the first person I've seen on here who actually has gotten delivery on a PR, so that is very exciting that they are finally trickling out into people's hands. Not sure how much you've geeked out on the bike so far, but if you have weighed it, I'd love to hear what they're actually coming in at on the scale, along with the relevant spec level and battery size that yours equipped with.

I am in Slovakia. I had this PR pre-ordered since April. In the beginning of July, most of the shops has received 2 pieces of PR or PR PRO - one of them had to be kept as a demo bike, and the other one was available for sale.

I have asked dealer about the weight and they said its about 24,5kg for my L-size, including the 800Wh battery.

I do not have enough mileage yet to make any detailed evaluation, but so far I am very satisfied. The riding feel is excellent.

This is my first Avinox system. Before this, I had Bosch Gen 4 and Shimano EP8, and this is a completely different level in terms of performance, riding characteristics, and the motor noise itself (even despite my issue with the rattling sound, the motor is still much quieter than the previous motors I had).

 

[slickrock]

That’s not how the rattle works at all, none of them rattle from just turning, you need to grab the chainring and move it back and fourth to invoke the noise. Even the M1 didn’t rattle doing what you did there ! Haha

What you don't know is how it felt when turning the cranks and just how quickly it comes to a stop without any rattle of slop. But like I said:

And since then rode the bike. Not rattle, no slop.