E8000 "bottom bracket" bearing play after 1400km

[Gary]

Even though it rarely moves much now I'd been thinking of copying the one Nico Vouilloz runs on his Lappierre but making it out of some old plastic packaging folded in half so the fold wraps round the adjacent spoke and the other end drilled with a hole for either side of the magnet to pop through and cable tied closed but your idea is far simpler. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Danijel]

@Danijel check the pivot bearings where the rear triangle connect to the FOLD linkage. I had a dry bearing there which would tick at the same point of each pedal stroke.

I'm gonna check that out! Thanks!

 

[Japuserid]

Cheap and simple magnet fix, has worked well and never let me down.

 

[Danijel]

Hey guys! Just a quick question regarding rear suspension. I have a Fox Float DPS on my Jam2 that off the top feels a bit weird. From the top off to the sag suspension it doesn't feel smooth. When is sit on it it sort of drops to sag and then it's smooth. It feels like it sticks at the top and then drops to the sag position. I can also hear it then. Is this normal?

 

[Eckythump]

No, it should transition smoothly.
Maybe the negative spring didn’t get equalised when the shock was pressured up.

 

[Danijel]

No, it should transition smoothly.
Maybe the negative spring didn’t get equalised when the shock was pressured up.

Thanks for the quick response! I have tried equalizing the chambers by feel and not every 50 psi because i don't have a gauge on my tiny pump. Could be every 25 or 75 psi. I have no clue but i don't thinks that being excact is so important.

But it's good to know that it is supposed to be smooth. Now i can start doing some research to figure it out. I think we have the same bike. 2018 Jam2 Factory.

 

[Gary]

because i don't have a gauge on my tiny pump. Could be every 25 or 75 psi. I have no clue but i don't thinks that being excact is so important.

Get a suitable shock pump

 

[Keisari66]

Hmm my 4300km Focus Jam2’s E8000 is doing this... normal lateral play or not? Got 7 days of warranty left.

Edit: Here’s another video

 

[Gary]

Hand to tell from the video but that looks a lot more lateral play than normal.
does it have any angular play?
does it creak?
what were you doing to show the play? (pushing/pulling against non-drive side crank?)

Either way get it back to the shop ASAP (or contact wherever you bought it)

Shimano's official line is "a little lateral play is normal"
That doesn't mean you should be fobbed off if the "little" has become "a lot"
If play has increased. Generally it is because something has worn/failed/loosened.

 

[njn]

normal lateral play or not

That play looks excessive and likely out of spec for a motor under warranty. Unfortunately, that may be normal for high mileage motors.

 

[iXi]

Mine has the lateral play and the spring back feeling. It's also got the in and out play and the clicking sound when force is put through the pedals. Currently awaiting replacement motor. 6-8 weeks lbs has said as shimano said none in the country.

 

[Keisari66]

Hand to tell from the video but that looks a lot more lateral play than normal.
does it have any angular play?
does it creak?
what were you doing to show the play? (pushing/pulling against non-drive side crank?)

Either way get it back to the shop ASAP (or contact wherever you bought it)

Shimano's official line is "a little lateral play is normal"
That doesn't mean you should be fobbed off if the "little" has become "a lot"
If play has increased. Generally it is because something has worn/failed/loosened.

Some very minor angular play that is hard to tell and the bike slightly creaks/clicks when pedaling hard. Checked all suspension bearings and serviced my pedals and it still does the clicking time to time. I was pushing the non-drive side crank against the frame.

Ah well guess I’ll be in touch with the lbs

 

[Gary]

At least one bearing's on it's way out then so it's new motor time
Get it in the shop ASAP

 

[Beaverbarry]

Just to add to this I have an e8000 with 769km on it and it has zero play in any direction , canyon spectral ON 9 2019

 

[Keisari66]

Mine’s going to the shop on Tuesday.

 

[Keisari66]

I took the chain off today and if I put my pedals in 12 and 6 o-clock positions and grab the one in 12-o-clock and gently push and pull by the pedal by two fingers there’s an audible clunk and major play. If I get a new engine might swap my focus for a decoy when it’s available ;D

 

[Keisari66]

Shimano has replied the play is within spec (max 2mm) and is normal.

 

[Peaky Rider]

Are the bottom bracket bearings a serviceable item ie. you have to change them regularly as with a conventional bike, or are they manufactured to last the life of the motor?

 

[Eckythump]

The official line is to ride it till there is an issue then take it in.
Mine is 2 years old now and coming out of warranty. I asked about the motor being serviced etc when it was having its battery replaced and was told they wont do anything until it fails...

 

[Rallysaloon]

Are the bottom bracket bearings a serviceable item ie. you have to change them regularly as with a conventional bike, or are they manufactured to last the life of the motor?

Nothing on the motor is serviceable if you talk to Shimano, however, if it's just bearings on the bottom bracket worn, they can be changed. I think they will last longer than conventional BB bearings as the seals are much better quality. I've got a motor in bits right now.

 

[drjarvis2003]

Nothing on the motor is serviceable if you talk to Shimano, however, if it's just bearings on the bottom bracket worn, they can be changed. I think they will last longer than conventional BB bearings as the seals are much better quality. I've got a motor in bits right now.

View attachment 13616

I have been wanting to pull a shimano motor apart for ages, but they wouldnt let me keep the shagged old motor when i got a new one. Why did you have to take this one apart?

 

[Eckythump]

If mine went once out of warranty I’d definitely have a crack myself before sending it away.
Be cool if you posted the bearing sizes for future reference.
Also wondered if it would be worth opening it up to top up the grease to try & quiet things down a bit but it looks like there is plenty there in your photos.

 

[S D]

Hopefully it won't be long before someone starts advertising motor bearing replacement as a shop service.
Bike shops are going to have to up their knowledge of electrical bike parts and repair skills in order to be able to compete.
Just my thoughts

 

[Max-E]

Been following this topic with interest.

I know forums are the places where people (generally) only ever report issues - it does come over though from reading enough topics on here that eBikes with Shimano or Brose motors given time (anything from a few months to a few years) pretty much everyone is going to need a new motor (and regularly, not just once).

Just what happens after the two year warranty is up on all these eBikes??

 

[Rallysaloon]

I have been wanting to pull a shimano motor apart for ages, but they wouldnt let me keep the shagged old motor when i got a new one. Why did you have to take this one apart?

I stripped this motor specifically to get bearing and seal sizes so I can fix them or supply bearings for folk to do them for themselves. Most people take things like this back for shops to do but I'm not like that plus it's taking weeks to get repairs and replacement motors done and it's only going to get worse in my opinion. I'm not going to say it's an easy job to change the bearings because it's not. There's a lot of tiny wires inside so I'm making a jig to hold the casings steady so I don't break them.

 

[Rallysaloon]

Been following this topic with interest.

I know forums are the places where people (generally) only ever report issues - it does come over though from reading enough topics on here that eBikes with Shimano or Brose motors given time (anything from a few months to a few years) pretty much everyone is going to need a new motor (and regularly, not just once).

Just what happens after the two year warranty is up on all these eBikes??

"Just what happens after the two year warranty is up on all these eBikes??"
Hopefully there will be a lot of work for me.

 

[Rallysaloon]

If mine went once out of warranty I’d definitely have a crack myself before sending it away.
Be cool if you posted the bearing sizes for future reference.
Also wondered if it would be worth opening it up to top up the grease to try & quiet things down a bit but it looks like there is plenty there in your photos.

I don't think adding more grease will quiet it down much, depends what's worn if it's noisy.
You'd have to be careful what type of grease you used as well. There's two sorts in there and some greases will weaken the nylon gears. I'm getting the grease spec. sorted so I should be able to let you know what to use.

 

[Eckythump]

You will know after taking it apart, but I understand there is a sprag clutch in there. If it is anything like my Onyx hub you cannot use anything with 'dry' lubricants (PTFE, moly, etc) in the lubes as they can allow the clutch to slip. They only endorse Kluber Isoflex LDS 18 special.

If you are planning to turn this into a venture I can understand you wishing to be tight lipped. All the best and I hope it goes well.

 

[Jamsxr]

Been following this topic with interest.

I know forums are the places where people (generally) only ever report issues - it does come over though from reading enough topics on here that eBikes with Shimano or Brose motors given time (anything from a few months to a few years) pretty much everyone is going to need a new motor (and regularly, not just once).

Just what happens after the two year warranty is up on all these eBikes??

Just think of it as a premium BB

A few pages on a dedicated eBike forum doesn’t suggest it’s a massively widespread problem.

 

[Rallysaloon]

You will know after taking it apart, but I understand there is a sprag clutch in there. If it is anything like my Onyx hub you cannot use anything with 'dry' lubricants (PTFE, moly, etc) in the lubes as they can allow the clutch to slip. They only endorse Kluber Isoflex LDS 18 special.

If you are planning to turn this into a venture I can understand you wishing to be tight lipped. All the best and I hope it goes well.

Yes there's a tapered sprag clutch on the main bottom bracket shaft (under the narrow green circuit board you can see in my photo). I've passed some grease onto a supplier I use in my job to see what I need. It looks expensive stuff whatever it is. I'm not sure if I have the time to set it up as a venture. I race enduro KTM's, do up road motorbikes, race and ride the E bike and look after all my mates E bikes as well. Oh, and supply Merida bash guards that I make in my limited spare time. I may just let folk know what bearings they need to do it themselves.