Help me decide: Forbidden Druid E vs. Orbea Wild

[M0ritz93]

Hey yall,
I need again some Advice and / or opionions.

I need help in deciding on my new E-MTB. It is to be a trail / all mountain bike. As versatile as possible. Beginner / Intermediate Driver. Had a lot of bikes, mostly gravel, allroad, but not a real MTB / EMTB.

• Height 170 cm, rather short legs (inner leg length ~74cm)
• Weight 70 kg
• Budget is secondary since it will be my reward for finishing my studies this year and I wanted a nice EMTB for a really long time. But was never confident enough to pull the trigger. (But still the cheaper the better so we talkin 6-11 k €)

Purpose:

• 40% tours with friends / Relaxed everyday driving / Forest exploration
• 40% Single Trails / Forest exploration
• 20% Bike Park

I have ridden a lot of testbikes and read a lot of reviews etc.

• Specialiced Turbo Levo 4
• Specialiced Turbo Levo R
• Santa Cruz Vala
• Orbea Wild
• Orbea Ryse
• Amflow PX Carbon Pro
• Forbidden Druid E
• Mondraker Zendit

I narrowed it down to the new avinox system or a Bosch Gen5, because of weight, looks, drive feel and I like new tech. I Already have an Canondale Synapse Neo Alroad (Bosch SX)

So I am deciding right now between:

• Forbidden Druid E Tier 2 (800wh) ~10.499 €, available at my LBS.
• Orbea Wild M10 ~ 7k
• Orbea Wild with Aniox ?! Lets see what tomorrow brings but i think the Availability will not be good.

I am very torn between the bikes and dont know what to get... Everyday feels like I am in favor for a different one.

The Orbea was recommended. Although the Orbea is on Paper an Enduro I only heard great things. And it seems also to be a good Allrounder, although i know it was not designed for touring. Considering it since i could save some money and waive some fancy new tech i might not need but would be a nice to have.

The Forbidden favours a unique design, great handling and confident boost at high speeds as well as the established brand.
The Cons are the high price though (only regular Charger not the 12A Fast Charger -.-).

I think i wont make a bad choice with either bike but I would really appreciate a few perspectives from you guys. What are your opinions? What would you get and why?

Thx in advance!

 

[Suns_PSD]

Buy whatever you want. We're all opinionated assholes and not much will translate.
Still, I'll throw my jerky response out there.
If I weighed 70kgs I'd one, buy some steroids but secondly buy a Trek with the TQ60 personally. And since you state that you spend 80% of your time riding boring sh*t yet 20% getting properly rowdy at the park, the fact that the Treks can be converted from a trail bike to a serious park bike with minor changes, would seem to make it a good fit.
GL

 

[Str1fe]

In my opinion, the orbea is not the best choice for a beginner. It really needs to be pushed hard and ridden aggressively to shine. For your type of riding, it's a bit overkill. The forbidden is easier to ride than the Orbea.

That said, if you can afford one of them, just go for it. In my area, for example, a lot of guys buy 170mm enduro e-bikes and probably use only 20% of their bike's potential. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as long as people are having fun.

If you had come here asking which bike would be best to help you progress as a rider, I would have given a different answer.

Just pick a bike that you genuinely like and find beautiful something that makes you want to get out and ride.

For you, the Forbidden or the Vala would be my picks.

Like @Suns_PSD said, the trek fuel+ LX is an outstanding bike and pretty easy to ride, but I don't think you're looking for a mid power ebike.

 

[AirKuhl]

Druid seems to be a great all-around bike.

Don't underestimate the value of buying from your LBS especially if any issues pop up. Support them and they will support you.

 

[Plummet]

Hmmm.... Those are two different steeds and the demo list of bikes you have ridden some are probably even more suited to your use case.

What didn't you like about the other bikes to take then off the list?

 

[M0ritz93]

Hmmm.... Those are two different steeds and the demo list of bikes you have ridden some are probably even more suited to your use case.

What didn't you like about the other bikes to take then off the list?

Yes I understand your point.

The Amflow PX would be a sweet pick but I do not really like the Geo compared to the others and even for the M size I would need to change the dropper post.

Levos are nice but very chunky/bulky and not very appealing to me optically.

The Santa Cruz Vala was in consideration but the Santa Cruz Brand Dealership in my area is very scarce. Zendit is looking sweet but is kinda same category as the wild. Close Dealer but very bad availability.

Propain Ekano 3 Trail would also be on the List but no way to test it upfront. So without a local Dealer I dont like spending that amount of money.

 

[Plummet]

Yes I understand your point.

The Amflow PX would be a sweet pick but I do not really like the Geo compared to the others and even for the M size I would need to change the dropper post.

Levos are nice but very chunky/bulky and not very appealing to me optically.

The Santa Cruz Vala was in consideration but the Santa Cruz Brand Dealership in my area is very scarce. Zendit is looking sweet but is kinda same category as the wild. Close Dealer but very bad availability.

Propain Ekano 3 Trail would also be on the List but no way to test it upfront. So without a local Dealer I dont like spending that amount of money.

Ok,

Well on paper the Druid is closer to your use case. But it has some wack Geo with long chainstays that extend at sag.
Its a polarizing ride than you may or may not enjoy.

So this become a high pivot v 4 bar link, and more v less travel and a bosch v avinox debate.

Personally if my only choice was those two bikes it would be the Wild because I chase the chunk and am not a lover of the forbidden geo. The back ends are far far too long for my style.

From a depreciation point of view anything non avinox depreciates very highly at the moment and avinox bikes are coveted and hold value better. If you plan on constantly upgrading year on year avinox bikes will hold a better resale.

Also from a group ride perspective, if you are riding with a lot of avinox guys then yourl have to put in more effort on the wild to keep up. Oh and avinox has a fast charger function that can charge at 1% per min. It will allow to charge up at lunch time and carry on riding in the arvo. Wildhas an integrated battery and bosch does not yet offer a faster charger so once the battery is flat thats your riding done for the day or for at least 4-5 hours before the bosch slow charger gets enough charge back into the bike.

On the Wild advantages, you will be able to smash bike park days with less fatigue. Don't buy into the high pivot sales pitch that less travel on a high pivot is equivalent to more on a standard design. This is emphatically not true. The 170mm wild will eat up chunk better than the 150/160 druid. 120nm 750w bosch is plenty freaken grunty and i see no reason for more power other than chasing avinox riders on group rides. The wild will feel more connected on the back end than the druid. High pivots are good at deadening square edges hits, but it comes with a vagueness and makes it harder to pull the front up. 170mm Wild will both manual better and smash chunk better than the shorter travel longer and extending chainstay of the druid.

Druid riders will claim superior cornering speed and argue playfullness. The less travel may very well make it feel more playful and tight on the easy to intermediate trails. It's certainly a feel thing. You either like that geo or you don't.

Really at the end of the day this is a first world problem choosing between two glorious bike..
Nobody on here can really make the choice for you. Take our experience with a grain of salt and go with your gut. What ever you choose will be awesome.

 

[ntm95]

Ok,

Well on paper the Druid is closer to your use case. But it has some wack Geo with long chainstays that extend at sag.
Its a polarizing ride than you may or may not enjoy.

By "wack", you mean "awesome" ?
Polarizing indeed, but I do suspect you've not actually tried an e-dread or e-druid. Geo is definitely their strong point. I'd not be surprised to see shorter reaches, higher stacks, and f/r ratios closer to 1.8 becoming standard fair for the majority of manufacturers. They're already moving that direction.
I have a suspicion your opinions on high pivots are heavily coloured by the claymore, which does have some whack geo (long reach, low stack, poor AS curve, poor f/r ratio). Or perhaps the older forbidden high pivots, which were too progressive of a linkage ratio.
Note that the forbidden e-bikes now have a more linear linkage ratio, less chainstay growth, and a more consistent anti rise curve. Those more linear aspects make them feel more predictable, there's no weirdness in corners or off lips, and you can manual them just as easy as any bike.

Having ridden both the e-druid and wild, I'd probably take the wild at the moment.
Performance is pretty comparable actually, even in the rough.
The bosch gen 5 is a proven commodity, and the wild is readily available, and deals can be had on it, unlike the druid. Both great bikes though.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink!


With that being said, I agree with @Suns_PSD to buy whatever you like!

The components you spec will play a big role in the performance of the bike as well.

I think if you stick with major brands for frames and components, you'll get a great bike.

I've owned 8 emtbs over the years and if I had to ride only one bike, I'd pick the Mondraker Zendit for my all-rounder.

I have yet to ride the new Wild or Crestline RS181.2 yet and am sure they will be awesome bikes.

At risk of imitating Captain Obvious, you should try and demo as many bikes as possible and choose components tailored to your riding criteria.

 

[ntm95]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink!


With that being said, I agree with @Suns_PSD to buy whatever you like!

The components you spec will play a big role in the performance of the bike as well.

I think if you stick with major brands for frames and components, you'll get a great bike.

I've owned 8 emtbs over the years and if I had to ride only one bike, I'd pick the Mondraker Zendit for my all-rounder.

I have yet to ride the new Wild or Crestline RS181.2 yet and am sure they will be awesome bikes.

At risk of imitating Captain Obvious, you should try and demo as many bikes as possible and choose components tailored to your riding criteria.

True, true, they're all pretty good nowadays.

 

[M0ritz93]

Ok,

Well on paper the Druid is closer to your use case. But it has some wack Geo with long chainstays that extend at sag.
Its a polarizing ride than you may or may not enjoy.

So this become a high pivot v 4 bar link, and more v less travel and a bosch v avinox debate.

Personally if my only choice was those two bikes it would be the Wild because I chase the chunk and am not a lover of the forbidden geo. The back ends are far far too long for my style.

From a depreciation point of view anything non avinox depreciates very highly at the moment and avinox bikes are coveted and hold value better. If you plan on constantly upgrading year on year avinox bikes will hold a better resale.

Also from a group ride perspective, if you are riding with a lot of avinox guys then yourl have to put in more effort on the wild to keep up. Oh and avinox has a fast charger function that can charge at 1% per min. It will allow to charge up at lunch time and carry on riding in the arvo. Wildhas an integrated battery and bosch does not yet offer a faster charger so once the battery is flat thats your riding done for the day or for at least 4-5 hours before the bosch slow charger gets enough charge back into the bike.

On the Wild advantages, you will be able to smash bike park days with less fatigue. Don't buy into the high pivot sales pitch that less travel on a high pivot is equivalent to more on a standard design. This is emphatically not true. The 170mm wild will eat up chunk better than the 150/160 druid. 120nm 750w bosch is plenty freaken grunty and i see no reason for more power other than chasing avinox riders on group rides. The wild will feel more connected on the back end than the druid. High pivots are good at deadening square edges hits, but it comes with a vagueness and makes it harder to pull the front up. 170mm Wild will both manual better and smash chunk better than the shorter travel longer and extending chainstay of the druid.

Druid riders will claim superior cornering speed and argue playfullness. The less travel may very well make it feel more playful and tight on the easy to intermediate trails. It's certainly a feel thing. You either like that geo or you don't.

Really at the end of the day this is a first world problem choosing between two glorious bike..
Nobody on here can really make the choice for you. Take our experience with a grain of salt and go with your gut. What ever you choose will be awesome.

Thank you very much for that effort and input ! Highly appreciated!

That thoughts are why I made the post. They are all great bikes and generally is it very hard to find a bike that sucks.

But since I am searching and testing few bikes for a few month now I am kinda in an analyzing paralysis.

Just need a few nudges to help me for the direction.

 

[M0ritz93]

By "wack", you mean "awesome" ?
Polarizing indeed, but I do suspect you've not actually tried an e-dread or e-druid. Geo is definitely their strong point. I'd not be surprised to see shorter reaches, higher stacks, and f/r ratios closer to 1.8 becoming standard fair for the majority of manufacturers. They're already moving that direction.
I have a suspicion your opinions on high pivots are heavily coloured by the claymore, which does have some whack geo (long reach, low stack, poor AS curve, poor f/r ratio). Or perhaps the older forbidden high pivots, which were too progressive of a linkage ratio.
Note that the forbidden e-bikes now have a more linear linkage ratio, less chainstay growth, and a more consistent anti rise curve. Those more linear aspects make them feel more predictable, there's no weirdness in corners or off lips, and you can manual them just as easy as any bike.

Having ridden both the e-druid and wild, I'd probably take the wild at the moment.
Performance is pretty comparable actually, even in the rough.
The bosch gen 5 is a proven commodity, and the wild is readily available, and deals can be had on it, unlike the druid. Both great bikes though.

Also very interesting pov! Thank you.
The E Druid has a terrible availability and there is only one left at my local store (luckily my size). But component wise is it overkill and would be better with Lower specs, although it looks sick. Tomorrow I will ride a wild again and check some local sales. Maybe there is a good deal. And hopefully there will also be some news on the new wild models and I can make my decision.

Whatever I choose they are all great bikes.

 

[Plummet]

By "wack", you mean "awesome" ?
Polarizing indeed, but I do suspect you've not actually tried an e-dread or e-druid. Geo is definitely their strong point. I'd not be surprised to see shorter reaches, higher stacks, and f/r ratios closer to 1.8 becoming standard fair for the majority of manufacturers. They're already moving that direction.
I have a suspicion your opinions on high pivots are heavily coloured by the claymore, which does have some whack geo (long reach, low stack, poor AS curve, poor f/r ratio). Or perhaps the older forbidden high pivots, which were too progressive of a linkage ratio.
Note that the forbidden e-bikes now have a more linear linkage ratio, less chainstay growth, and a more consistent anti rise curve. Those more linear aspects make them feel more predictable, there's no weirdness in corners or off lips, and you can manual them just as easy as any bike.

Having ridden both the e-druid and wild, I'd probably take the wild at the moment.
Performance is pretty comparable actually, even in the rough.
The bosch gen 5 is a proven commodity, and the wild is readily available, and deals can be had on it, unlike the druid. Both great bikes though.

I also have a mid pivot trek session and my boy had a Norco range for a while. Recall my claymore is size medium with a good F/r ratio as is my session. The claymore at sag fits right into my sweet spot of ideal f/r. In the perfect world i've have a 5mm longer reach on the claymore.

You are 100% correct, i haven't ridden either druid/dred. I did have high stack, short reach, long chainstay on the voima and it tho it charged high speed chunk and climbed well it wasnt for me. I know its not high pivot and a different suspension system. But in the configuration i had wasnt far off the starting point of forbidens before the chainstay extends. Its just not me, and that's ok.

Yeah wack geo is probably an unfair term. Unconventional geo is the better description.
I'm not saying its bad. I'm just saying its something that doesn't suit every rider.


If we look at the world cup dh's there's guys (and girls) running high stack, long chainstay, even those weird as reverse stems and the remaining crew on more traditional geo. No one suspension type or geo type shines through as dudes (and dudettes) are blazing equally as good. It appears humans can adapt and make a variety of systems work. It also suggest that the system its self is less critical and more a preference and feel scenario than actually supplying significant advantage.

 

[BretCro]

A recent review of Forbidden in this video....https://youtu.be/X-DyBS5msPs?si=05-9eyvMrJyaYnRI
A 1yr old review of Orbea by the same guys...

 

[BretCro]

 

[ntm95]

I also have a mid pivot trek session and my boy had a Norco range for a while. Recall my claymore is size medium with a good F/r ratio as is my session. The claymore at sag fits right into my sweet spot of ideal f/r. In the perfect world i've have a 5mm longer reach on the claymore.

You are 100% correct, i haven't ridden either druid/dred. I did have high stack, short reach, long chainstay on the voima and it tho it charged high speed chunk and climbed well it wasnt for me. I know its not high pivot and a different suspension system. But in the configuration i had wasnt far off the starting point of forbidens before the chainstay extends. Its just not me, and that's ok.

Yeah wack geo is probably an unfair term. Unconventional geo is the better description.
I'm not saying its bad. I'm just saying its something that doesn't suit every rider.


If we look at the world cup dh's there's guys (and girls) running high stack, long chainstay, even those weird as reverse stems and the remaining crew on more traditional geo. No one suspension type or geo type shines through as dudes (and dudettes) are blazing equally as good. It appears humans can adapt and make a variety of systems work. It also suggest that the system its self is less critical and more a preference and feel scenario than actually supplying significant advantage.

I'm just saying, try it out before you knock it.

The voima in a k1 has a decent f/r ratio, but the reach to stack relationship was still wrong as it pulls you forward and down. Which somewhat negates the benefits of the better f/r ratio, so I can see the issues there, it would be a point it straight and hold on kind of bike.

What I was getting at with the claymore was the longer reach and low stack tends to exaggerate it's "high pivot" ness, as it wasn't the greatest for manuals and such. The range is pretty famous for being the most high pivot feeling high pivot around. The e-forbiddens really don't feel like that, they feel like a very good typical four bar, that's a bit better at holding speed.

 

[ntm95]

A recent review of Forbidden in this video....https://youtu.be/X-DyBS5msPs?si=05-9eyvMrJyaYnRI
A 1yr old review of Orbea by the same guys...

That's quite an old video with the m1 avinox.
Nick's a bit of an anomaly in terms of where he tests stuff (pnw steeps), so don't forget to factor that in.

 

[BretCro]

Coincidentally Hot off the presses today, a Loam Wolf review of the Orbea Wild M2S...

 

[BretCro]

And another one today...must have been some kind of Orbea press day....

 

[M0ritz93]

Coincidentally Hot off the presses today, a Loam Wolf review of the Orbea Wild M2S...

That’s what I have been waiting for.

Was at my local bike shop to test the cx5 m10 in M again and luckily he got an actual new avinox bike from Orbea the LT M20 in my Size. Suuuuper smooth. So I could test ride it before the official launch. We talked a lot about the bike so I said I sleep about it but will be buying it tomorrow!

 

[ntm95]

Coincidentally Hot off the presses today, a Loam Wolf review of the Orbea Wild M2S...

That's not a review, the dissected series is a paid (informative) advertisement by orbea.

 

[Plummet]

I'm just saying, try it out before you knock it.

The voima in a k1 has a decent f/r ratio, but the reach to stack relationship was still wrong as it pulls you forward and down. Which somewhat negates the benefits of the better f/r ratio, so I can see the issues there, it would be a point it straight and hold on kind of bike.

What I was getting at with the claymore was the longer reach and low stack tends to exaggerate it's "high pivot" ness, as it wasn't the greatest for manuals and such. The range is pretty famous for being the most high pivot feeling high pivot around. The e-forbiddens really don't feel like that, they feel like a very good typical four bar, that's a bit better at holding speed.

In fairness i'm not knocking it. I'm just saying the geo is polarizing. I know what i like and what i don't like after 30 years of riding mtb's aggressively. The Dred e in the size i would choose S3 to get the reach i want of 460 has and enormous rear center of 463 before sag. It will be 475 with sag. There is zero doubt in my mind that i would absolutely hate that set up. The pole at 455 was bad enough.

My favored geo in 465 reach 445 chainstay non hp. That is my happy place and the best combo for me for my riding style and terrain.
My cresty is 455 and thats a tad shot. Noting that I ran a mulleted voima, which dropped the back lower, kicked the reach back to around 445, So it wasn't forward and low like what you state. It was close on to dred S2 geo. With the rear center a little bit shorter than a sagged s2 dred. That reach was just too short for me, I got a sore back on longer rides. At 5'11 i really should be on longer bikes.

If I come across one to have a blast on I will. But it just aint the bike for me. I've done my hp phase. Still got two, have fun on them. But i prefer the traditional suspension designs with less rearward movement. The traditional designs feel more connected to me. that moving rear end takes away from the feel. I prefer the cresty vpp feel, I've had nomad, blur, v10, bronson, intense 951 dh bike, My wife and boy have a intense tracers.... and ibis dw for a while and also a bunch of 4 bars, the last one being those being the slayer. I've just worked out what i like.

 

[ntm95]

In fairness i'm not knocking it. I'm just saying the geo is polarizing. I know what i like and what i don't like after 30 years of riding mtb's aggressively. The Dred e in the size i would choose S3 to get the reach i want of 460 has and enormous rear center of 463 before sag. It will be 475 with sag. There is zero doubt in my mind that i would absolutely hate that set up. The pole at 455 was bad enough.

My favored geo in 465 reach 445 chainstay non hp. That is my happy place and the best combo for me for my riding style and terrain.
My cresty is 455 and thats a tad shot. Noting that I ran a mulleted voima, which dropped the back lower, kicked the reach back to around 445, So it wasn't forward and low like what you state. It was close on to dred S2 geo. With the rear center a little bit shorter than a sagged s2 dred. That reach was just too short for me, I got a sore back on longer rides. At 5'11 i really should be on longer bikes.

If I come across one to have a blast on I will. But it just aint the bike for me. I've done my hp phase. Still got two, have fun on them. But i prefer the traditional suspension designs with less rearward movement. The traditional designs feel more connected to me. that moving rear end takes away from the feel. I prefer the cresty vpp feel, I've had nomad, blur, v10, bronson, intense 951 dh bike, My wife and boy have a intense tracers.... and ibis dw for a while and also a bunch of 4 bars, the last one being those being the slayer. I've just worked out what i like.

For sure, you've adopted a riding style/bias, and are sticking to it. And you're making assumptions based on that.
But if you get the chance, try an s3 e-forbidden. I think you'll be surprised by the agility of what should otherwise feel like a long wheelbase plow bike, but does not.

 

[Plummet]

For sure, you've adopted a riding style/bias, and are sticking to it. And you're making assumptions based on that.
But if you get the chance, try an s3 e-forbidden. I think you'll be surprised by the agility of what should otherwise feel like a long wheelbase plow bike, but does not.

Yeah, but also physics doesn't change. There is no secret sauce out there making one bike with of magical performance over another with similar dimensions. I have ridden and tested longer chainstay bikes coupled with shorter reach and higher stack and dont like them. Its not my style. A different type of longer chainstay bike wont magically be all of a sudden not like a long chainstay bike......its physics.

So part of experience is understanding what you like and dont like.

 

[ntm95]

Yeah, but also physics doesn't change. There is no secret sauce out there making one bike with of magical performance over another with similar dimensions. I have ridden and tested longer chainstay bikes coupled with shorter reach and higher stack and dont like them. Its not my style. A different type of longer chainstay bike wont magically be all of a sudden not like a long chainstay bike......its physics.

So part of experience is understanding what you like and dont like.

We are beating a dead horse here at this point, but I don't believe you have ridden and tested longer chainstay bikes coupled with shorter reach and higher stack.
You use the voima as a prime example, the k2 has a poor f/r ratio, and the k1 has a low stack.
Again, give one a go in real life before making up your mind.
I've ridden a lot of the same stuff you have.