Velduro M1 Owners: Anyone else chasing an upgrade?

[Carlosgalma]

Lets say you can get a M2s in 4-5 months time. You get the motor and install it in the bike. Then 4 months later Avinox announce the M3 are you going to chase them again for a new motor?

As Plummet said, its an endless cycle.

I don't really think that's an realistic time table for a new motor, I appreciate your concerns, keep doing your thing and I will do mine.

Go ride your bike, you'll benefit from it, I'll keep your mind on the trail and out of other people's business.

 

[JP-NZ]

I don't really think that's an realistic time table for a new motor.

I think you'll be surprised and then probably annoyed. But yes good luck on the hunt for an M2

 

[Plummet]

It was pretty much known to wait until the 9th April since the beginning of this year.
I was offered a 'preproduction' bike last year, but turned it down on the basis something better was rumoured to be coming.
The uk distributor was a bit over enthusiastic and perhaps leaked more information than they should have in the velduro thread.
It certainly feels that nz customers have been stiffed over though. Hopefully you will get a satisfactory resolution.

Yeah, it wasn't a surprise a new motor was on the way even halfway through last year. The guys that jumped on the Velduro train early did so knowing there was potentially a new motor coming out. But they didn't want to wait. I don't think the nz owners were stiffed. Bikes were shipped in december. Its now 6 months later. That's 6 months of awesome riding and the bikes are still awesome.

These guys that get their knickers in a twist because they decided to buy a bike early and didn't wait to the well advertised motor release need to take some personal responsibility for their decision making and stop getting angry at the manufacturer who is just doing their job of selling stock until it runs out and then releasing new stock when its available.

If you bought a car and 5 month later a new one came out with a better motor it in would expect the car company to replace your motor? no. What about a cell phone or computer? Do you ride up samsung and get mad at them because the S26 is out now and they wont retrofit the s26 internals into your s25?

No ya dont....

Buy when you buy own the responsibility of your decisions.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It certainly hasn't been a great experience. Pay deposit, wait 6 months, then another month, then another month, oh, and then another month because your bike size is XL...
Then 3 weeks after collecting the Rouge losing half its value because the new ones shipped with the M2.
I appreciate tech changes quickly, but what really rips my nightie is there is no pathway to upgrade! "Take my money!"
If I had a gen 4 levo, my LBS would take my money and upgrade with the s-works motor, if I had a gen 5 Bosch, again, my LBS would take my money and upgrade to the Bosch race motor.
Disappointed Velduro and Avinox are pointing the finger at each other.
Velduro not taking a long term view in this IMO.
My next bike won't be a Velduro and in my own pathetic protest I have blacked out my bike logo.

How much of the value of the M1 bike do you think you'd lose, if you sold it upon receipt of a replacement Rogue with an M2s? It's still an in demand, hard to get frame.

Because a $1.5K-2.5K depreciation hit very well might be less than the cost of a replacement motor.

If you time it just right, you shoud be able to get it all done 1-2 weeks before the fix for the M2s rattle is released on all future production runs.

Seriously, I don't think that the M2s is appreciably better than the M1. It still rattles, just has to get broken in first. It's had an efficiency improvement and even more excessive power, and one admittedly very cool battery size option that I don't think you can get in a Rogue anyways. Like what are you hoping to gain in actual riding experience with the change?

 

[GoneRogue]

How much of the value of the M1 bike do you think you'd lose, if you sold it upon receipt of a replacement Rogue with an M2s? It's still an in demand, hard to get frame.

Because a $1.5K-2.5K depreciation hit very well might be less than the cost of a replacement motor.

If you time it just right, you shoud be able to get it all done 1-2 weeks before the fix for the M2s rattle is released on all future production runs.

Seriously, I don't think that the M2s is appreciably better than the M1. It still rattles, just has to get broken in first. It's had an efficiency improvement and even more excessive power, and one admittedly very cool battery size option that I don't think you can get in a Rogue anyways. Like what are you hoping to gain in actual riding experience with the change?

I sold my m1 rogue frame after getting injured. Ended up losing 3.5k aud but figured id be spending about 3k to upgrade to m2s if it ever became available.
One thing I noticed quickly on marketplace, everyone wants the new m2s so value of m1 bikes dropped rapidly.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I sold my m1 rogue frame after getting injured. Ended up losing 3.5k aud but figured id be spending about 3k to upgrade to m2s if it ever became available.
One thing I noticed quickly on marketplace, everyone wants the new m2s so value of m1 bikes dropped rapidly.

Sorry you got hurt. On the Rogue? HOw long are you out for?

I did my knee second ride out on my Wild. The knee was already damaged and operated on one time before. Even though it's going to mostly shut down my riding for the better part of a year but I just decided to keep the bike anyways. I still pedal everyday but it's just doing lame stuff.

 

[GoneRogue]

Sorry you got hurt. On the Rogue? HOw long are you out for?

I did my knee second ride out on my Wild. The knee was already damaged and operated on one time before. Even though it's going to mostly shut effect my riding for the better part of a year but I just decided to keep the bike anyways. I still pedal everyday but it's just doing lame stuff.

yeah 4th ride on the rogue messed up my shoulder pretty good. That was end the of February and I hope to back riding in by the end of June.
The Avinox marketing machine got its claws into me and here we are.

 

[doochenozzle]

Seeing the same Rogue frame start shipping with the M2S system, in some cases only weeks after purchase for recent buyers, with no upgrade pathway for M1 owners, has been pretty hard to swallow.

I’ve been engaging with Velduro for weeks asking for one thing only: access to the M2S system at a fair price. The frame hasn’t changed and these systems are already being fitted to current builds.

Avinox confirmed in writing that upgrade pathways sit with the bike brand and that supply channels and contacts are already in place. Velduro has since said Avinox advised that M2S systems would not be made available to existing Velduro customers, which seems difficult to reconcile given the same frame is already shipping with the M2S system.

What also concerns me is long-term serviceability. If Avinox are refusing to allow Velduro to stock or supply components to existing customers, where does that leave owners once these bikes are out of warranty?

Even with a fair priced upgrade pathway, early buyers would still end up paying a premium, but far less than being forced to sell and rebuy the same frame with the M2S system.

Who else feels the same and would be willing to pay a fair price rather than sell and rebuy the same frame?

Velduros recently landed in my small town and with the M1 motor. Dealer and customers were not stoked. I’d say it’s incredibly irresponsible of Velduro to have sold and shipped M1 equipped bikes so close to the launch of the M2.

 

[Plummet]

yeah 4th ride on the rogue messed up my shoulder pretty good. That was end the of February and I hope to back riding in by the end of June.
The Avinox marketing machine got its claws into me and here we are.

That sucks. Full over the bars to shoulder reconstruction?

Why not just keep the bike and ride it when you get back on the horse?

 

[GoneRogue]

That sucks. Full over the bars to shoulder reconstruction?

Why not just keep the bike and ride it when you get back on the horse?

Was a high speed front wash out, happened so fast I couldn’t even brace, can only assume there was a stick or rock I didn’t see and caused a deflection.
Snapped collarbone, torn rotator cuff, couple of ribs and concussion.
Keeping the bike was obviously the smart decision however having a new bike with old gen motor was bugging me.
I would have upgraded eventually anyway so just thought id go early before the influx of Avinox bikes are available.

 

[Plummet]

Was a high speed front wash out, happened so fast I couldn’t even brace, can only assume there was a stick or rock I didn’t see and caused a deflection.
Snapped collarbone, torn rotator cuff, couple of ribs and concussion.
Keeping the bike was obviously the smart decision however having a new bike with old gen motor was bugging me.
I would have upgraded eventually anyway so just thought id go early before the influx of Avinox bikes are available.

Fair enough. I hope you have a full recovery and get back on the bike back to full pace.

PS I fully recommend learning break falling and ninja rolling techniques. I am 55 with zero broken collar bones or shoulder reconstructions. I'm still racing dh and hitting grade 6 track and the A lines on dh track and am pretty much hitting silly stuff every ride. I put my lack of servere injury down to learning those break falling techniques when I did martial arts when I was younger.

 

[MotorDoper]

Yeah, it wasn't a surprise a new motor was on the way even halfway through last year. The guys that jumped on the Velduro train early did so knowing there was potentially a new motor coming out. But they didn't want to wait. I don't think the nz owners were stiffed. Bikes were shipped in december. Its now 6 months later. That's 6 months of awesome riding and the bikes are still awesome.

These guys that get their knickers in a twist because they decided to buy a bike early and didn't wait to the well advertised motor release need to take some personal responsibility for their decision making and stop getting angry at the manufacturer who is just doing their job of selling stock until it runs out and then releasing new stock when its available.

If you bought a car and 5 month later a new one came out with a better motor it in would expect the car company to replace your motor? no. What about a cell phone or computer? Do you ride up samsung and get mad at them because the S26 is out now and they wont retrofit the s26 internals into your s25?

No ya dont....

Buy when you buy own the responsibility of your decisions.

I think it’s important to keep this thread grounded in actual owner experience and reality.

As a Velduro owner, neither I nor the group I ride with were discussing or aware of a new motor release when we purchased. Clearly some people following forums and rumours suspected something was coming, but that’s very different from suggesting all customers knowingly bought into a ~3 month product cycle.

And the timeline also matters here. First customers received bikes in late December and the embargo lifted on 9 April. That’s roughly 3.5 months, not 6, with many owners receiving bikes even later in January, February and March.

For many of us this isn’t about wanting the latest shiny thing, it’s about the compressed depreciation impact. There is currently a bike shop advertising brand new M1 frames still in the box on Trade Me for $6000 NZD.

And the comments around companies not publicly marketing upcoming launches and products ahead of release don’t really align with reality either. Apple literally builds launch events around that model, and car brands regularly preview upcoming models and specs well before they reach customers.

 

[Brawwp]

I think it’s important to keep this thread grounded in actual owner experience and reality.

As a Velduro owner, neither I nor the group I ride with were discussing or aware of a new motor release when we purchased. Clearly some people following forums and rumours suspected something was coming, but that’s very different from suggesting all customers knowingly bought into a ~3 month product cycle.

And the timeline also matters here. First customers received bikes in late December and the embargo lifted on 9 April. That’s roughly 3.5 months, not 6, with many owners receiving bikes even later in January, February and March.

For many of us this isn’t about wanting the latest shiny thing, it’s about the compressed depreciation impact. There is currently a bike shop advertising brand new M1 frames still in the box on Trade Me for $6000 NZD.

And the comments around companies not publicly marketing upcoming launches and products ahead of release don’t really align with reality either. Apple literally builds launch events around that model, and car brands regularly preview upcoming models and specs well before they reach customers.

Ok so you’re velduro, you are sitting on X number of m1 motors delaying the release of your bike to make refinements to the frame for cat 5 rating for your customers and making sure everything is safe (that was the delay reason right?). I’m sure this whole process is a ton of work and you don’t have the pockets of a big company like specialized. Finally all good and ship out. Now new motor drops.

So just tell me what you guys are wanting to happen here? Like what would you do as the owner of a small bike company? You’re delivering the bike these customers ordered (although delayed but for good reason). Now you got a bunch of emails from guys demanding a M2s upgrade for a discount which literally you cannot get from avinox and hasn’t been approved for individual sale.

Do you understand why a lot of us don’t sympathize with you? The bike is good right? The m17s will be ready for you when you decide to get the next bike.

 

[whitymon]

I think it’s important to keep this thread grounded in actual owner experience and reality.

As a Velduro owner, neither I nor the group I ride with were discussing or aware of a new motor release when we purchased. Clearly some people following forums and rumours suspected something was coming, but that’s very different from suggesting all customers knowingly bought into a ~3 month product cycle.

And the timeline also matters here. First customers received bikes in late December and the embargo lifted on 9 April. That’s roughly 3.5 months, not 6, with many owners receiving bikes even later in January, February and March.

For many of us this isn’t about wanting the latest shiny thing, it’s about the compressed depreciation impact. There is currently a bike shop advertising brand new M1 frames still in the box on Trade Me for $6000 NZD.

And the comments around companies not publicly marketing upcoming launches and products ahead of release don’t really align with reality either. Apple literally builds launch events around that model, and car brands regularly preview upcoming models and specs well before they reach customers.

This is the real world honestly, you buy something it is outdated soon, could be weeks, month.

If you buy a bike and think day 1 that this is an investment and you care that much about residual value and resell, please don´t buy a bike, find a way to rent / lease one.

You buy a bike that do fit your needs and then you ride it until you do not want it anymore or break it. The M1 is good enough and better than tons of other bike motor out there.

No brand ever forces anyone to buy their product, they publish an offer you buy it or not. This is madness to think that bike brands try to scam people, they do not do great margin on motor if any.

And what would be your expectation if Avinox is releasing a new motor each year? The brand would have to discount you a new motor all along or a huge discount? Again unit are limited, you deserve nothing, brand would loose so much money they would die.

The only potential way to get a new M2 could be through warranty assuming it is not your fault, so this is also not nothing to envision right?

 

[action99]

I fully sympathize with the ones that got M1 and are not happy especially the ones that go a Feb/March delivery.

Me and my friend ordered a Velduro in October, in our case they quoted March delivery for Full Bikes, April for Frames. I opted for the Frame, my friend for the Full Bike. The bikes came exactly at the time that they said, no delays, but my friend got an M1 15 days before the announcement and I got an M2s 19 days after. He lost almost half of the value in a week. In my case it was pure luck.

At minimum they should have offered a discount. Not really a good start for creating a loyal customer base.

 

[whitymon]

Why could they offer a discount? Again you are completely misleading from envy/ideal.

How could they gave a discount as all they bought to ship and build a bike were brand new and full price for them?

M1 is still sold by Avinox, this is not a deprecated product by any means.

We all get that frustration could be a thing but again buying something 6 month in advance, you pass a contract, it is honored. By any means it is up to the customer to be careful, if I order something that far in time I have to be clever enough to understand that the market could have moved within that period.

And again blaming a little brand bike or any brand bike is wrong.

 

[action99]

Why could they offer a discount? Again you are completely misleading from envy/ideal.

How could they gave a discount as all they bought to ship and build a bike were brand new and full price for them?

M1 is still sold by Avinox, this is not a deprecated product by any means.

We all get that frustration could be a thing but again buying something 6 month in advance, you pass a contract, it is honored. By any means it is up to the customer to be careful, if I order something that far in time I have to be clever enough to understand that the market could have moved within that period.

And again blaming a little brand bike or any brand bike is wrong.

We will never agree and is ok to have different opinion.
As a business owner I know that If you want to build a loyal customer base what Velduro did is not good, the fact that there are very vocal not happy customer is the first sign that is not the best situation. Btw most other brands either discounted, some by quite much, the M1 bikes or did not deliver one until M2s was available. This is the correct way to operate.

I said this as happy Velduro M2s owner because I know, if I was not lucky, that I would be very pissed. I would have sold it for a loss, switch brand and be very vocal about.

 

[whitymon]

You miss the point I am referring too. Being yourself a little business owner is irrelevant to their situation.

By law you cannot sell under cost price right? And you have to pay your providers and employees.

Therefore you need to grasp that as they are very very little and the discount you think, even if it is not your case here, could deserve cannot be achieved? Maybe it can and it would be 50-100 euro? so even more of a joke to offer such thing.

Again most likely this is not something they can do at the moment without putting them into a difficult situation. People tend to forget that in the past 2 years tons of bike brand went bankrupt.

NB: make no mistake, I would be pissed too and not sure if I would keep the bike or sell it but at the same time as also a company owner I can see the reasons.

 

[xtraman122]

I think the root of all the heartache here is Velduro taking preorders so far in advance of the launch of the bike. People were ordering their bikes 8-9 months before they received them; that's an eternity in the bike world. 9 months ago relatively little was known about the M2/M2S and I don't think anyone would have been disappointed when the M2 came out had they been riding their M1 for that long already. The pre-order process helps these companies gauge market demand and lock in some sales, but allowing them so far ahead of release is almost guaranteed to lead to disappointment of some sort.

It was the M2 motor this time, but next time maybe it'll be some new 9-speed SRAM AXS transmission that takes the market by storm and becomes the thing everyone must have on their bikes, but because you pre-ordered 6 months ago and the manufacturer was already sitting on a pile of 250 GX AXS transmission sets, that's what you get on your bike. At least in that situation the groupset is something you can buy yourself and change, but you get the idea. The pre-order process on these bikes is a little crazy at this point with how early they're being taken, and it's not just bikes, car manufacturers are doing it now too, stringing people along for in some cases multiple years before release.

 

[MotorDoper]

Ok so you’re velduro, you are sitting on X number of m1 motors delaying the release of your bike to make refinements to the frame for cat 5 rating for your customers and making sure everything is safe (that was the delay reason right?). I’m sure this whole process is a ton of work and you don’t have the pockets of a big company like specialized. Finally all good and ship out. Now new motor drops.

So just tell me what you guys are wanting to happen here? Like what would you do as the owner of a small bike company? You’re delivering the bike these customers ordered (although delayed but for good reason). Now you got a bunch of emails from guys demanding a M2s upgrade for a discount which literally you cannot get from avinox and hasn’t been approved for individual sale.

Do you understand why a lot of us don’t sympathize with you? The bike is good right? The m17s will be ready for you when you decide to get the next bike.

As for the exact reasons they chose to release when they did, we can only speculate. Financial pressure and contractual obligations are possible factors, but there could equally be other considerations as well. That’s not really for me to speculate on.

What I don’t think is unreasonable though is assuming OEMs likely had awareness these bikes would be superseded within a relatively short timeframe by the time the first customer bikes started shipping.

As you mentioned yourself, even the CAT5 testing caused delays, and beyond that you still have product planning, frame development around revised battery systems, fatigue testing, validation, certification and production timelines. The 27+ brands that launched on 9 April didn’t suddenly start that process a few weeks beforehand.

I think I’ve already been pretty clear on commercially reasonable options they could explore that, depending on how they chose to structure and roll them out, don’t require them to lose money. I also don’t think I’ve seen anyone here asking for something for free.

And while I appreciate Velduro is a small business, I don’t think being a smaller company automatically excludes them from planning for something like this or handling customer retention appropriately.

I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for customers to question value retention after paying close to $9000 NZD for a frame, in some cases only weeks before the 9 April launch, and now seeing that same brand new M1 frame still in the box advertised on Trade Me for $6000 NZD.

That’s a pretty solid real-world data point around where the market now sees the value of these bikes, and naturally raises the question of where a second hand M1 sits only a few weeks later.

 

[MotorDoper]

I think the root of all the heartache here is Velduro taking preorders so far in advance of the launch of the bike. People were ordering their bikes 8-9 months before they received them; that's an eternity in the bike world. 9 months ago relatively little was known about the M2/M2S and I don't think anyone would have been disappointed when the M2 came out had they been riding their M1 for that long already. The pre-order process helps these companies gauge market demand and lock in some sales, but allowing them so far ahead of release is almost guaranteed to lead to disappointment of some sort.

It was the M2 motor this time, but next time maybe it'll be some new 9-speed SRAM AXS transmission that takes the market by storm and becomes the thing everyone must have on their bikes, but because you pre-ordered 6 months ago and the manufacturer was already sitting on a pile of 250 GX AXS transmission sets, that's what you get on your bike. At least in that situation the groupset is something you can buy yourself and change, but you get the idea. The pre-order process on these bikes is a little crazy at this point with how early they're being taken, and it's not just bikes, car manufacturers are doing it now too, stringing people along for in some cases multiple years before release.

That would make more sense if everyone affected had pre-ordered far in advance, but plenty of people didn’t. I didn’t, and neither did my mate who bought one only a couple of weeks before the 9 April launch. There were still customers purchasing these bikes normally without being tied into long preorder windows.

I think the thread has been pretty clear that the issue for most people isn’t really preorder timing, it’s the unusually short gap between customer deliveries and the platform being superseded, and the resulting impact on value retention.

 

[xtraman122]

That would make more sense if everyone affected had pre-ordered far in advance, but plenty of people didn’t. I didn’t, and neither did my mate who bought one only a couple of weeks before the 9 April launch. There were still customers purchasing these bikes normally without being tied into long preorder windows.

I think the thread has been pretty clear that the issue for most people isn’t really preorder timing, it’s the unusually short gap between customer deliveries and the platform being superseded, and the resulting impact on value retention.

Yeah, but everyone knew the new motor was coming by then, that was your own decision at that point.

It's no different for anyone that bought an iPhone 16 a few weeks before the iPhone 17 was announced. No, Apple hadn't technically announced the 17 was coming out but you'd have to be living under a rock to not know, it's not much different with the M2 release.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

That would make more sense if everyone affected had pre-ordered far in advance, but plenty of people didn’t. I didn’t, and neither did my mate who bought one only a couple of weeks before the 9 April launch. There were still customers purchasing these bikes normally without being tied into long preorder windows..

Well come on ... you bought it a few weeks before the 9th launch. Did you not do any research on the bike or motor system online beforehand? If not, that's a lesson learned. Really that's 100% on you and as others said, bikes are not investments. Maybe you'll learn this is the price of the Avinox system, with a short product cycle its going to destroy secondhand sales and value. Honestly its not just Avinox, as no real standardization exists for motor and batteries across manufacturers. eMTB deprecate at a rate WAY higher than traditional MTBs.

I can feel for those that pre-ordered early, at the time no one knew of the upcoming Avinox update. Through delays by Velduro, some may have received their bikes shortly before the launch of the M2/M2s.

 

[sethimus]

Well come on ... you bought it a few weeks before the 9th launch. Did you not do any research on the bike or motor system online beforehand? If not, that's a lesson learned. Really that's 100% on you and as others said, bikes are not investments. Maybe you'll learn this is the price of the Avinox system, with a short product cycle its going to destroy secondhand sales and value. Honestly its not just Avinox, as no real standardization exists for motor and batteries across manufacturers. eMTB deprecate at a rate WAY higher than traditional MTBs.

I can feel for those that pre-ordered early, at the time no one knew of the upcoming Avinox update. Through delays by Velduro, some may have received their bikes shortly before the launch of the M2/M2s.

you are a prime example of a typical bmw driver. read again what the guy you are quoting said, but much slower. maybe then you get what he said, because you clearly missed the point.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

you are a prime example of a typical bmw driver. read again what the guy you are quoting said, but much slower. maybe then you get what he said, because you clearly missed the point.

Maybe you should re-read the OP statement and my response... you sound like a typical internet asshole.

 

[sethimus]

you should have taken my advice