The answer is very simple, they’ve never owned/ridden one. They regurgitate the dumb stuff they read online to make themselves feel better about their bike instead of just being happy with what they own. That’s why.
Have Avinox given us a good thing (or not)?
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To be fair, I don’t think most people do think like that.
I’ve ridden an Avinox bike, a riding buddy has one, it’s an impressive bit of kit and I enjoyed my ride on it.
It’s a nuanced issue, depends where you are in the world, how you use an e-bike and not least what sort of regulatory trail access you enjoy (or not!).
If an unmodified bike is legal in whatever place you’re riding it then it’s legal, no arguments from me. I tend to agree with the comments that perhaps for now max power is plateauing though, as without a step change in battery tech bikes will just get heavier from here on in, all other things being equal, and I don’t think people want that.
in the UK we have a very negative press towards cyclists, we also have an upwards trend of bicycle vs, pedestrian accidents, A&E Dept's in London have already put out statements, most newspapers run articles against bike & e-bike use - of course WE can nuance between what is legal and what isn't, but the press and our eager public won't, they will just put us all in one bucket to vilify - if we get a remotely populist government we will have new laws which will likely be draconian and with zero consideration of the effects...
Will emtb-ers become the new skaters of the UK? lol. The no skateboarding signs never stopped anyone from skating that perfectly waxed ledge at midnight. Good luck catching 1500 watts if you can get away in 30mins before battery drained
So replying again based on the title of the thread and not heading off down the usual Rabbit Holes.
"Have Avinox given us a good thing"
They've given us a more compact energy dense motor.
We seem to have that in a pretty reliable package, I'm sure there's been failures, but it doesn't seem like anything we used to see in the good old days. Either way, this pushes the competition and can only lead to more reliable, lighter and more compact motors.
They've introduced several formats of battery which have enabled some visually interesting and attractive bike designs - ok, the removable ones aren't exactly prom queen material and as I think @Powerslider quoted earlier in the pivot thread - the present range extender solution is pig ugly.
With their supply options to OEM's they've given a lot of more boutique brands the chance to dive on board with some really cool new bikes. There's even some "reasonably" priced ones (reasonable using the usual bike world of rose tinted glasses pricing).
Yes, power numbers have increased - but if you're developing something in a tiny package and you have some cunning idea of how to re-arrange the coils so you can get more power and increased efficiency, that's natural progression.
On the power front, remember that previously everyone always just said their motor was 250w nominal. There are tests for this and the new Avinox motors still comply with that test, the difference is that Avinox/Amflow released the actual peak power numbers.
Don't forget that even a 2019 old school Brose 1.3 in a Specialized bike gave 840w when fully charged and no one was leaping up and down. The Haibike Flyon was 120nm torque all those years ago - ok, no one cared because it was Fugly and they had manufacturing issues with the frame (not just the way it looked) - but we're still in the same ballpark.
"Have Avinox given us a good thing"
They've given us a more compact energy dense motor.
We seem to have that in a pretty reliable package, I'm sure there's been failures, but it doesn't seem like anything we used to see in the good old days. Either way, this pushes the competition and can only lead to more reliable, lighter and more compact motors.
They've introduced several formats of battery which have enabled some visually interesting and attractive bike designs - ok, the removable ones aren't exactly prom queen material and as I think @Powerslider quoted earlier in the pivot thread - the present range extender solution is pig ugly.
With their supply options to OEM's they've given a lot of more boutique brands the chance to dive on board with some really cool new bikes. There's even some "reasonably" priced ones (reasonable using the usual bike world of rose tinted glasses pricing).
Yes, power numbers have increased - but if you're developing something in a tiny package and you have some cunning idea of how to re-arrange the coils so you can get more power and increased efficiency, that's natural progression.
On the power front, remember that previously everyone always just said their motor was 250w nominal. There are tests for this and the new Avinox motors still comply with that test, the difference is that Avinox/Amflow released the actual peak power numbers.
Don't forget that even a 2019 old school Brose 1.3 in a Specialized bike gave 840w when fully charged and no one was leaping up and down. The Haibike Flyon was 120nm torque all those years ago - ok, no one cared because it was Fugly and they had manufacturing issues with the frame (not just the way it looked) - but we're still in the same ballpark.
Loamranger
Active member
I ride a ebike with 35Nm and enjoy it. Is there something wrong with me?
Wojtek
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- Mar 13, 2026
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now that i see from other posts that the settings display for choosing speed have changed - one can pick between 25/32/45kmh - i hope it is not a mid-step towards next update that will grey out the options that are illegal in a given country.
And 130nm torque is fine. 1500W excessive but one doesn't have to use it. Worst is the max speed limit, with 25kmh it just becomes heavy bike that one has to pedal without assistance as it cuts off. Talking about EU. Increase the speed limit to 32 or 45kmh and limit W - that would be my pick.
And 130nm torque is fine. 1500W excessive but one doesn't have to use it. Worst is the max speed limit, with 25kmh it just becomes heavy bike that one has to pedal without assistance as it cuts off. Talking about EU. Increase the speed limit to 32 or 45kmh and limit W - that would be my pick.
No. The KSL is the dogs nads both in riding AND looks. Some of us are just lazy though and like a little more help going back up and are willing to sacrifice some finesse on the way down in exchange.
Look at that Back to the Future Avinox inspired downtube ! If only the Gen4 Levo had just shoved an Avinox 800wh battery in that and the Avinox motor tilted back slightly to package it all in .. wow ..
I loved my Kenevo andd Levo sl. The problem was not the bike it was all my buddies on full power bikes, I was just not able to keep up on the climbs and the range was very limiting if I ran in the higher assist modes so I eventually and reluctantly gave in and got a full power. It is what it is I guess.
The majority of laws are required to control the anti-social activities of (small) minorities.
Wojtek
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Another way of lookinh at it is cars. You have some with over 1000HP/NM and they are legal. Whats not legal is breaking the law like speed limits.
In EU there is a category of Spedalec that require license plate and insurance, and it seems to be so heavily regulated that it is very offputting for bike brands.
With some work around legislation it could become more accessible.
In EU there is a category of Spedalec that require license plate and insurance, and it seems to be so heavily regulated that it is very offputting for bike brands.
With some work around legislation it could become more accessible.
Bwahahahahahaha! I hear where you're coming from. I have no interest in mountain bikes used to commute, ride on bridle trails, fire roads, or man-made "trails." But I understand I'm in the minority so I try to keep quiet for the most part... mostly.
For that reason, maybe it's best to embrace the chavs on Surron's. Their enemies are my enemies. It seems that no matter what I'm doing, there are some do-gooder pencil pushers who don't want me doing it. I'm worried if the pencil necked wankers are finally able to abolish the Surrons, they might come for me next.
Rockhopper70
Active member
But surely the crux of it is your last sentence. If people leave the bikes as they should be, to sit within the regulations of their local territory, then there “shouldn’t” be a problem. But just look on this forum alone and how many people openly admit to VPNing to New Zealand to get round the perceived stifling of their rights to have MORE FUN AND SPEED, even though it is illegal.
Not everyone will, of course, but just a few bad incidents with chipped Avinox bikes hitting pedestrians/walkers/horses at 30mph and that will be the start of a campaign against eebs. As always, it’s the minority that will spoil it for the majority.
Slightly off topic, but not entirely irrelevant, in my nearest city, Leeds, there is an ex golf course converted to MTB trails for all grades. It’s a fantastic free to use facility for cyclist and ebikers. But, of course, the allurement of jumps and berms is too much to resist for the local Surron bridage who tear the place to shreds. They don’t care, they want their fun, and screw everyone else. This is where, I fear, ebiking may go if the power and derestriction isn’t controlled.
Rockhopper70
Active member
The car analogy makes no sense whatsoever. There is a mimimum bar of driver standard set by a compulsory test, vehicles are subject to roadworthyness checks and drivers should have third party insurance if something goes wrong. None of these things apply to cycles and it is a very weak, “yeh but cars are fast” argument.
Wojtek
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S-pedalec requires third party insurance which is what i referred to.
Rest of the arguments I won't even comment.
Vision_Tim
New Member
The point was just because there is more power, doesn't mean you get to use it because rules, nor should you. But I'm sorry you disagree with personal responsibility.
Rockhopper70
Active member
I don’t disagree with personal responsibility at all. Very close to me is a lovely area of common land used by walkers, cyclists and horse riders. The history of access is blurred, but there have been efforts to have cyclists and horses banned. I am wholly mindful when I ride across there to give way, be polite, not rush and generally not come across as a plonker cyclist. Does everyone else, maybe, I don’t know. What I am saying is if I’m happy to stay within the framework of the law on my ebike, there is a much lower chance of upsetting someone else than someone on a derestricted Avinox bike. They have deristricted it for a reason, to circumvent the law and go faster than is legal in their territory/country.
We've been here before with your "wet blanket" but as said before, it might be applicable in Arizona but is inappropriate in the UK and many other countries outside the USA.
Paulquattro
Meet & Greet Elite
Also New jersey is getting stricter
Its coming i tell you .
New Jersey Passes Most Restrictive E-Bike Law in the U.S. | PeopleForBikes
But surely in the UK at least no one can convincingly claim the surron's are not an issue? I was at the local pump track last night in a major public park. 2 w@nkers turned up on Surron's and must have been doing 50mph on the tarmac directly next to the track. The place was busy with small children from probably age 2-3 on balance bikes within a few feet of them.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that it's not a big leap for an accident with someone getting flattened by them.
I remember borrowing my brother's Gen 4 Bosch Ebike commuting to work a few years ago. I was massively underwhelmed with constantly hitting the speed limiter on any flat or downhill sections (yes it was offroad) . I bought myself a "lightweight" Sx powered ebike and its brilliant for long rides. Made the mistake of entering an xc race after Xmas in the ebike class, everyone else was on full fat ebikes and I knew I was in for a lonely race lol. Each to their own though, I know the winch and plummet brigade love the Avinox bikes to get more "laps" in, but turning up in a van with the bike and ever increasingly, a Jackery or Bluetti portable power station isnt for me.
This is my opinion also. Yeah it's likely that power will get restricted at some point, with how the UK news likes to label every emoto crime as an ebike it's not helping the public perception. But what will be will be.
It's a shame that power sells, so now every manufacturer is just trying to throw more power at bikes to push sales. It feels like innovation is a bit dead. Where are the decent gearbox bikes, or belt bikes? Surely with the extra hammering drivetrains are getting now pushing more and more power isn't the answer, belt drive could be but no-one seems to be making it work?
At the end of the day though sales drive this and every man and his dog bought avinonx when it came out. Now I know a lot of lunatics with perfectly good Amflow PL's selling a kidney to get the new bike because +20nm. So can't blame the motor manufacturers or brands for going where the money is
I think there’s a lot more to it than power. Headline figures are usually the main attraction to a product, be it tech (CPU speed, RAM/ cars (BHP/battery) / bikes (weight / motor power)
But with Avinox I think they’ve bought a fair bit of innovation to the market. Take their new 700wh battery. It’s a brand new cell, that’s allowed incredibly thin downtubes. Compare that to Bosch and Gen 4 Levo that look ancient in comparison.
And also they are driving prices down. £3999 for a PR Carbon bike with AXS wireless and 800wh battery, that’s pricing innovation. They are capturing the entire market segment right down to entry level (like they do with drones).
Other than that, they’ve bought several very usable features, like fast charging, coast shifting, touch screens, slim bikes, excellentl integrated systems, rapid software updates.
Bikes now have Navigation on the screen, I can’t wait until I can ditch the Garmin completely.
You could always argue that these are small things that anyone could do- but in reality no one executed on these things when they really should have.
Bosch seem to operate at glacial pace. It’s not that they can’t do this stuff, they just seem to take so long to do things. Even to activate the derailleur power we need to take the bike to a dealer and they need to plug in the bike to a laptop to activate it?!
Specialized’s motto is Innovate or die. They had the market in 2017-2022 but now they have fallen behind and the Levo 4 is hardly capturing hearts and minds of EMTB fans like they once did.
I have absolutely zero doubt that DJI are / will be working on gearbox / CVT style transmission systems. They are already working on M3S of course now. They have no drivetrain business to worry about and they of course know that this is the bikes Achilles heel.
Paulquattro
Meet & Greet Elite
This stupid statement comes up time and time again in these discussions ,
What has a car got to do with a bicycle ?
A car is a motorized vehicle and is classed as such a bicycle/pedelec isnt ,
Do you drive on pavements /sidewalks with your car mixing with pedestrians and the likes, may be you do the odd trail center too in your car ?
Do you also want to Tax , insure ,register , get safety checks every year , and of course get a drivers license for your bicycle
Stop with the car comparisons already Please .
ObiWanBenobi
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- Mar 4, 2026
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I have had very powerful electric mountain bikes with circa 3000w that could only be legally ridden on private land back in 2018. It went 38mph. It had a throttle. It was a mid drive. It was a full suspension downhill bike.
I never had any problem with any where I rode back then because I am not an idiot and respect walkers, horse riders and other manual mountain bikers.
Anyone I spoke to loved my bike. I often gave interested people goes on it.
I can only assume that the people who ask these sort of questions like the op here, were the people that couldn't accept that electric mountain bikes were the future back in the days and tried to ridicule or shame anyone who enjoyed early e-biking.
People need to take agency over their actions. Any one can ride or drive anything like a tool. Just go on any roads and observe the idiots all around you.
If you can't trust yourself with power, stick to something that you can handle.
I never had any problem with any where I rode back then because I am not an idiot and respect walkers, horse riders and other manual mountain bikers.
Anyone I spoke to loved my bike. I often gave interested people goes on it.
I can only assume that the people who ask these sort of questions like the op here, were the people that couldn't accept that electric mountain bikes were the future back in the days and tried to ridicule or shame anyone who enjoyed early e-biking.
People need to take agency over their actions. Any one can ride or drive anything like a tool. Just go on any roads and observe the idiots all around you.
If you can't trust yourself with power, stick to something that you can handle.
More power and battery range the better. But on all the mtb rides I do off road you can’t do more than 20mph. It’s too tricky except for long open flats.
The issue is not the bikes but the riders. In the UK off road motorcycle routes such as byways because restricted and that was the end of off roading. Why, because of small minority of riders who rode recklessly and ruined it for everyone else.
So we need to educate riders, make it very uncool to ride on routes that are not legal and give the morons some kind of incentive for riding with respect. Such as discounts in bike stores for those who have signed up to a respectful rider’s course or similar.
As a commercial operation DJI understandably cares only about maximising sales/profit. The process of maximising DJI sales may in certain jurisdictions result in new legislation to control motorised two wheel vehicles.
Both me and my wife (my most frequent riding buddy) have full UK motorcycle licences so future licencing and insurance requirements would probably have minimal impact on us.
It seems that proposed New Jersey legislation is a warning of what may be to come so hey, be careful what you wish for.
Short term might be fine but in the longer term high power afficionados may not like future new laws. In fact, for sure they wouldn't/won't.
Both me and my wife (my most frequent riding buddy) have full UK motorcycle licences so future licencing and insurance requirements would probably have minimal impact on us.
It seems that proposed New Jersey legislation is a warning of what may be to come so hey, be careful what you wish for.
Short term might be fine but in the longer term high power afficionados may not like future new laws. In fact, for sure they wouldn't/won't.
Wojtek
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Apparently some people cant read or understand what they read and i cant help it.
We may have different opinions and it is fine.
It is just what you read is clearly not what i wrote.
Take few deep breaths and try again.
Anyway i think there are many scenarios each of us migjt have in mind when discussing it.
I mostly ride in forest/mountains with little traffic. If i see someone i reduce speed to 10kmh or so especially with kids and dogs.
JUst be friendly, smile and thank if they let me pass. It is just normal.
The extra power is mostly for super steep climbing. Cant see how this would bring any danger.
If you dont want to pay insurance and all that comes with it, DONT!!!
Your preferences and understanding don't make your right and others wrong or nonsense or stupid or "very weak argument"
The level of disprespect and culture of the discussion for some here is appaling.
I have owned 2 spedalec, happy to pay insurance and have all strickt peocedures done by me and the manufacturer.
Peace.
Avinox brought so much innovation, it is crazy when realizing their first model was so much better than competition doing it for over decades. And all the improvements in the new models.
They will make bosch and others wake up.
Competition is great for us, consumers, needless to say.
And the innovation is the least about 1500w. We didnt need it, didnt ask for it.
The weight, the price, the software, listening to cudtomer feedback - all 5 stars.
ObiWanBenobi
New Member
- Mar 4, 2026
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Try living in Europe with our rules.
They are broadly ignored and barely enforced in every country.
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