Maxon Air S 90Nm 620 W, 600/400. + 250Wh extender

dirtlab_marvin said:
Good points overall, and we’re aligned on more than you might think.
On the flexstay — fully agree, and honestly I was curious what you’d say. You landed exactly on 130, which is precisely where we’re at with that. We did try it at 150 but felt it was too close to the Paratu CP’s travel range and frankly not good enough to justify producing. So 130 it is, different rider, different brief. The Paratu CP runs a concentric pivot, proper four-bar, so none of the chatter and brake sensitivity issues you’re describing. Rear travel is adjustable at 145, 150, 160 and 165mm via shock stroke, and we run longer 230 eye-to-eye metric shocks for heat management and durability on a platform that’s working harder. Coil approved too — personally I prefer coil anyway. The weight penalty is a non-argument when you factor in what you get back in feel and longevity on a heavier, harder-hitting bike. You put weight where it makes sense, and low in the rear linkage is exactly that.
Frame-only is actually our default — it’s how we prefer to sell. We’re a smaller operation and we’re not going to pretend we can nail everyone’s spec wishes with a complete build. We don’t want to put together a kit someone pulls apart the day it arrives. We like custom builds ourselves, and our kits are set up for exactly that. Suspension-wise you can run DVO or Öhlins now, RockShox coil coming later.
On battery — noted, cell technology is moving fast and it’s something we’re watching closely
Click to expand...
dirtlab_marvin said:
Good points overall, and we’re aligned on more than you might think.
On the flexstay — fully agree, and honestly I was curious what you’d say. You landed exactly on 130, which is precisely where we’re at with that. We did try it at 150 but felt it was too close to the Paratu CP’s travel range and frankly not good enough to justify producing. So 130 it is, different rider, different brief. The Paratu CP runs a concentric pivot, proper four-bar, so none of the chatter and brake sensitivity issues you’re describing. Rear travel is adjustable at 145, 150, 160 and 165mm via shock stroke, and we run longer 230 eye-to-eye metric shocks for heat management and durability on a platform that’s working harder. Coil approved too — personally I prefer coil anyway. The weight penalty is a non-argument when you factor in what you get back in feel and longevity on a heavier, harder-hitting bike. You put weight where it makes sense, and low in the rear linkage is exactly that.
Frame-only is actually our default — it’s how we prefer to sell. We’re a smaller operation and we’re not going to pretend we can nail everyone’s spec wishes with a complete build. We don’t want to put together a kit someone pulls apart the day it arrives. We like custom builds ourselves, and our kits are set up for exactly that. Suspension-wise you can run DVO or Öhlins now, RockShox coil coming later.
On battery — noted, cell technology is moving fast and it’s something we’re watching closely
Click to expand...
I had missed your meaning on the first sentence — re-reading it now. Alex his test looked to be without the range extender cable installed so he could be sure to get home. The numbers he reached are far from impressive in my opinion and from my own experience, as even though I am a bit lighter I am not much lighter at 85kg.
For now I have my experience with the older bike with BikeDrive AIR 40Nm 280W and the 250Wh battery and with this bike I personally can easily beat those numbers. I have it as an enduro setup with Jade X coil, that bike is 18.5kg yet I have frequently done over 1000m and at some days even 1200m and always around 27-32km distance with in the end some battery % left. I do not ride it in mode 3 turbo all the time as it’s nonsense — it has modes, they serve a purpose. On the climbs I use them, on steep downhills I don’t as it’s in mode 1 eco, and if I have an aligned descent I can save battery by just turning the modes to 0 meaning it’s a pedal bike. This is something you learn when you own a bike like this. I know that Alex his bike has a fixed setting and I assume it’s the same as the sample I have been riding with the 360Wh battery, yet with that bike I can also do better numbers than he shows. With the Maxon the key is finding your sweetspot for rider input which I usually have at 200W and I assume his is set at 150W — I will check that with Maxon. Tomorrow I will get our first engine delivery and will immediately rebuild my current bike with the new engine, battery and HMI to see what settings they have as standard.
 
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Suns_PSD said:
Only other input is I prefer the 180mm native rear brake mount. I think it's enough for a bike in this travel range and pairs really well with a 200mm front rotor.

Every other sport has a larger front rotor than rear, because it just feels more balanced. Bikes have not caught on. If you do a 200mm rear, well now you need a 220mm front.

Regarding HCR, it's extremely unpopular but as long as you have electronic shifting and dropper, I really like it. It's clean, light, works with MX or standard brake mounting, cheaper to implement, etc. If I was designing a bike, I would not know what to do here because a huge number of people make a big deal about this. But I feel with only one rear brake line entering, it's a moot point. Maybe a really slick upper headset cup would included would remove those concerns?
Click to expand...
We use pm180 in the back I used to ride 180 rotors but on the e-bike on Taiwanese trails that are fast rocky and steep the 180 dies fast so 200 it is yet a 220 in front is too much again I think each riding area has sits specifics.

Regarding HCR or frame has an oval headtube with reach adjust cups both upper and lower bearings are bigger so you can use internal and or external routing as you see in the frame. We did Icr only on the first Maxon bike I hate it simply put as it’s a nuisance to work on I can imagine running the mode shifter wires through there yes but even that interference outside.

We will offer some extra covers for people that use wireless dropper and shifting and have grommets to cover the holes one dienst use as well

This frame is about having choices that make sense and for instance the reach adjust is super if you start in the center and fork up you move the reach forward and make up for the higher front and decrease in reach easier and have the same ride feel as on a shorter fork
 
Suns_PSD said:
Only other input is I prefer the 180mm native rear brake mount. I think it's enough for a bike in this travel range and pairs really well with a 200mm front rotor.

Every other sport has a larger front rotor than rear, because it just feels more balanced. Bikes have not caught on. If you do a 200mm rear, well now you need a 220mm front.

Regarding HCR, it's extremely unpopular but as long as you have electronic shifting and dropper, I really like it. It's clean, light, works with MX or standard brake mounting, cheaper to implement, etc. If I was designing a bike, I would not know what to do here because a huge number of people make a big deal about this. But I feel with only one rear brake line entering, it's a moot point. Maybe a really slick upper headset cup would included would remove those concerns?
Click to expand...
I couldn't disagree more with you on HCR. Maybe it's not terribly annoying to you when you only have 1 line, but it forces you to use a wireless dropper and wireless shifting. A wireless dropper - IMO - offers zero benefits but adds unnecessary cost and complexity. It's not like a dropper needs particularly precise actuation, so even a fouled cable doesn't really affect function. If the concern is getting around the motor - plan for it in frame design and that's it.

Even if you have only 1 line going through the headset, the complication in changing headset bearings or packing a bike for transport is just unnecessary. And as the front brake line will always be external, so you are not even getting a fully integrated setup anyway.

If you choose to use mechanical shifting (e.g., Linkglide) and a normal dropper, HCR becomes hell - it's mega annoying for no benefit. Just don't force people into it. It's stupid. By all means make the ZS cups big enough to accommodate angle and reach adjustment headsets or HCR, but always keep ports for traditional routing.
 
dirtlab_marvin said:
I had missed your meaning on the first sentence — re-reading it now. Alex his test looked to be without the range extender cable installed so he could be sure to get home. The numbers he reached are far from impressive in my opinion and from my own experience, as even though I am a bit lighter I am not much lighter at 85kg.
For now I have my experience with the older bike with BikeDrive AIR 40Nm 280W and the 250Wh battery and with this bike I personally can easily beat those numbers. I have it as an enduro setup with Jade X coil, that bike is 18.5kg yet I have frequently done over 1000m and at some days even 1200m and always around 27-32km distance with in the end some battery % left. I do not ride it in mode 3 turbo all the time as it’s nonsense — it has modes, they serve a purpose. On the climbs I use them, on steep downhills I don’t as it’s in mode 1 eco, and if I have an aligned descent I can save battery by just turning the modes to 0 meaning it’s a pedal bike. This is something you learn when you own a bike like this. I know that Alex his bike has a fixed setting and I assume it’s the same as the sample I have been riding with the 360Wh battery, yet with that bike I can also do better numbers than he shows. With the Maxon the key is finding your sweetspot for rider input which I usually have at 200W and I assume his is set at 150W — I will check that with Maxon. Tomorrow I will get our first engine delivery and will immediately rebuild my current bike with the new engine, battery and HMI to see what settings they have as standard.
Click to expand...
I currently ride a Kenevo SL1.1.
I understand Maxon's approach to the system, but I also think that just as some users want a lightweight system with a 400Wh battery and minimal assistance, others would prefer to get more out of the motor's power and would need 600Wh or even 800Wh batteries. Maxon offers "full power" performance with a respectable 600-800g weight reduction. A true enduro bike, full power at 20kg with an 800Wh battery, is the holy grail for many. While we're on the subject of suggestions, a more update display would be ideal, especially compared to the one that hasn't been released yet, which already looks outdated.
 
Imanol said:
I currently ride a Kenevo SL1.1.
I understand Maxon's approach to the system, but I also think that just as some users want a lightweight system with a 400Wh battery and minimal assistance, others would prefer to get more out of the motor's power and would need 600Wh or even 800Wh batteries. Maxon offers "full power" performance with a respectable 600-800g weight reduction. A true enduro bike, full power at 20kg with an 800Wh battery, is the holy grail for many. While we're on the subject of suggestions, a more update display would be ideal, especially compared to the one that hasn't been released yet, which already looks outdated.
Click to expand...
Totally get the 600/800Wh logic on paper — more capacity, same motor, less compromise. But the math doesn’t quite work out in practice.
A 600Wh in-tube battery weighs around 2.8kg vs 1.8kg for the 400Wh. The frame needs to be bigger to house it — add another 0.4-0.5kg to the structure. That’s +1.5kg sitting high in the front triangle on every ride whether you need the range or not.
The 250Wh range extender is 1.6kg in your bottle cage. Take it when you need it, leave it home when you don’t. 650Wh total on demand — that’s not a limitation, that’s a better system design.
The other side of the weight argument people miss: a lighter bike means more of your own watts actually go somewhere useful. You’re not just carrying less — you’re contributing more per pedal stroke. That compounds over a long day.
And then there’s the throttling issue. A lot of motors derate under sustained load — heat builds, power drops, you feel it on long climbs. Maxon doesn’t do that. Full output stays full output. So the 400Wh is doing more useful work per watt than a heavier system running at 80% because it’s thermal managing itself.
The “full power 20kg enduro bike with 800Wh” doesn’t exist yet at a weight that actually rides like an enduro bike. The ones claiming it are either measuring creatively or they’re riding a 23kg bike and calling it 20.
On the display — fair criticism, you’re not wrong.
 
dirtlab_marvin said:
Totally get the 600/800Wh logic on paper — more capacity, same motor, less compromise. But the math doesn’t quite work out in practice.
A 600Wh in-tube battery weighs around 2.8kg vs 1.8kg for the 400Wh. The frame needs to be bigger to house it — add another 0.4-0.5kg to the structure. That’s +1.5kg sitting high in the front triangle on every ride whether you need the range or not.
The 250Wh range extender is 1.6kg in your bottle cage. Take it when you need it, leave it home when you don’t. 650Wh total on demand — that’s not a limitation, that’s a better system design.
The other side of the weight argument people miss: a lighter bike means more of your own watts actually go somewhere useful. You’re not just carrying less — you’re contributing more per pedal stroke. That compounds over a long day.
And then there’s the throttling issue. A lot of motors derate under sustained load — heat builds, power drops, you feel it on long climbs. Maxon doesn’t do that. Full output stays full output. So the 400Wh is doing more useful work per watt than a heavier system running at 80% because it’s thermal managing itself.
The “full power 20kg enduro bike with 800Wh” doesn’t exist yet at a weight that actually rides like an enduro bike. The ones claiming it are either measuring creatively or they’re riding a 23kg bike and calling it 20.
On the display — fair criticism, you’re not wrong.
Click to expand...
Personally, I don't like fixed batteries in the frame, especially if they are small. I ride a Relay with Fazua and a 430 or 480wh battery that's removable. My buddy has a 430wh Decoy, where the battery isn't removable. We went on weekend trips where we'd do a morning and an afternoon session. Recharging his battery took too long and really ate into the day. Battery swapping was much easier.

i.e. please make the battery easily swappable, even if it isn't with a door (e.g., Crestline drops the battery out before the BB). This is particularly relevant for small batteries.
 
This thread proves that you can't please everyone.
I also own a Relay and I would never own a removable battery bike again. Just too many compromises.
600 watt hour and a fast charger is all you need for this efficient motor.
 
dirtlab_marvin said:
Totally get the 600/800Wh logic on paper — more capacity, same motor, less compromise. But the math doesn’t quite work out in practice.
A 600Wh in-tube battery weighs around 2.8kg vs 1.8kg for the 400Wh. The frame needs to be bigger to house it — add another 0.4-0.5kg to the structure. That’s +1.5kg sitting high in the front triangle on every ride whether you need the range or not.
The 250Wh range extender is 1.6kg in your bottle cage. Take it when you need it, leave it home when you don’t. 650Wh total on demand — that’s not a limitation, that’s a better system design.
The other side of the weight argument people miss: a lighter bike means more of your own watts actually go somewhere useful. You’re not just carrying less — you’re contributing more per pedal stroke. That compounds over a long day.
And then there’s the throttling issue. A lot of motors derate under sustained load — heat builds, power drops, you feel it on long climbs. Maxon doesn’t do that. Full output stays full output. So the 400Wh is doing more useful work per watt than a heavier system running at 80% because it’s thermal managing itself.
The “full power 20kg enduro bike with 800Wh” doesn’t exist yet at a weight that actually rides like an enduro bike. The ones claiming it are either measuring creatively or they’re riding a 23kg bike and calling it 20.
On the display — fair criticism, you’re not wrong.
Click to expand...
Whoever says 20 says 20.99kg, hahaha, the Fazua system adds +/- 4.5kg and there are well-built enduro bikes I've ridden that weighed 20.5-20.7kg. With the Maxon system, with a 600Wh battery, you could definitely get close, although perhaps we should start another philosophical thread about what kind of setup we want on our bikes and what we actually use them for, because some riders could easily ride a lighter bike than the one they usually ride. And looking towards the near future, considering the development of 21700 cells, 6Ah, 6.2Ah, 6.5Ah and even 6.69Ah, 700Wh, full power and 20.99kg isn't unreasonable. For now, I'll wait until 2027 for Maxon to develop a bit more.
 
Suns_PSD said:
This thread proves that you can't please everyone.
I also own a Relay and I would never own a removable battery bike again. Just too many compromises.
600 watt hour and a fast charger is all you need for this efficient motor.
Click to expand...
Because you don't ride long enough 😜

Edit: what are the compromises for you?
 
jever98 said:
Because you don't ride long enough 😜

Edit: what are the compromises for you?
Click to expand...

I also have a Wild CX-R with a 600wh battery and that's a much better bike for me. I actually really like the Fazua 60, it's the chassis that's the big improvement.

Slowing I'm piecing the Relay back together and then I'll sell it off. The issues that I had are primarily the frame is very stiff as a result of the huge hole, the battery could not be as low as it would be if fixed, I use a safety strap around the battery access hole, but people have had those batteries exit at untimely moments. I just don't see the advantage, and I was not ever going to buy a second battery to swap either.

Having the battery exit out of the bottom preserves downtube strength (i.e. Rocky Mountain, Crestline, maybe Pivot) but also notably compromises ground clearance. So it's still a negative to me.

Also, I generally ride all out and am completely beat at 2-3 hours. Just don't need to ride more than that.
 
Suns_PSD said:
I also have a Wild CX-R with a 600wh battery and that's a much better bike for me. I actually really like the Fazua 60, it's the chassis that's the big improvement.

Slowing I'm piecing the Relay back together and then I'll sell it off. The issues that I had are primarily the frame is very stiff, the battery could not be as low as it would be if fixed, I use a safety strap around the battery access hole, but people have had those batteries exit at untimely moments. I just don't see the advantage, and I was not ever going to buy a second battery to swap either.

Also, I generally ride all out and am completely beat at 2-3 hours. Just don't need to ride more than that.
Click to expand...
The only compromise I read in there is frame stiffness. With regards to batteries flying out - I haven't had that issue and others have also implemented removable batteries without issues.

On the contrary, a fixed battery has lots of compromises in my book:
- Can't charge the battery off the bike - a problem when you're in a place where your bike storage doesn't have power
- Can't ride without the battery - a huge downside in places like Whistler, where the Relay becomes a great park bike (for my riding level, at least)
- No ability to do 2x a day sessions without an extended charging stop - e.g., we rode Bellingham, then Vancouver North Shore in one day; Diamond Head and then Alice Lake in Squamish another day

As you said earlier - you can't satisfy everyone.
 
Yah, I will say that I had a really good day on my Relay at the bike park with the battery removed. It was like having a full-on DH bike that weighed just under 40#s. It was cool.

That said, I bet I could pull the battery in 10 minutes once I knew what I was doing on my Wild. It takes longer to grab the tools than to remove the motor.

Actually, would be really cool if Orbea offered a bolt in crankset to make it a pedal bike so that you could remove the battery/ motor for certain activities. Not something you'd want to do daily but for a week trip, it could be really cool and much cheaper than buying a whole other bike.
 
As has been stated in this thread - a 20 kg ebike with 165-180 mm travel, 600-800 Wh removable battery, around 80 Nm torque, uninterrupted seat tube, good geo and suspension design is the holy grail for Enduro riders.
Range extenders sucks in long term use (several years experience with Kenovo SL)
Easy removable battery with multiple capacity options is heaven (2 seasons experience with Slash +)
Slash+ with Maxon Air S would be currently my dream bike. I hope Trek is listening.
 
dirtlab_marvin said:
Totally get the 600/800Wh logic on paper — more capacity, same motor, less compromise. But the math doesn’t quite work out in practice.
A 600Wh in-tube battery weighs around 2.8kg vs 1.8kg for the 400Wh. The frame needs to be bigger to house it — add another 0.4-0.5kg to the structure. That’s +1.5kg sitting high in the front triangle on every ride whether you need the range or not.
The 250Wh range extender is 1.6kg in your bottle cage. Take it when you need it, leave it home when you don’t. 650Wh total on demand — that’s not a limitation, that’s a better system design.
The other side of the weight argument people miss: a lighter bike means more of your own watts actually go somewhere useful. You’re not just carrying less — you’re contributing more per pedal stroke. That compounds over a long day.
And then there’s the throttling issue. A lot of motors derate under sustained load — heat builds, power drops, you feel it on long climbs. Maxon doesn’t do that. Full output stays full output. So the 400Wh is doing more useful work per watt than a heavier system running at 80% because it’s thermal managing itself.
The “full power 20kg enduro bike with 800Wh” doesn’t exist yet at a weight that actually rides like an enduro bike. The ones claiming it are either measuring creatively or they’re riding a 23kg bike and calling it 20.
On the display — fair criticism, you’re not wrong.
Click to expand...
real 400Wh, or only 336Wh nominal as ebike-mtb.com tested it? how much can you really use of this "400Wh"?
 
sethimus said:
real 400Wh, or only 336Wh nominal as ebike-mtb.com tested it? how much can you really use
Click to expand...
I imagine it will be a 10s2p structure; if they use 5.5 Ah cells they would have approximately 400 Wh, if they were 5 Ah cells, approximately 370 Wh.
Unless they're still using 18650...
 
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In Our 2026 Motor Group Test, the maxon AIR S Goes Head-to-Head With Eleven Rival Systems – Find Out How It Performs on the Trail and in the Lab!
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