Sram t type chain issues

[Astro66]

I know from my findings on the standard type SRAM chains. The X01 chain outlasts the GX by quite a lot and doesn't damage the cassette anywhere like the cheaper chains do.
It's the only chain that I will fit.
With that in mind, my new bike came with a GX flattop and it got taken off instantly and a X0 chain fitted at a stupidly high price .
The funny thing about this thread is that a few people seem to be going for the cheapest pile of crap going from AliExpress etc and expect it to last

My new bike comes with the all steel XS-1270 cassette. So I thought it a good idea to test the Gold KMC chain on it, and check life of the cassette and chain. I'll report back, but it will take a while to get the km up.

That said. I do agree that putting a cheap chain on an expensive cassette, is probably not a good idea.

Regarding the chainring though. I use alloy Aliexpress chainrings, and they have been great. The XO chain I run on it is showing no measurable stretch with 1200km on it. It's an XO cassette as well. And apart from missing paint, the chainring is holding up really well too.

 

[RickBullotta]

Just go with an X0 chain. Problem solved.

 

[Astro66]

Just go with an X0 chain. Problem solved.

XO chain and cassette is over AUD$800.
KMC chain and XS-1270 cassette is AUD$250.

With the new bike coming with the XS-1270. I'm going to try the $250 setup. I can directly compare it to the life I get on the XO setup on the Amflow.

If the numbers add up. I will stick with cheaper setup. If they don't I'll upgrade to X0. But it's not hurting to try.

 

[RickBullotta]

XO chain and cassette is over AUD$800.
KMC chain and XS-1270 cassette is AUD$250.

With the new bike coming with the XS-1270. I'm going to try the $250 setup. I can directly compare it to the life I get on the XO setup on the Amflow.

If the numbers add up. I will stick with cheaper setup. If they don't I'll upgrade to X0. But it's not hurting to try.

Why would you need to change the cassette?

 

[Bear-uk]

I would also like to say that I run the X01 chain on shitmano cassettes without any problems
If you're not bothered about weight then just use a steel cassette.
There are also different different chain checking gauges available for flat top chains.

 

[ntm95]

What are you cleaning your chain with ?
Some cleaning agents like "simple green" will cause hydrogen embrittlement, which leads to cracking similar to what you are seeing.

 

[Bear-uk]

What are you cleaning your chain with ?
Some cleaning agents like "simple green" will cause hydrogen embrittlement, which leads to cracking similar to what you are seeing.

If it's wet, I give it a squirt of WD40 to dispense the water.
Dry down and then I use chainsaw oil as its anti fling, but I'm about to try some Fox Teflon infused fork oil that needs using up

 

[ntm95]

If it's wet, I give it a squirt of WD40 to dispense the water.
Dry down and then I use chainsaw oil as its anti fling, but I'm about to try some Fox Teflon infused fork oil that needs using up

Chainsaw oil is typically death to bike chains. It's too thick to penetrate properly, particularly if there's some residual wd40 in the bushings. And it's tacky nature attracts particulate like nothing else.
Lots of people used to try it on motocross bikes too, back before o ring chains, and it always ended in tears.

I'm a pretty big fan of hot wax (silca) at this point.

 

[Bear-uk]

Maybe on a powerful MX bike, but I find it ok for an ebike.

 

[GeorgesEBike]

4000 mikes Miles on a single chain!!!
I don't know anyone who gets over 2000, and that's with rotating 2 chains.
Do you hot dip in wax?

I use White Lighting Clean Ride lube and do lube after each ride.

 

[randycpu]

I wonder how many different chains SRAM actually make?

eg
SRAM T-Type 70
SRAM T-Type GX
SRAM t-Type X0

Is there an actual material and strength difference to these chains, other than the logo/coating? Looking at the X0 - the only difference I can tell, is that is has the anti corrosion coating on it. Underneath that coating, is it the same chain? Would SRAM actually go to the lengths to manufacture 3 x different chains here?

SRAM quote the GX is the STRONGEST SRAM CHAIN EVER

SRAM also quote the XO as STRONGEST SRAM CHAIN EVER

From SRAM’s published data, the confirmed differences between T-Type 70, GX and X0 are mainly the finishes/coatings. SRAM does not publish tensile, fatigue, or breaking strength data that proves X0 is stronger than GX or 70.

Therefore, based on published SRAM data alone, we cannot claim a strength advantage for X0, but you also cannot prove the chains are /are not completely identical beneath the coating.

Personally i doubt SRAM are using three different base chain materials here. I think its more likely the arcitecture and materials are the same, and they differentiate them with surface tratment / finish and corrosion wear coating, and price them differently.

But what about the high end 12 speed flattop road chains?

 

[Joecrow]

I would suggest that an e- bike chain should never break even if heavily abused!
The fact that they do strongly implies to me that the specification of the chain is insufficient to cope with the forces put on it. I come to this conclusion having ridden and road raced many different motorcycles from the age of 16 until only a few years ago and never had a motorcycle chain break on me. I lost the spring link a couple of time and had the chain fly off but never a break and I had very little money in my younger days and chains were well knackered long before I could afford to replace them!
I would guess that derailleur gear changing, which was designed for leg power only bicycles, defines the type of chain whereas the higher forces of an e-bike could most likely be better handled with a wider chain with thicker plates, having said that I am surprised the more expensive bicycle chains, hopefully made with better materials, also do not seem to be unbreakable.

 

[Astro66]

Why would you need to change the cassette?

I don't. I'm saying my new bike comes with a cheaper all steel cassette so I want to try the cheaper KMC chain. I've also bought the bottom of the range S1000 AXS Transmission derailleur and pod for $550. I also have bought a spare S1000 derailleur cage and jockey wheel for $60, as it's one of the most easily damaged components.

I want to try this as an entire system, and compare it to my entire XO System on the Amflow.

So I'll get to compare a $800 Electronic SRAM AXS Transmission system to an over $2000 system. Because the expense of SRAM Transmission is one of the biggest gripes riders have. If I get reasonable longevity. I'll know this is a system I can spec on future builds as well as what I can run on the Amflow when components wear out or break.

 

[Astro66]

Chainsaw oil is typically death to bike chains. It's too thick to penetrate properly, particularly if there's some residual wd40 in the bushings. And it's tacky nature attracts particulate like nothing else.
Lots of people used to try it on motocross bikes too, back before o ring chains, and it always ended in tears.

I'm a pretty big fan of hot wax (silca) at this point.

3 years ago, I switched from chain oil to a wax, (Squirt), and I literally am seeing almost no chain stretch. A AUD$20 bottle lasts about 2500km or just over 12 months for me.

I do clean the chain and apply about every fortnight, or after a wet or sandy ride.

Cleaning and Application after riding is the best tip I can give. Application before the ride, is not as effective. It needs to penetrate and dry.

 

[MZimelka]

Sooo, this thread has moved into which replacement chains to use. An X0 T-Type chain STARTS at US$100 on the secondary market (eBay). But a Force "Flattop" chain starts at $40, which is much more reasonable for a consumable part.
Questions:
- Are these comparable and compatible?
- Is it OK to go to the dark side (road) to scavenge for eMTB parts?
- Which is the sturdiest cheap(er) chain that works with MTB T-Type drivetrains?

PS: There is a bright purple version of the Force chain...

With SRAM's pricing, especially here in Southern Africa, I'm not going to fall for the SRAM marketing machine speak... the prices are stupendous, and I feel it's doing the industry a disservice. RRP for the GX chain here is equivalent to USD 90 while general household income in Southern Africa is lower than in EU or USA.

From my experience, maximum value and service life comes from the Force chains for road and gravel use... Red costs too much and Rival is trash.
With Transmission, I'm guessing the best value service life will be from the GX chain. The Eagle 70 chain is terrible, and only costs the user more money by either wearing out so quickly with an ebike that it trashes the cassette before one even realises it. Or in the case of the OP, develops cracks and is a safety issue.

The Force chains I'm using are the older ones (the12 speed D1 type) with the solid outer link plates. They have hard chrome coated inner plates and links. They don't rust and last very long. GX Transmission specs seem very similar.

I've done 150km and just over 3000m elevation gain with the Force chain in the last week, and it's still on its original emersion wax lube and riding quietly and smoothly. The Eagle 70 chain that came with my Levo R was sounding horrible after two rides, around 70km and 700m elevation gain. Both chains were emersion waxed with Silca Hot Wax from new.

I'll have to report back in a week or so when I get back home from holiday, when I can clean and measure total chain length again of the Force chain.

Like mentioned above, I would recommend buying either Force or GX chains. Perhaps X0 if the price isn't much higher. Rotate through chains and don't allow them to elongate by much. Worn chains can wear out cassettes in very short order.

 

[MZimelka]

I know from my findings on the standard type SRAM chains. The X01 chain outlasts the GX by quite a lot and doesn't damage the cassette anywhere like the cheaper chains do.
It's the only chain that I will fit.
With that in mind, my new bike came with a GX flattop and it got taken off instantly and a X0 chain fitted at a stupidly high price .
The funny thing about this thread is that a few people seem to be going for the cheapest pile of crap going from AliExpress etc and expect it to last

Yes, on the older Eagle range, GX chains wear out quicker than X01. The X01 chains were fantastic with the hard chrome coatings. My X01 chains for my older mtb often got over 3500-4000km per chain, but only when used in rotation with two other chains swapped around every 1000km. At this point they had elongated by less than 0.25% but the amount of diagonal play that developed, from presumably cross chaining and shifting, was high and usually the reason I chose to throw them out of circulation.

Bear in mind, the above miles are for trail riding in mostly dry dusty desert conditions. An average 40km ride would on average see only 350m elevation gain. So not much climbing.

But the Transmission GX chain specs are better than the older GX eagle. So I wouldn't compare the new GX to be like the old GX

 

[RickBullotta]

With SRAM's pricing, especially here in Southern Africa, I'm not going to fall for the SRAM marketing machine speak... the prices are stupendous, and I feel it's doing the industry a disservice. RRP for the GX chain here is equivalent to USD 90 while general household income in Southern Africa is lower than in EU or USA.

From my experience, maximum value and service life comes from the Force chains for road and gravel use... Red costs too much and Rival is trash.
With Transmission, I'm guessing the best value service life will be from the GX chain. The Eagle 70 chain is terrible, and only costs the user more money by either wearing out so quickly with an ebike that it trashes the cassette before one even realises it. Or in the case of the OP, develops cracks and is a safety issue.

The Force chains I'm using are the older ones (the12 speed D1 type) with the solid outer link plates. They have hard chrome coated inner plates and links. They don't rust and last very long. GX Transmission specs seem very similar.

I've done 150km and just over 3000m elevation gain with the Force chain in the last week, and it's still on its original emersion wax lube and riding quietly and smoothly. The Eagle 70 chain that came with my Levo R was sounding horrible after two rides, around 70km and 700m elevation gain. Both chains were emersion waxed with Silca Hot Wax from new.

I'll have to report back in a week or so when I get back home from holiday, when I can clean and measure total chain length again of the Force chain.

Like mentioned above, I would recommend buying either Force or GX chains. Perhaps X0 if the price isn't much higher. Rotate through chains and don't allow them to elongate by much. Worn chains can wear out cassettes in very short order.

There have been actual studies of SRAM chain life and no, GX is not necessarily the "best value service life" - particularly when you consider the value of a ruined or missed ride.

Here's some info:

Latest Zero Friction Cycling News - Chain efficiency vs Longevity - Zero Friction Cycling

Latest News 56 – Chain efficiency vs Longevity Alrighty here we go, something I have wanted to be able to publish for a long time – I finally have clearance! Some chains have outstanding wear longevity, but are not very fast. Some chains are very fast, but have very poor wear life. Some chains do...

zerofrictioncycling.com.au

 

[randycpu]

There have been actual studies of SRAM chain life and no, GX is not necessarily the "best value service life" - particularly when you consider the value of a ruined or missed ride.

Here's some info:

Latest Zero Friction Cycling News - Chain efficiency vs Longevity - Zero Friction Cycling

Latest News 56 – Chain efficiency vs Longevity Alrighty here we go, something I have wanted to be able to publish for a long time – I finally have clearance! Some chains have outstanding wear longevity, but are not very fast. Some chains are very fast, but have very poor wear life. Some chains do...

zerofrictioncycling.com.au

That study (which I remember reading when it was new) was published in 2022.
This discussion is about transmission drivetrains, which resets many paradigms.

 

[RickBullotta]

That study (which I remember reading when it was new) was published in 2022.
This discussion is about transmission drivetrains, which resets many paradigms.

The point is that the higher grade SRAM chains are superior. My experience with T-Type chains support this.

 

[Montana St Alum]

That study (which I remember reading when it was new) was published in 2022.
This discussion is about transmission drivetrains, which resets many paradigms.

How so?

 

[MZimelka]

There have been actual studies of SRAM chain life and no, GX is not necessarily the "best value service life" - particularly when you consider the value of a ruined or missed ride.

Here's some info:

Latest Zero Friction Cycling News - Chain efficiency vs Longevity - Zero Friction Cycling

Latest News 56 – Chain efficiency vs Longevity Alrighty here we go, something I have wanted to be able to publish for a long time – I finally have clearance! Some chains have outstanding wear longevity, but are not very fast. Some chains are very fast, but have very poor wear life. Some chains do...

zerofrictioncycling.com.au

The GX chains that are referenced in that article are for Eagle 12 speed, ie, NOT TRANSMISSION.
I never said eagle GX chains provide the best value!

 

[randycpu]

How so?

SRAM's published guidelines for Transmission is to replace chain, chainring, and cassette as a group when worn out. They offer no recommendations for measuring chain wear (stretch).

 

[Montana St Alum]

Regarding SRAM's position on T-Type component replacement, I did an AI search (because I'm way too lazy to read all of SRAM's stuff) that turned up Vital MTB interview quotes that say the chain and cassette should be replaced together, but when I asked it to look specifically at published T-Type guidance from SRAM. It responded:
Based on the search results:

• No SRAM manual says “replace chain and cassette at the same time.”
• No SRAM manual says “Transmission chains and cassettes are designed to wear together.”
• No SRAM manual says “do not replace chains early.”
• No SRAM manual says “Transmission chain wear intervals differ from Eagle.”

Those claims appear only in media interviews, reviews, or third‑party summaries, not in SRAM’s own published documentation.

There was a time, when chains and cassettes were cheap, when many people would let the chain and cassette wear together. As cassettes got expensive - $500 for a cassette is ridiculous, but what can we do - that policy became unworkable.

If you get two chains, particularly if you wax and swap out, you'll get great life out of both. The wear on the cassette, is much less than on the chain, unless you spend 100% of your time in one gear, the wear per gear should be about 1/12th that of the chain, wouldn't it?

 

[RickBullotta]

The GX chains that are referenced in that article are for Eagle 12 speed, ie, NOT TRANSMISSION.
I never said eagle GX chains provide the best value!

"With Transmission, I'm guessing the best value service life will be from the GX chain"

Regarding SRAM's position on T-Type component replacement, I did an AI search (because I'm way too lazy to read all of SRAM's stuff) that turned up Vital MTB interview quotes that say the chain and cassette should be replaced together, but when I asked it to look specifically at published T-Type guidance from SRAM. It responded:
Based on the search results:

• No SRAM manual says “replace chain and cassette at the same time.”
• No SRAM manual says “Transmission chains and cassettes are designed to wear together.”
• No SRAM manual says “do not replace chains early.”
• No SRAM manual says “Transmission chain wear intervals differ from Eagle.”

Those claims appear only in media interviews, reviews, or third‑party summaries, not in SRAM’s own published documentation.

There was a time, when chains and cassettes were cheap, when many people would let the chain and cassette wear together. As cassettes got expensive - $500 for a cassette is ridiculous, but what can we do - that policy became unworkable.

If you get two chains, particularly if you wax and swap out, you'll get great life out of both. The wear on the cassette, is much less than on the chain, unless you spend 100% of your time in one gear, the wear per gear should be about 1/12th that of the chain, wouldn't it?

I get an eternity out of cassettes these days, even on my eeb. It's the folks who spend too much time in turbo on the smallest cassette cogs who can expect accelerated wear.

 

[randycpu]

Regarding SRAM's position on T-Type component replacement, I did an AI search (because I'm way too lazy to read all of SRAM's stuff) that turned up Vital MTB interview quotes that say the chain and cassette should be replaced together, but when I asked it to look specifically at published T-Type guidance from SRAM. It responded:
Based on the search results:

• No SRAM manual says “replace chain and cassette at the same time.”
• No SRAM manual says “Transmission chains and cassettes are designed to wear together.”
• No SRAM manual says “do not replace chains early.”
• No SRAM manual says “Transmission chain wear intervals differ from Eagle.”

Those claims appear only in media interviews, reviews, or third‑party summaries, not in SRAM’s own published documentation.

There was a time, when chains and cassettes were cheap, when many people would let the chain and cassette wear together. As cassettes got expensive - $500 for a cassette is ridiculous, but what can we do - that policy became unworkable.

If you get two chains, particularly if you wax and swap out, you'll get great life out of both. The wear on the cassette, is much less than on the chain, unless you spend 100% of your time in one gear, the wear per gear should be about 1/12th that of the chain, wouldn't it?

Like you, I don't have time to read all of SRAM's output. I primarily get my advise from this forum, which is where I got the advise on T-type drivetrain wear and replacement.

As for even wear on all of the cassette gears, wear is proportional to the axial force on the chain, which is proportional to the torque at the chainring. This force is highest when climbing. So the larger gears will wear fastest. And if you "never" use gears 1 or 2, your gear 3 will wear fastest.

 

[RickBullotta]

Like you, I don't have time to read all of SRAM's output. I primarily get my advise from this forum, which is where I got the advise on T-type drivetrain wear and replacement.

As for even wear on all of the cassette gears, wear is proportional to the axial force on the chain, which is proportional to the torque at the chainring. This force is highest when climbing. So the larger gears will wear fastest. And if you "never" use gears 1 or 2, your gear 3 will wear fastest.

Actually, smaller cogs wear faster due to chain wrap.

 

[Montana St Alum]

I don't know how much each gear on a cassette wears. I would just expect the rate of wear on each gear on a 12 speed to wear more slowly than the wear if it was a single speed.
I was surprised, though that there is no direction from SRAM on the topic of swapping chains Vs. swapping the entire drive train.
That was really my only point.

 

[RickBullotta]

I don't know how much each gear on a cassette wears. I would just expect the rate of wear on each gear on a 12 speed to wear more slowly than the wear if it was a single speed.
I was surprised, though that there is no direction from SRAM on the topic of swapping chains Vs. swapping the entire drive train.
That was really my only point.

Agreed. I’m surprised there’s not a tool for measuring cassette cog wear.

 

[MZimelka]

"With Transmission, I'm guessing the best value service life will be from the GX chain"


I get an eternity out of cassettes these days, even on my eeb. It's the folks who spend too much time in turbo on the smallest cassette cogs who can expect accelerated wear.

Again, The GX chains that are referenced in that article are for Eagle 12 speed, ie, NOT TRANSMISSION.

Again, "With Transmission, I'm guessing the best value service life will be from the GX chain" Emphasis on the word TRANSMISSION!!!

Eagle GX 12 speed is the old stuff.
Transmission GX is the new stuff, with the flattop chains.

 

[Montana St Alum]

The most durable chain per price for T-Type transmissions is probably the XO solid pin.

The solid pin is very durable. More so than hollow pin.
It has electroless nickel plating which increases durability and resistance to corrosion.
It has the PVD (physical vapor deposition) coating which is extremely hard, low friction and abrasion resistant.

These coatings also allow the chain to "play well" with hot wax.
Also, since it wears so much more slowly than GX, it probably has a lower impact on wear on the cassette and chainring.

I'd skip GX and the added price of XX probably isn't worth the minor improvements.