Forbidden Druid CorE vs Crestline

[Hob Nob]

Erm....the chaps who designed the bike said they set out to make a more capable trail bike and that is what it is through and through out. It's not an Enduro bike, they said its not.

And then watch the videos of Olly (Forbidden) absolutely tearing the tyres off the thing, on (very) punchy trails, at a pace that 99% of amateur riders can’t even get close to (even on an enduro or DH bike). Having ridden with him, he’s an absolute ripper.

If people believe the Druid is just for ‘trail riding’, then they are mistaken. I also don’t subscribe that there is no replacement for more travel, there are bikes that are considerably better at using what they have, which comparatively gives the feeling of more (VPP bikes being the classic example of feeling like they have less).

We kid ourselves we ‘need’ all this travel, when in reality we should probably invest in our skills a bit more, rather than compensating our lack of them.

 

[irie]

We kid ourselves we ‘need’ all this travel, when in reality we should probably invest in our skills a bit more, rather than compensating our lack of them.

Agree with you.

Was the same when I road raced motorcycles (Brands, Snetterton, etc). The power merchants chased ever faster bikes but they could improve their lap times far more by braking a little later into corners, getting round the corners a little quicker, then on corner exit getting back on the power a little earlier thus getting a higher top speed down the straights.

 

[ntm95]

I vote for e-dreadnought !

 

[slickrock]

E-Dreadnought would be more apples-to-apples comparison than the E-Druid, at least travel-wise. Have the kinematics and geo on the e-dread been leaked?

 

[west]

E-Dreadnought would be more apples-to-apples comparison than the E-Druid, at least travel-wise. Have the kinematics and geo on the e-dread been leaked?

Reach: 425, 445, 461, 481
Stack: 635, 648, 669, 682
HA: 63
Rear center: 434, 449, 463, 478

 

[Chairman]

Reach: 425, 445, 461, 481
Stack: 635, 648, 669, 682
HA: 63
Rear center: 434, 449, 463, 478

Any more news on the 935 batteries?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Reach: 425, 445, 461, 481
Stack: 635, 648, 669, 682
HA: 63
Rear center: 434, 449, 463, 478

I really wish that I could get a week on this sort of geo but it's so radically different than what I've found I typically like that I'm fearful of dropping 5 figures to find out that it doesn't work for me.

In a world where bike geometry has all became so similar, Forbidden is an outlier that's for certain.

 

[slickrock]

I really wish that I could get a week on this sort of geo but it's so radically different than what I've found I typically like that I'm fearful of dropping 5 figures to find out that it doesn't work for me.

In a world where bike geometry has all became so similar, Forbidden is an outlier that's for certain.

Also, wheelbase was not provided so F/R can't be reliably calculated. STA, BB H/D needed as well.

 

[ntm95]

I really wish that I could get a week on this sort of geo but it's so radically different than what I've found I typically like that I'm fearful of dropping 5 figures to find out that it doesn't work for me.

In a world where bike geometry has all became so similar, Forbidden is an outlier that's for certain.

Jump on a dreadnought v2.
I'm running 471 reach, 640 stack, 460 chainstay with 30mm of spacers and a 50mm bar. So pretty similar to those numbers. It requires you to really drive through your hips/feet. But is very stable, very fast, and corners like nothing else.
That kind of geo's super power is riding things blind at unreasonable pace. You do not need to set up for things in terms of body position, since you run the bike from the center.

 

[Plummet]

And then watch the videos of Olly (Forbidden) absolutely tearing the tyres off the thing, on (very) punchy trails, at a pace that 99% of amateur riders can’t even get close to (even on an enduro or DH bike). Having ridden with him, he’s an absolute ripper.

If people believe the Druid is just for ‘trail riding’, then they are mistaken. I also don’t subscribe that there is no replacement for more travel, there are bikes that are considerably better at using what they have, which comparatively gives the feeling of more (VPP bikes being the classic example of feeling like they have less).

We kid ourselves we ‘need’ all this travel, when in reality we should probably invest in our skills a bit more, rather than compensating our lack of them.

Stating a pro can rip on the bike really doesn't prove anything other than pro's can rip on just about anything. Give them the base model anything and they will kick our arses on our expensive as shit bikes with all the gizmo's.

Now im not saying the druid is not capable. Surely it is. But unless the travel is terrible you are not going to make up for a chunk less more travel with high pivot. It just aint happening. With that said. It has to get very chunky before a modern 150-160 bike is starts outgunned and starts holding somebody back compared to a 180/180 bike. I would say double black super gnarly trails is where the 180mm bike has an advantage when comparing equal skill riders.

So,,,,, for most normal riding and most riders the druid will be fit for purpose and will not limit the rider. On the opposite side to this the 180/180 bike wont be as good on the easier trails as the tighter crisper 150/160 bike..... So the full time 180/180 guy pays the price on easier trails for too much squish.

I personally am a proponent of buying the bike to suit the trails you like riding most. For me that's the double black chunk fest. Give me the 180/180mm bike any day over the 150/160 bike. For most the 150/160 bike is the best bike for them as they are not chasing the chunk.

 

[ntm95]

Stating a pro can rip on the bike really doesn't prove anything other than pro's can rip on just about anything. Give them the base model anything and they will kick our arses on our expensive as shit bikes with all the gizmo's.

Now im not saying the druid is not capable. Surely it is. But unless the travel is terrible you are not going to make up for a chunk less more travel with high pivot. It just aint happening. With that said. It has to get very chunky before a modern 150-160 bike is starts outgunned and starts holding somebody back compared to a 180/180 bike. I would say double black super gnarly trails is where the 180mm bike has an advantage when comparing equal skill riders.

So,,,,, for most normal riding and most riders the druid will be fit for purpose and will not limit the rider. On the opposite side to this the 180/180 bike wont be as good on the easier trails as the tighter crisper 150/160 bike..... So the full time 180/180 guy pays the price on easier trails for too much squish.

I personally am a proponent of buying the bike to suit the trails you like riding most. For me that's the double black chunk fest. Give me the 180/180mm bike any day over the 150/160 bike. For most the 150/160 bike is the best bike for them as they are not chasing the chunk.

There's more to it for sure.
I've had 180mm bikes that felt less capable than 150mm bikes. And 160mm bikes that were more sluggish than 180mm.
All depends on kinematics and setup.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Large travel just helps you go faster. You don't need 180mm to pick down a gnarly fall line, no matter how rough. Some of the fastest riders I've seen are choosing less travel. Some do it to make it more exciting as they are very good riders and some do it because the time picked up sprinting, pumping and manueving makes up for any losses when going very fast over chunk.

As far as me getting a proper rip on a Dread, it's a moot point because I decided to stay safe and order a Wild. It'll be here in 2 weeks.

 

[ntm95]

Large travel just helps you go faster. You don't need 180mm to pick down a gnarly fall line, no matter how rough. Some of the fastest riders I've seen are choosing less travel. Some do it to make it more exciting as they are very good riders and some do it because the time picked up sprinting, pumping and manueving makes up for any losses when going very fast over chunk.

As far as me getting a proper rip on a Dread, it's a moot point because I decided to stay safe and order a Wild. It'll be here in 2 weeks.

It's an excellent bike, you'll not be disappointed. In a way, it splits the difference between a druid and a cresty.

 

[Lightme]

Stating a pro can rip on the bike really doesn't prove anything other than pro's can rip on just about anything. Give them the base model anything and they will kick our arses on our expensive as shit bikes with all the gizmo's.

Now im not saying the druid is not capable. Surely it is. But unless the travel is terrible you are not going to make up for a chunk less more travel with high pivot. It just aint happening. With that said. It has to get very chunky before a modern 150-160 bike is starts outgunned and starts holding somebody back compared to a 180/180 bike. I would say double black super gnarly trails is where the 180mm bike has an advantage when comparing equal skill riders.

So,,,,, for most normal riding and most riders the druid will be fit for purpose and will not limit the rider. On the opposite side to this the 180/180 bike wont be as good on the easier trails as the tighter crisper 150/160 bike..... So the full time 180/180 guy pays the price on easier trails for too much squish.

I personally am a proponent of buying the bike to suit the trails you like riding most. For me that's the double black chunk fest. Give me the 180/180mm bike any day over the 150/160 bike. For most the 150/160 bike is the best bike for them as they are not chasing the chunk.

Straw man argument. I’m saying I’m not a pro and I can rip on this bike harder than I have done with bikes with 20mm more rear wheel travel. There’s more to it than just raw travel. We have a lot of “double black chunk fests here” and this gobbles them up. Realistically, more than my v1 Crestline. This information was validated 2 hours ago. I have however gone with a firm coil setup and a 170mm fork.

 

[Red Peekay]

Reach: 425, 445, 461, 481
Stack: 635, 648, 669, 682
HA: 63
Rear center: 434, 449, 463, 478

Interesting. I had a Core ordered and it arrived too late for me to pick up (mid Dec) and I'm now in Canada till end March. So the LBS moved the bike on (I had only paid a deposit).

So now looking at the eDreadnought which is where the heart was last year anyway (coming off a Santa Cruz Nomad). I had settled on the S3 (used to be 6'2", but now more like 6'1" after a bit of shrinkage ) so looking at these numbers the S3 Core reach is 467 vs 461 but the stack is 662 vs 669. Sounds like the S3 Dreadie will be tighter in the cockpit but higher stack.

So do I still run with an S3 or push to the S4? Unfortunately, not able to "trial ride" any of these when I get back to Oz.

 

[Plummet]

Straw man argument. I’m saying I’m not a pro and I can rip on this bike harder than I have done with bikes with 20mm more rear wheel travel. There’s more to it than just raw travel. We have a lot of “double black chunk fests here” and this gobbles them up. Realistically, more than my v1 Crestline. This information was validated 2 hours ago. I have however gone with a firm coil setup and a 170mm fork.

This is a discussion that will just go around in circles. If you like the 150mm high pivot great. Go and ride the hell out of it and enjoy it. It certainly suits a certain riding style rider and isnt for everyone.

I'm actually moving out of my high pivot bikes because I dislike the less connected feel of that rear center moving that far backward. It doesn't suit my style as well.

 

[Lightme]

This is a discussion that will just go around in circles. If you like the 150mm high pivot great. Go and ride the hell out of it and enjoy it. It certainly suits a certain riding style rider and isnt for everyone.

I'm actually moving out of my high pivot bikes because I dislike the less connected feel of that rear center moving that far backward. It doesn't suit my style as well.

So if it could go round in circles, then you concede that the discussion never made sense in the first place? My point exactly. Horses for courses, to some extent.

 

[Plummet]

So if it could go round in circles, then you concede that the discussion never made sense in the first place? My point exactly. Horses for courses, to some extent.

Well if it where true that less travel worked as well as more travel at the top end of track difficulty then all dh racers would be racing on enduro bikes or trail bikes....... they dont.... why? travel matters when its very chunky.

Of course there can be badly designed bikes with more travel and well designed bikes with less travel. The Crestline is not a badly designed bike. It kicked fricken arse.

If a 150mm bike works well for you on all the terrain you ride on. All that really tells me is that your not riding the stuff that it doesn't work well on.

Anyway, this is all moot. Thr only way to prove the point would be to ride together and discover each other's limits then we would find the reason for the discrepancy in our opinions.

 

[Lightme]

Well if it where true that less travel worked as well as more travel at the top end of track difficulty then all dh racers would be racing on enduro bikes or trail bikes....... they dont.... why? travel matters when its very chunky.

Of course there can be badly designed bikes with more travel and well designed bikes with less travel. The Crestline is not a badly designed bike. It kicked fricken arse.

If a 150mm bike works well for you on all the terrain you ride on. All that really tells me is that your not riding the stuff that it doesn't work well on.

Anyway, this is all moot. Thr only way to prove the point would be to ride together and discover each other's limits then we would find the reason for the discrepancy in our opinions.

You're exactly wrong. This discussion is about whether a 150mm bike was always strictly a "trail" bike and wasn't intended to be used as an "enduro" bike. The proof;

Rhys Verner *chooses* to race a 130mm Druid for racing when he could ride a Dreadnought
Dan Booker *chooses* to race a Bronson over a Nomad or Megatower
Charlie Murray *chooses* to race on a Stumpjumper over an Enduro
Alex Rudeau *chooses* to race a Meta V5 over a Meta SX

These are the best of the best and are just the names that come to mind. Throw Jack Moir in there too. What's common among them? A 10mm longer fork. Which is what most commoners like myself do.

"All that really tells me is that your not riding the stuff that it doesn't work well on."
I ride literal national level DH courses on my 150mm bike (Cannonball, Ourimbah....) and do alright on them.

All your opinion tells me is that your lack of knowledge probably matches your skill, and you feel the need to overcompensate with travel as a crutch.

Sorry but bullsh*t opinions by arrogant wannabes preaching on bike categories really annoys me.

 

[Plummet]

You're exactly wrong. This discussion is about whether a 150mm bike was always strictly a "trail" bike and wasn't intended to be used as an "enduro" bike. The proof;

Rhys Verner *chooses* to race a 130mm Druid for racing when he could ride a Dreadnought
Dan Booker *chooses* to race a Bronson over a Nomad or Megatower
Charlie Murray *chooses* to race on a Stumpjumper over an Enduro
Alex Rudeau *chooses* to race a Meta V5 over a Meta SX

These are the best of the best and are just the names that come to mind. Throw Jack Moir in there too. What's common among them? A 10mm longer fork. Which is what most commoners like myself do.

"All that really tells me is that your not riding the stuff that it doesn't work well on."
I ride literal national level DH courses on my 150mm bike (Cannonball, Ourimbah....) and do alright on them.

All your opinion tells me is that your lack of knowledge probably matches your skill, and you feel the need to overcompensate with travel as a crutch.

Sorry but bullsh*t opinions by arrogant wannabes preaching on bike categories really annoys me.

Hehehe....
Well my enduro and dh race results say otherwise. In the last 10 races i've podiumed in 8 of them.

If you are ever in North island NZ then look me up and we will ride. If you can rip nat dh courses then it sounds like it would be an entertaining session.

 

[Lightme]

Hehehe....
Well my enduro and dh race results say otherwise. In the last 10 races i've podiumed in 8 of them.

If you are ever in North island NZ then look me up and we will ride. If you can rip nat dh courses then it sounds like it would be an entertaining session.

Sounds good! I’ve only ridden QT in NZ. Well done on the results.

 

[Plummet]

Sounds good! I’ve only ridden QT in NZ. Well done on the results.

QT is awesome! There's a reason the pro's flock there in the off season. I was there last year.

Stand out was hike a bike to the top of Ben Lamond and riding the ridge line down. A stunning day

 

[Lightme]

Can’t beat that QT view!

 

[jbrown15]

Having just come off of the latest Orbea Wild setup 180/170mm travel I was a little worried about the Druid having less travel. Mines setup 170/150mm, I still ride all the same blacks and double black trails without any issues.

But that doesn’t mean I’m not looking forward to the Dreadnought I have coming….lol

We have a demo AmFlow at our shop, and I’ve ridden it back to back with my Druid. The AmFlow is a trail bike. The Druid is easily in the Enduro category, but just a little less travel in the rear.

 

[Plummet]

Having just come off of the latest Orbea Wild setup 180/170mm travel I was a little worried about the Druid having less travel. Mines setup 170/150mm, I still ride all the same blacks and double black trails without any issues.

But that doesn’t mean I’m not looking forward to the Dreadnought I have coming….lol

We have a demo AmFlow at our shop, and I’ve ridden it back to back with my Druid. The AmFlow is a trail bike. The Druid is easily in the Enduro category, but just a little less travel in the rear.

Yeah, The way i figure riding a capable shorter travel bike in bigger terrain is you can do it, But you end up riding closer to your limut and get beaten up more than if you had more travel. Also every rider/bike combo has an upper limit, a more capable rider can take the shorter travel bike further than a less capable rider.

I have a couple of really capable mates that enjoy enduro riding shorter travel bikes 150/170mm. They kick arse on those bikes on those tracks. One guy will always beat me in enduro races by 2-3 seconds per stage on his shorter travel bike. He rips on that bike on enduro stages. Then when we hit into the terrain i like best. Super chunk and tech thats generally a step above enduro racing, all of a sudden he isnt pulling away from me any more, he starts to hold me up. Then we go then next step up again into the sillyness which a 180/180 bike is in the zone and i'm pulling a gap. Then next step up again into some BIG features and the 150/170 guy is like, i think i'll pass on those features.

I've also done multiple days lads mtb trips of real chunky tech and the 150/160 guys just get more beaten up and beaten up as the days roll on. They are just taking impact, more roughness and it takes its toll.

So yeah, riding big terrain on 150mm bike is definitely possible but if that is your primary focus, the 150mm bike is a bit undergunned for extended chunk munching. Thats where the bigger travel bikes are better.

But.... if you are primarily ripping enduro style tracks and less tech than that then yeha the 150/170mm bike will be the business.

 

[Highland Wheels]

Surely anything more than Enduro is really just DH bike spec

 

[Plummet]

Surely anything more than Enduro is really just DH bike spec

Yeah, nah!

There's a place in between where the 180mm bikes are in the zone. Do we call that the freeride zone? not sure.

Generally those trails are slower steeper and more janky than fast and chunky with big jumps dh but they will have bigger features or some victory or death stuff that enduro wont have. Generally they are natural old hiking trails or bootleg trails at the bike park made by locals. Sometimes they are advanced trails with features which are cool to pick of one by one but you wouldn't want to race it.



Hike a bike slow jank.

Awesome advanced trail with rock roll, drops features. Fun to ride. Would send many people to hospital if raced.

Helidrop top of mountiain jank.

Entertaining steep log ride.

 

[booostin]

Has anyone actually gotten to throw a leg over a druid core and an rs181? Love my druid core but sometimes feels like I could use a little more travel in the back on bigger hits, debating if I grab a plaid out of the next run or an edread. Would lean towards the dread but really appealing that the crestline is a frame only as I bought the cheapest build core just to take all the parts off it and swap them for my own

 

[Ribinrobin]

Interesting. I had a Core ordered and it arrived too late for me to pick up (mid Dec) and I'm now in Canada till end March. So the LBS moved the bike on (I had only paid a deposit).

So now looking at the eDreadnought which is where the heart was last year anyway (coming off a Santa Cruz Nomad). I had settled on the S3 (used to be 6'2", but now more like 6'1" after a bit of shrinkage ) so looking at these numbers the S3 Core reach is 467 vs 461 but the stack is 662 vs 669. Sounds like the S3 Dreadie will be tighter in the cockpit but higher stack.

So do I still run with an S3 or push to the S4? Unfortunately, not able to "trial ride" any of these when I get back to Oz.

Think i replied to you before in another thread but 6,2/6,1 here and S3 all day. The bikes do feel long, your call though! i havent rode a S4 but i wouldnt even entertain the idea after riding a S3. However im the same with XL's i wont own another one after costly mistakes trying make them fit me better

 

[Suns_PSD]

Has anyone actually gotten to throw a leg over a druid core and an rs181? Love my druid core but sometimes feels like I could use a little more travel in the back on bigger hits, debating if I grab a plaid out of the next run or an edread. Would lean towards the dread but really appealing that the crestline is a frame only as I bought the cheapest build core just to take all the parts off it and swap them for my own

There is a 170/ 180 Orbea Wild Avinox being introduced soon, that might be a good fit for you as well.

I really like the Crestie and the frame only is a significant advantage. However, I paid less for my full Wild CF build than a Crestie frame.