it is coming soon. Atherton, Merida and nukeproof all making bike that will use gen 2 motor. Likely others as well. I hear (and this could be rumors) the motor bolt pattern will be the same. Also a new 1000wh battery. I also hear more power. I hope they fix the issues with the first gen (Speed sensor, water ingress, seals are too tight hampering efficiency etc). If they fix the issues, im in
Avinox M2
- Thread starter Riggus
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merida? are sure? this year?
thats would be interesting
Highland Wheels
Well-known member
New batteries are coming along with whatever motor(s) arrive, new screen as well and from what I've been told they should all be backwards compatible
Any more details?
My only data point was that the Crestline still had the same 2 battery size options, and nothing more.
Also, I don't know much about battery tech but I just assumed they were already using the most up to date battery tech that was commercially available.
Highland Wheels
Well-known member
Just have to wait. I was told Sea Otter Classic is when they would announce but I feel that's maybe been moved up since there are a few of "new" Avinox powered bikes coming that don't actually list what motor they are using.
Batteries are due later this year, bigger but same form as current ones, apparently.
Batteries are due later this year, bigger but same form as current ones, apparently.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
There was another Avinox conversation I can't find but they alluded to 800w capacity in the size of the current 600, and 1000w the size of current 800. Weight unknown. That their goal is more motor power and they need to supply the capacity to maintain expected range. I don't suspect weight is a big concern of thiers and frankly all taken together this is what the majoirty of the public is asking for, though not necessarily the dorks like us that talk about it all day.
From this convo, worth a full read:
Vital asking Avinox....
What is the reality of making even lighter batteries with better energy density today? In 10 years' time? Does the technology exist, or are major innovations required to really move to the next level?
Batteries will continue to improve in terms of capacity and energy density, but advancements will be more gradual than we've seen in the past decade. We anticipate that new cell chemistry and updated cells will gain more capacity while remaining the same form factor and weight - but the increase in capacity will be minimal, at least for the next 2-3 years. For instance, we do not expect cells to double their capacity, or to see battery weight or size cut in half - it will be a smaller scale than that. As the trend of high power-density battery supply continues to grow, rather than seeing great leaps in capacity or energy density, we will see the power choices diversify, from replaceable batteries to range extenders, etc.
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I am retired now, but I come from an engineering and manufacturing background. I just don’t see enough time has elapsed for Avinox to come out with a new motor AND for manufactures to sign a supply contract with Avinox AND engineer/test/certify a bike built around it, then release in 2026. It seems far more realistic that Avinox got these guys signed up for the M1/battery combo for their new 2026 bikes. Additionally; Bosch and others are playing catch up right now so there is zero need to come out with and M2 motor. Avinox’s goal is to cut into Bosch and others market share which for 2026 they have already acomplished.
In 2027 we might see some changes.
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Are people thinking DJI is going to come out with a new motor every year like it’s an iPhone or something?
I guess it is the unknown, they've been pretty aggresive with improvements with drones, the avinox gave us a nice screen, fast charging, big power all in one go for the base model where as it feels like bosch could do that but would rather drip feed these features over a couple years to maximise their return
Ok so now who has a business/sales background?
lol jk.
But yeah the Avinox was introduced July 2024. Dji releases a new action cam almost every year and drones every 1-2 years. It’s not too surprising theyll have something new mid 2026.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
I think it depends on the degree of "new" if something does release in April.... a few minor tweaks to internals seems plausible. No?
Everyone is focusing on hardware, could also be a big OTA update like the one mid last year. That was like dropping in an entirely new motor.
I've been wasting A LOT of time at work reading about bike related stuff. I feel a lot has been blown out of proportion as happens on the interweb, but it's fun to read. We'll know soon for sure. Someone needs to get Avinox updates on Polymarket, put your money where your mouth is!
My suspicion is the rumors are related to hearing that Avinox is working on a new motor. I’m sure they began working on a new design as soon as they finished the last one. I just assume DJI needs to get more than one year of sales to offset all the expenses. Plus, I don’t see the need for a new motor from Avinox in 2026. It’s generally considered the best available now. Seems like 2027 would be better timing.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
Their position in the emtb world, one with a much different product cycle and as a component supplier rather than a singular manufacturer, I would think would make their approach different? Outside of Amflow of course.
A new motor every year +/- would go against almost every bike manufacturer's current approach. I'm all for bucking the trend but Giant, Spesh, etc have way more control over the market than Avinox does, today at least.
What I think would work is selling updated, backwards compatible components a la carte. Why can't a motor/battery/touch screen be like a SRAM derailleur or i9 hub?
slickrock
Well-known member
Release cadence is hard to predict with a strong ambitious deep pocket new player. They've probably just scratched the surface in terms of sales. We are enamored that this motor has found its way into boutique brands like Crestline where there are only 99 of them, dabbling with frames from Australia, or panting for what Atherton could do, but until we see these motors on Norcos, Giants, Treks, etc., they are still behind in the market.
Also, from what I recall, the M1s were bouncing around in 2024 in pretty much the same state as the GA version on the Amflows. If you count pre-launch phase, it's more like a year and a half. And DJI has been very active on this very forum at the get go, and so found out earlier on the flaws of their platform, and so an engineering response can be swift. The time to make changes is now, before everything gets set in stone and collapses into a longer release cycle.
Who's to say what the release cadence will be after M2? My hope, and it's a really big hope, is that after M2, they will put efforts into releasing an MGU. Then nobody will be able to touch them.
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Personally I find it very unlikely that we will see the 600wh become 800wh and 800wh to 1kwh for the same size and weight. What this means is we would need to see roughly a 25% jump in cell density for the 800wh pack and 33% for the 600wh. Also worth noting the density % should match for both, if the 800wh sees a 25% jump so should the 600wh.
Right now we know DJI uses the LG M58, rated at 20.88wh nominal, 20wh minimum (looks like DJI claims the min spec for their batteries). Using the 800wh pack with it's more believable 25% jump they would need to use roughly a 7ah 21700. While companies have mentioned a possible cell in their future lineup year(s) down the road nothing has even been spotted in sampling testing, much less full production to the public yet.
What we do have though is 6.5ah 23.4wh cells, FEB has just started sending out samples, and Molicel also has a cell expected Q1. Both are very very new, leading to my skepticism another .5ah will happen within months. I find it way more likely these cells or ones around that capacity will be used in any upcoming battery release. What this would mean is the 600wh would become a 702wh (690wh min claimed) and the 800wh becoming 936wh (920wh min claimed). While retaining the same battery size and a very small weight gain, 30g / 40g.
Because we know DJI runs a 36v 10s system we can pretty much say for sure a 1000wh battery isn't going to happen without a huge weight and size penalty due to the current 40 21700 cells max design. If they did want to they would need another parallel group for 50 total cells. And assuming it could fit would bring the weight estimated roughly to 4.65kg, 1kwh claimed for the current cells, 1150wh claimed for M65A's. Unless DJI goes up in voltage, but I find this unlikely for the time being especially if they want to maintain compatibility with the M1.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
Avinox's stated timeline was 2-3 years for this advancement, other than that you said a lot of numbers so I tend to believe you.
I would note that the cells I mention above would be around a 15% jump in capacity. Avinox seems to have been more speaking on larger jumps, as right after that he mentioned they don't expect a doubling of capacity. So with that in mind 15% would be more of a minimal jump than previously seen. It's also worth noting the cell they currently use is well over 3 years old now. I cannot think of a reason not to move to these cells, unless supply is super limited.
Rando_12345
E*POWAH Master
Agree with Bengy22 on the batteries, not an expert at all, but having looked into this recently, basically FEB just announced their new cells last month, so there is a possibility they come to bikes this year, anything beyond that 15% jump seems unlikely.
For the motor, interviews with some influencers like Rob and Sam back in the 2024 launch said they tried 8 (I think) variations of the motor over a year pre-launch starting from terrible to great. My guess is that DJI/avinox continued to refine the motor with small changes to reduce the noise, maybe some cheaper parts/manufacturing and will release that 18months later.
For DJI, I bought their neo drone at launch, one year later they launched the neo 2 with better battery, range, speed, tracking, screens, functionality, image quality etc etc. For effectively the same price... Their R&D really doesn't play around. That said, I wouldn't expect much changes to the avinox motor beyond the next upgrade (same for the drone).
For the motor, interviews with some influencers like Rob and Sam back in the 2024 launch said they tried 8 (I think) variations of the motor over a year pre-launch starting from terrible to great. My guess is that DJI/avinox continued to refine the motor with small changes to reduce the noise, maybe some cheaper parts/manufacturing and will release that 18months later.
For DJI, I bought their neo drone at launch, one year later they launched the neo 2 with better battery, range, speed, tracking, screens, functionality, image quality etc etc. For effectively the same price... Their R&D really doesn't play around. That said, I wouldn't expect much changes to the avinox motor beyond the next upgrade (same for the drone).
dotcodotuk
New Member
Say that again, in words that make sense this time?
How quickly do you think bike design can pivot around a structural change such as a motor mount? If I'm selling something that has an Avinox in it now, I'd want to be able to slot the new motor in the frame, give it a new paint job and call it a new model.
I would think theyd keep to the M1 for this year though excited to see what comes at sea otter
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
said exactly the same as you…
dotcodotuk
New Member
Not really. What Wah is alluding to are bike manufacturers not being able to sell their new model as someone with a current-gen bike wants to upgrade their motor instead of buying a new bike. Hence 'need to sell new bikes, not someone else's motor'.
Apart from that being a huge win for anyone buying those bikes and ensuring that previous-gen frames still sell, it means a guaranteed upgrade path for owners and helps to reassure buyers about the lack of long-term promises of support from Avinox.
Look at Forbidden, as a good example. Hardly setting the world alight with their Druid and Dreadnought, but they had a loyal following for a good reason and sold decent numbers, but now seemingly everyone and their dog wants a Druid E and you can't keep them on the shelf.
If the M2 motor uses a totally different mounting system which requires a redesign of the frame, Forbidden are going to be somewhat miffed. But knowing the team and how canny they are, I'd bet money on them having commitment from Avinox that the new motor fits the current frame and they designed accordingly.
A brand like Forbidden doesn't have the budget to retool every five minutes. In fact one of the alleged reasons they went to the new colourways on their frames was how much money they save on being able to reuse parts across multiple SKUs instead of having spares for every colourway.
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
yet they would not sell their frames anymore when the new motor had a new mounting pattern, as they would need to invest in new moulds to accommodate for that. therefore keeping their mounting pattern is essential for them when avinox is deciding on a faster update cycle than the current 4-5 years industry standard
and that’s what i read between the lines in the original posting…
Idk why there’s so much skepticism about a new motor lol.
Here’s a nugget. All the current Avinox bikes websites list the torque of the avinox specifically, but crestline site does not.
Crestline site says “Peak output now exceeds anything to date, alongside plenty of torque.”
It does not say the 105nm like every other Avinox site which could be because it will be more on the next motor and that info cannot be released yet.
Here’s a nugget. All the current Avinox bikes websites list the torque of the avinox specifically, but crestline site does not.
Crestline site says “Peak output now exceeds anything to date, alongside plenty of torque.”
It does not say the 105nm like every other Avinox site which could be because it will be more on the next motor and that info cannot be released yet.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
I believe if manufacturers can only sell new frames because it has a new motor in it then that's a problem with the frame manufacturer. I know it's not apple to apples, but we don't buy a new frame bc a new derailleur came out, we just swap the component(s). No reason a motor can't be treated that way. For sure shimano helped frame manufactures sell more/new frames by changing mounting points, who gets screwed is the customer. If someone like Avinox can maintain mounting points/form factor then bike manufactures can continue to design around that. Then like a regular mtb, most will probably upgrade an emtb frame ONLY every few years and manage motor upgrades independently. In that way I feel everyone wins but manufactures win less so they probably won't lean that way.
The display size would also have to be standardized. Not saying this is a big deal but...
doochenozzle
Member
You’re thinking like a German or American engineer. The DJI stuff has happened so quickly and the motors been around a bit longer with Amflow. But yes there will be updates in 2026. Arguably no one needs or wants them (more power more weight) but other small improvements will be part of it.
Purple parznip
Active member
Commencal will,i have ordered one,delivery late april,im sooooo excited!
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