Finally, some awareness begins.

[Fangs2k]

What's to stop gravel bikes going faster than 20mph, which they do all the time? Your post contradicts itself. You assert your road bike will do 25-30mph on a flat, why shouldn't an ebike do that?

My Levo SL does?

That aside, the ‘should legal pedelecs have a higher assist limit’ is a well done argument, this thread is about how illegal e-bike/electric motorbike use is often poorly reported in written and digital media, leading to confusion and unnecessary angst towards legal EMTBs.

 

[Zero cool]

My road bike will do that speed on the flat when I have a nice open road that has a speed limit in excess of 20mph and not some narrow Singletrack climb or a trail centre with families and novice riders. Also there’s no way in hell that I can ride my road bike up a hill at 15mph.

I just want people to be able to ride their e-bikes on trails without all the limitations that they have on e-bike use on trails that the US has. 15.5mph seems plenty fast enough for going up and along on trails. If the speeds for the motor assist go up then we’ll be looking at people banning them on public land.

Nowhere have I made any straw man arguments about crazy high speeds like 60mph.

We’re mountain bikers, in the grand scheme of off road users we’re down near the bottom below landowners, horse riders and walkers who’ve spend decades trying to restrict where and when we are allowed to actually ride our bikes. It’s taken a lot of campaigning and work by a good number of people to get us the (rather) limited access that we have to the countryside as it is. The sad fact of the matter is that there are more walkers with the time and willing to complain, join parish councils and get us banned from woods, paths, etc than there are MTBers willing to fight for our rights. The same goes for horse riders (who I have no problem with), they might not be as numerous, but they tend to be wealthier and have much better connections that us and can, again get things like trails and dirt jump spots shut down for us. Also a lot of the landowners are horse riders and it doesn’t take much for them to stop turning a blind eye to our fun in the woods. And many of these people while have seen the new reporting “dangerous e-bikers” already.

Maybe everything could be solved with a combination of higher speed restrictions and everyone on an e-bike being courteous, polite and friendly, but there will ALWAYS be people out there (on both sides) who will act like dickheads and get it ruined for everyone.

I’d love to be able to razz up a hill at 20mph on my bike, but I’d also like to be able to drive my car at 100mph when safe to do so on motorways at times, but alas we have these laws for a reason and the reason is that too many people would not be sensible.

 

[LeftItLancs]

The counter-arguments in this thread are based on strawman extremes. Nobody is peddling an ebike to 60+mph, lets be realistic.

The realist bit being it's already happening all over the UK, and particularly in Lancashire, where I live.

Police chases in excess off 50 MPH etc are becoming more frequent, and as has been pointed out on this thread people not familiar with ebikes tend to lump them all in the same category whether they are pedelec or unrestricted and that is where the problem lies.

 

[Astro66]

Does literally every thread need bombarding with a "Amflow is the best no comparison" just over and over and over again?

Calm down dude. I own the bike and motor you want to buy. I'm just doing a comparison between it and another bike I own. The Lekker I also own, is a better commuter E-bike than both of those bikes. That doesn't make me a Lekker religious extremist.

Different bikes are better in different use cases. The Merida is more planted going downhill. But that's not my majority riding. Not sure why you are getting so upset ?

Most people in this forum like others expressing their personal experiences with bikes they are about to buy. Infact many do an entire thread for input. I have not said a bad word about the Merida or the Shimano motor. I bought 2 of them. Still own one.

Here's my 3 bikes. All are great bikes in their different use cases. Hopefully I can say that without you losing your shizzle .......

BTW. All 3 can be quickly adjusted to give me regional differences. Infact the Lekker has a button on the handlebar to go from 25kph, to derestricted.

Whilst I am 100% an advocate of 25kph in shared areas, like on mountain trails. 25kph limit on the road, IMO, can be a traffic hazard, and more dangerous to the rider.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Point being, an MTB drivetrain is going to top out around 45. 45 as manufacturers seem to be setting in NZ now seems like a good number. But 45 is real lot for kids on bike paths though - and that'd be my concern with not having limits, around Brisbane suburbia for example.

My Merida with a Shimano motor came out of the shop with assist cut-off set to 45km/h.
Yes - I am in NZ.
No - I don't hoon around ripping up trails and destroying the wilderness.
Yes - I think that the restrictions imposed on eBikes overseas are too low

With that said, I am unfamiliar with laws that apply in places other than NZ. I don't profess to know more than the "experts". But those that I know here in NZ who have bikes that are less restricted than those overseas don't do silly stuff with them and personally I don't see myself as any different to any other eMTB rider either on the trails or on the roads.

The rare times that I do actually ride at +45km/h I am spinning out just past the limit anyway, so it's only on a particularly extreme DH run that I'd pedal beyond the limiter.

I think 45km/h is actually the sweet spot - it gives a good amount of assistance through to the limits of both rider and motor, without delving into motorcycle realms.
If I look at my average ride stats, I'd say I still average around 16-20km/h with a peak just over 50km/h on a hard-out DH (lucky if it would be any more than a few seconds at best, at that speed)

TL;DR - My bike cuts out at 45km/h. I don't think that is a bad thing and it's probably the best compromise between capability and legality.

 

[Astro66]

BTW. This is my E-Moto. And this is what people should be classing those electric bikes with throttles into. And police should be making sure they the riders are licenced, and the bike is registered.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

BTW. This is my E-Moto. And this is what people should be classing those electric bikes with throttles into. And police should be making sure they the riders are licenced, and the bike is registered.

View attachment 167750

Interesting take. Where do you stand on something like this?

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Interesting take. Where do you stand on something like this?
View attachment 167751

Whilst I am not Astro and you're asking him, I am unsure what a trail bike that's not road legal where I am from has to do with anything. It's neither an eBike nor an eMotorcycle.
It's not something you could hope to use on a mountainbike trail or a bike lane. Here, you'd need to get a Warrant of Fitness, Registration and have at least a learner's licence (depending on displacement and power output etc).
It has no lights, not indicators, no licence plates etc. It's a straight out trail bike that's petrol powered and not for on-road or bike lane use.

 

[Account Deleted]

Interesting take. Where do you stand on something like this?

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

It

Whilst I am not Astro and you're asking him, I am unsure what a trail bike that's not road legal where I am from has to do with anything. It's neither an eBike nor an eMotorcycle.
It's not something you could hope to use on a mountainbike trail or a bike lane. Here, you'd need to get a Warrant of Fitness, Registration and have at least a learner's licence (depending on displacement and power output etc).
It has no lights, not indicators, no licence plates etc. It's a straight out trail bike that's petrol powered and not for on-road or bike lane use.

Is an offroad vehicle, made specifically for offroad / mx use. It should only ever be ridden in the bush, farm or on an mx track.

Ofcourse Its not registered, or need a license to ride, purchase or use. The engine is not restricted or speed limited in any way other than what the manufacturer deams is a reliable output for that much displacement.

But if it say had an electric motor instead of 2t, or pedals instead of pegs (still designed specifically for offroad use), then it should be? Im really confused. What about junior riders? Do we need to invent a new license category for under 17s? Does that mean it needs to be fitted with indicators and brake lights?

Off road vehicles shouldn't be subject to road laws, because they are designed specifically for offroad use. They shouldn't be restricted to suit road laws unless the vehicle is specifically intended for road use.

But if it was a mountain bike, only ridden ever ridden in the bush, it still must comply with road rules? Its such a confusing position

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

It

Is an offroad vehicle, made specifically for offroad / mx use. It should only ever be ridden in the bush, farm or on an mx track.

Ofcourse Its not registered, or need a license to ride, purchase or use. The engine is not restricted or speed limited in any way other than what the manufacturer deams is a reliable output for that much displacement.

But if it say had an electric motor instead of 2t, or pedals instead of pegs (still designed specifically for offroad use), then it should be? Im really confused. What about junior riders? Do we need to invent a new license category for under 17s? Does that mean it needs to be fitted with indicators and brake lights?

Off road vehicles shouldn't be subject to road laws, because they are designed specifically for offroad use. They shouldn't be restricted to suit road laws unless the vehicle is specifically intended for road use.

But if it was a mountain bike, only ridden ever ridden in the bush, it still must comply with road rules? Its such a confusing position

Yeah, nah...I'm not going to play your silly game.

 

[Astro66]

Interesting take. Where do you stand on something like this?
View attachment 167751

I owned several dirt bikes from age 6 to 25. There really isn't anywhere left to legally ride them within 100km of where I live. So I don't see the point of them anymore. They are noisy, smokey and high maintenance. And I understand why people don't want them around people. Sydney is much more densely populated than 40 years ago, when I had a dirt bike. So I would feel inconsiderate riding it near people and their homes.

What I find amazing is that I can now ride my EMTB in The Royal National Park in Sydney. I can even ride it in Centennial Park, right in the centre of Sydney, a stones throw from my home. 40 years ago you were not even allowed to ride a bicycle in The Royal National Park, though as kids we always did illegally on our BMXs. The Rangers seem to not police it too much.

If having the EU regulations of 25kph on EMTBs allows more areas to be opened up to EMTBs. I am more than happy to correctly region my EMTBs when riding these areas. I'm just grateful that these areas have been opened up.

But I live in reality and want to be a good community member, and understand, some people are fearful of bicycles and e-motos speeding past them in shared areas.

And reading your posts. You seem more concerned with your own needs and wants. And that is perfectly OK to think that way. We are all different, and different makes the world go round.

 

[Account Deleted]

I guess, you just don't realise it until you have lived it. I saw the nanny state for what it was after being forced to take what turned out to be a near fatal injection. And then being ostracised, discriminated, refused entry and generally treated like a piece shit, because having a second dose was state mandated, and i literally had doctors signing Immunisation Registry document stating I had a near fatal reaction after the first dose.

Perhaps it was karma.

Sincerely, your friendly pleb cuck.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Perhaps it was karma.

Sincerely, your friendly pleb cuck.

Good one. I had to chuckle

 

[Ndanger]

Is this where "old men" go when there are no children to yell at to "stay off the grass". I guess you can always throw a stick at the spokes. As an American comedian once said... anyone going slower than me is an idiot and anyone faster is an A-hole

 

[LeftItLancs]

According to google, last year, consumers in the UK purchased approximately 1,500,000 standard cycles, ebike sales were approximately 135,000, a 9% market share.

Pedelec legislation in the UK is based on an average (average speed etc), enabling pedelecs to be classified as standard cycles, and thereby granting them the same privilege and access.

The reality is the vast majority of standard cycle users are not bombing about off-road, displaying their riding skills.

Pedelec legislation is not a government conspiracy aimed specifically at restricting eMTB users, who represent a small minority anyway, and the sense of entitlement displayed by a small minority of eMTB riders does no favours at all to the broader cycling community.

 

[LeftItLancs]

Not pedelecs.

This isn't about entitlement. This is about real life practicalities. It's very simple. Ebikes provide greater accessibility and capability than analogue bikes. However, this comes at a compromise of weight and mechanical drag. Where the motor assistance (the ENTIRE point of an ebike over analogue) is restricted the extra capability immediately becomes a penalising liability. I assert again that ebikes NEED permanant assistance. I concede that above a speed threshold the assistance should only be enough to counter the liability. That's it. I don't see that as entitled nor unreasonable.

Applying your own logic assist already provides that option up to 15.5 mph, after which it cuts out. The current legislation is based on an average speed of a standard cycle, ensuring pedelecs have the same access as standard cycles, and so what on earth is your argument?

You just want to go faster than 15.5 mph with assist, and then maintain that speed with assist.

Buy an unrestricted ebike, register it as a moped, wear an appropriate helmet and insure it, ride it where it is legal, and the problem is instantly solved.

 

[LeftItLancs]

Not pedelecs.

That's the second time you have misquoted my posts, I was responding to the thread and the premise of the thread, which is the confusion between pedelecs and ebikes in general.

 

[Zero cool]

@WyeEMTB79 while the US doesn’t have a blanket ban or legislation on e-bike use and limits, they do have a massive backlash against e-bikes in general being used on regular MTB trails, something that the UK and Europe doesn’t have. When has copying anything the US does been a good idea?

To agree with Olly Wilkins, I never see w-bike hate in the real world, pretty much the only time notice it’s a thing when I read the PinkBike comments section. Sure I’ve heard people commenting on dicks riding e-bikes, but I’ve heard more complains about dicks on DH bikes hammering up behind slower riders on downhill sections and dicks on XC bikes hammering up behind slower riders on the flats or climbs of a trail centre at the weekend shouting ‘Strava!’.

The fact of the matter is no one needs their e-bike to have a higher cut off than 15.5mph/25kph because even that’s quicker uphill than most riders and it’s about right on the flat for most trails. You don’t NEED it higher, you just WANT it higher and that will result in stricter rules around where you (and everyone else) can ride their e-bikes.

You want a faster road bike then tax and insure it like a moped.

The UK and European cycling world doesn’t want or need there to be a big divide between regular bikes and e-bikes. We all just want nice bikes to have fun on.

 

[Pablo79]

Applying your own logic assist already provides that option up to 15.5 mph, after which it cuts out. The current legislation is based on an average speed of a standard cycle, ensuring pedelecs have the same access as standard cycles, and so what on earth is your argument?

You just want to go faster than 15.5 mph with assist, and then maintain that speed with assist.

Buy an unrestricted ebike, register it as a moped, wear an appropriate helmet and insure it, ride it where it is legal, and the problem is instantly solved.

But is that actually an option

 

[Fangs2k]

Did I quote you?

Does it matter? You don’t need to answer, it doesn’t.

It’s an open public forum, if you don’t want people you didnt ‘quote’ to read and respond to your posts, as I note others have done as well, then best not post at all.