"Stop calling them e-bikes": BBC corrects inaccurate coverage claiming powerful electric motorbike was an e-bike | road.cc "Stop calling them e-bikes": BBC corrects inaccurate coverage claiming powerful electric motorbike was an e-bike
Finally, some awareness begins.
- Thread starter Zimmerframe
- Start date
As a complete coincidence, I wrote to the BBC early August on this exact subject asking them to differentiate in reporting between legal e-bikes, illegal e-bikes and e-motorbikes as I'm fed up of the generic 'e-bike' description being applied to everything.
The lines do get blurred though, a legal e-bike can become an illegal one via de-restricting and just one look at the de-restriction section on here shows you how popular that is.
Is it ok to have a bike that’s only ‘a little bit illegal’?!
If it is de-restricted, it's illegal - it's as simple as that. Easy to check by the police / other...just pedal it past 15.5mph and if still assisted, scrap it immediately. No if/buts/questions, simply scrap it.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek, lots of folks will rightly call out a Sur-Ron being ridden in public or an electric motorbike like the one in the OP, but many seem to have no problem with a UK Pedelec e-bike in ‘NZ mode’, for example.
I tend to agree with you, the UK law is the law and the assist limit is the limit, as much as people don’t like it.
I still think it’s worth pointing out poor reporting though.
And the BBC would have no idea about any of that, so not salient to anything much. Friend of mine is a helicopter instructor. There was a crash on the Isle of Wight last week on the exact type he flies. The BBC reported it as a lesson gone wrong with airbags visibly deploying on the skids. He told me it wasn't a lesson, it was a ten minute pleasure flight & the airbags were floats that pop out automatically in the event of a water landing. Point being is when the media intrude into a technical area you know about, it's often true that they expose themselves as generalists who frequently don't put much effort into the detail of a topic they're covering. Then again, the idea that the BBC should employ a dedicated ebike correspondent,, across all the nuances of the subject is laughable, so it is at the level you expect to see.
xtraman122
Well-known member
We get the same stuff over here. Just this summer I think I saw 2 different crashes that made the news, I believe with minors riding them and reported on the headline as “e-bike crash”. They then show a shot of the “bike” laying at the scene of the crash and it was a Surron/Talaria…
As an aviation professional myself, don’t get me started on how such events are reported…
I agree that we shouldn’t expect reporters to be all over technical aspects of what they’re reporting on, but getting the type of vehicle correct is pretty basic stuff.
More poor reporting here:
share.google
Boy, 13, arrested after 12-year-old’s death from roundabout ‘propelled by e-bike’
A 13-year-old boy has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving
share.google
Ooh Harsh! That would put the cat among the pigeons!
I remember when the wearing of seat belts was to be made compulsory for the first time. MPs were blathering back and forth, pedalling their theories and prejudices. One MP proposed that for safety reasons, pregnant women should be excused. The instant response from another MP was "How pregnant?"
In the eyes of the law, you cannot be a little bit illegal, in the same way that you cannot be a little bit pregnant.
Let's scrap the illegally speeding cars first.
Yep, a scrapping policy would do the trick.
But as with the pregnancy issue: speeding by how much? 1mph, 5mph, 10mph, double the limit?
We already have graduated punishments for speeding they just have to be applied (starting with "detected" of course).
Account Deleted
Active member
Speeding in a car, is 10km/h over the limit "more ok" than 100km/h over the limit?
Account Deleted
Active member
Sieg Heil
DirkWisely
Well-known member
The difference is the car isn't modified to be illegal. Operated illegally != exists illegally.
Scrapping seems wasteful though. I'd say it should be seized, restored to a legal state, and auctioned off.
Don't like it? It's trivial to not modify your bike. If you really hate the limit, then advocate for a change in the law. I don't see all the drama around draconian punishments for crimes that are impossible to do unwillfully. The punishment only applies if you're dumb enough to violate said law. People that want light punishments just want to break the law without consequence.
xtraman122
Well-known member
The biggest problem imo is that most of these are being ridden by unlicensed/inexperienced riders/operators who don’t know the rules of the road. A Surron/Talaria type bike is dangerous and often ends up with someone dead because it’s ridden by a 13 year old who thinks they can drive with the cars, but have no idea the actual rules of the road yet, or are driving down sidewalks straight into street crossings without realizing they need to yield to cars. Someone with a motorcycle license should absolutely be able to ride one if it’s registered/insured like a motorcycle, but that’s not what is happening here and who ends up on the news.
The problem I have, is I need >25kph when riding on the roads. It's just not safe doing 25kph when cars are speeding by at 40kph.
In Urban areas, a car will wait behind you, till it's safe, if you are doing 30-40kph. At 25kph, they'll try and sneak by, by squeezing you out.
I agree with 25kph limit in shared areas. But on the road, it's a hazard.
Regarding what should be illegal. Any bike with a throttle is an E-Motorcycle, regardless of whether it has peddles or not. This is the issue that needs separation from ebikes and enforcement. I know this may upset some Americans, as there are legal ebikes with throttles in the USA. But this is what is driving Overseas manufacturers to produce E-bikes with throttles. And these bikes are leaching into other markets, and giving E-bikes a bad name.
In Urban areas, a car will wait behind you, till it's safe, if you are doing 30-40kph. At 25kph, they'll try and sneak by, by squeezing you out.
I agree with 25kph limit in shared areas. But on the road, it's a hazard.
Regarding what should be illegal. Any bike with a throttle is an E-Motorcycle, regardless of whether it has peddles or not. This is the issue that needs separation from ebikes and enforcement. I know this may upset some Americans, as there are legal ebikes with throttles in the USA. But this is what is driving Overseas manufacturers to produce E-bikes with throttles. And these bikes are leaching into other markets, and giving E-bikes a bad name.
xtraman122
Well-known member
Power and speed limits seem most important to me, I get the thing with throttles, but electric scooters are obviously throttle only and haven’t been too much of a problem. It’s the speed limit and overall power (Getting to that speed limit super quickly is just inherently more dangerous). But man, I don’t know why the EU decided on the silly 25kph limit, just crazy slow. The 20mph we have in the US and a few other countries seems a lot more reasonable.
They are still illegal in my state. So someone thinks they are a problem.
I find it difficult seeing "getting to 25kph" quickly on something that weighs 20kgs, as a safety issue. Especially when an adult weighs 80kgs and can easily accelerate quicker by running.
Physics intervenes on a bicycle, and the bike would just flip over backwards if it accelerates too quickly.
I don't want the limit changed in Australia. It allows us to access every bicycle trail in Australia. We just need the no throttles enforced better to prevent the import of E-motorcycles with pedals for footrests, then being marketed as Ebikes.
Modifying a AUD$10K factory EMTB, to increase the limit, to 32kph, or even 40kph. These are not the people giving Ebikes a bad name. And granted here in Australia. Police are not targeting these bikes. They are targeting the motorcycle looking Ebikes, that are clearly not designed to be pedalled. The entire body position is wrong for pedalling and makes pedalling very difficult.
These are clearly Ebikes designed to be fitted with a throttle, as an aftermarket upgrade, that many of the shops selling them offer, under the guise of only being used on private land.
Account Deleted
Active member
Yeah. At 32 I wouldn't bother derestricting. But what has generally happened is "since I'm derestricting, might as well make it 40+".
NZ just got 45kph now I see, and people can take their bikes to dealers and get them reset. Another good reason to plan to retire there
In the UK kids riding electric scooters on pavements and paths, particularly in urban areas, are a serious hazard.
It’s of course perfectly ok to de-restrict your EU/UK legal pedelec e-bike, as long as you put it through a type approval test, register, tax and insure it, wear a helmet and then only ride it in places where it’s allowed.
There is a choice here, just hardly anybody wants to take it.
The regulations as designed here in the UK has allowed 25kph e-bikes to be ridden legally anywhere a bicycle can be ridden. To go back to the OP, the BBC and others reporting the way they do is unhelpful as it lumps all ‘e-bikes’ in the same pot and paints the bikes I ride as a problem the same as ones being ripped lawlessly around the place.
That’s why it matters.
There is a choice here, just hardly anybody wants to take it.
The regulations as designed here in the UK has allowed 25kph e-bikes to be ridden legally anywhere a bicycle can be ridden. To go back to the OP, the BBC and others reporting the way they do is unhelpful as it lumps all ‘e-bikes’ in the same pot and paints the bikes I ride as a problem the same as ones being ripped lawlessly around the place.
That’s why it matters.
Completely agree - 'Joe Public' has no idea about the restrictions and what makes 1 bike legal whilst an identical one beside it is illegal (un-restricted). No-one is suggesting that we educate the world's population BUT respected broadcasters should know the difference and if not educate the public, report with clarity.
And yes, cars parked on double yellows (UK) should be towed & scrapped [crouch down, helmet on].
Paulquattro
Meet & Greet Elite
We don't ride E bikes we never have ,
We ride Pedelecs If they were called what they are instead of generic slang they would be no issues
We ride Pedelecs If they were called what they are instead of generic slang they would be no issues
xtraman122
Well-known member
Totally agree they’re a nuisance, they’ve been banned in many cities here as well, but mostly just for that, being a nuisance, not many of the same headlines as I’m seeing now with people being seriously injured or killed when someone on a Surron gets t-boned by a car they cut in front of.
xtraman122
Well-known member
That was exactly my point, if you took the extreme case of someone with an overpowered 3-5Kw hot rod e-bike or e-motorcycle that weighs 30kg+, even if they had some speed limiter, they could be a pretty dangerous thing out there to pedestrians if they enough power to wheelie and accelerate hard.
I emailed the BBC yesterday after reading this thread and coming across an article about a youth dieing after crashing their ebike (the BBC's description), to ask them to clarify the type of bike, explaining the difference between the ebikes we tend to ride and Emotos such as Surrons.
I suggest that anyone who comes across such articles or posts contact the author and highlight the issue.
I suggest that anyone who comes across such articles or posts contact the author and highlight the issue.
Ridgydidge
Member
No distinction in here…
www.theguardian.com
Britain’s illegal e-bike boom: desperation, delivery drivers – and unthinkable danger
E-bikes can legally travel at 15.5mph. But the fastest the police have seized was capable of 70mph. What will stop the rise of these souped-up and potentially fatal vehicles?
www.theguardian.com
A new sign recently went up on our trail(s) entrance which helps distinguish the difference.
Now enforcing this is another matter.
In the past few years I have noticed a few types of bikes which fall outside these restrictions. A Vespa, a Surron, an e-bike, a dirt bike and a de-restrict EMTB.
In the past month a 16yr old dirt bike rider has been using/racing the fire roads. It’s easy to see where he has travelled and he avoids verbal contact with hikers and mountain bikers. He has sprayed rocks and gravel at some users.
Numerous pictures and videos are being gathered. The user has claimed that he is a cabin owner/user (which is a lie).
Our mtb community is worried. No evidence of actual trail use …yet. However, it’s believed that he has secretly built a “party-cabin” for him and his friends. The legitimate cabin owners have been notified along with the Police and Provincial Park Wardens.
Now enforcing this is another matter.
In the past few years I have noticed a few types of bikes which fall outside these restrictions. A Vespa, a Surron, an e-bike, a dirt bike and a de-restrict EMTB.
In the past month a 16yr old dirt bike rider has been using/racing the fire roads. It’s easy to see where he has travelled and he avoids verbal contact with hikers and mountain bikers. He has sprayed rocks and gravel at some users.
Numerous pictures and videos are being gathered. The user has claimed that he is a cabin owner/user (which is a lie).
Our mtb community is worried. No evidence of actual trail use …yet. However, it’s believed that he has secretly built a “party-cabin” for him and his friends. The legitimate cabin owners have been notified along with the Police and Provincial Park Wardens.
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