Did Bosch Quietly Nerf Our Bikes with eMTB+? And Why No 100Nm for EB11.100.001 Motors?

[iThoughTiSawApussyCat]

Did Bosch Quietly Nerf Our Bikes with eMTB+? And Why No 100Nm for EB11.100.001 Motors?

So I’ve been watching this unfold and talking to other riders, and it feels like Bosch just pulled a quiet downgrade on a big chunk of us — especially if you’ve got the Performance Line CX Smart System motor (EB11.100.001).

Here’s what’s going on:


---

The Missing 100Nm Update

Bosch recently rolled out firmware updates that unlock:

100Nm torque (up from 85Nm)

A new "eMTB Plus" mode


But they only gave this to certain motor variants — mostly the newer Performance Line CX Smart System units (like EB121 and EB122). If you’ve got EB11.100.001 (which most of us do from 2022–2023), you were left behind.

No clear explanation from Bosch. The older units should be mechanically capable of handling the extra torque. They just… didn’t include us.


---

eMTB+ Mode: A Quiet Downgrade?

The update also brought in "eMTB+" mode, supposedly an improvement. But a lot of us are noticing the opposite:

Slower acceleration

Milder response on technical climbs

Less urgency when pushing out of corners


Feels like the power curve has been softened. And unlike before, there's no way to revert to the older eMTB mode once you’ve updated.

It’s like they gave us something new — but quietly took away the old feel that worked better.


---

What’s the Agenda Here?

This is where it starts to look intentional:

First, Bosch tightened anti-tuning firmware (1.2.0.0+)

Then they pushed this "upgrade" that actually dials things down

Now they’re locking performance features (like 100Nm) behind newer hardware


No rollback options. No user control. Just subtle downgrades with every update, unless you buy into their newest kit.

Seems like a pretty effective way to push hardware upgrades without saying it out loud.


---

Anyone Else Noticing This?

If your bike suddenly feels slower or flatter, you're probably not imagining it.

Would be great to hear from others:

Did you notice a performance drop after updating?

Did anyone actually prefer the new eMTB+ mode?


Let’s put some data behind this — it might help others avoid getting stung by these updates.


---

For Me Personally...

I suffer from severe knee issues, and the way the bike used to surge forward under load was one of the main reasons I could ride at all. I relied on that sharp acceleration to reduce strain — it let me flow through terrain without overworking my joints.

Now that they’ve toned it all down, the bike lags, builds speed more gradually, and it’s actually started hurting again. It's frustrating, because that feeling of lunging forward — accelerating cleanly to max speed — was a huge part of why I bought this system.

I didn’t ask for it to be softened. None of us did.

 

[DylanJM]

I can already tell from the tone and style of your post that there's likely nothing to be gained from a debate on this but I will say that the way the world works these days I would be glad Bosch offered any performance updates at all for the gen 4 motors as I doubt other manufactures would do the same for legacy hardware.

I am also not sure how EMTB+ mode could be nerfed when it never existed prior to the update. Below screenshot also suggests you can still choose the old EMTB mode.

 

[Joecrow]

eMTB+ Mode: A Quiet Downgrade?

The update also brought in "eMTB+" mode, supposedly an improvement. But a lot of us are noticing the opposite:

Slower acceleration

Milder response on technical climbs

Less urgency when pushing out of corners

Others here are reporting the new eMTB+ mode is an improvement, have you tried different levels of Assistance and Dynamic, these can be customised? Are you also saying the eMTB mode, which is still selectable has also changed?

No clear explanation from Bosch. The older units should be mechanically capable of handling the extra torque.

Are you really sure about that and how about the rest of the drive train? Note Haibike, Ghost and other Winora brands have blocked the 100Nm part of the update on their Gen 5 bikes pending "internal testing", my guess is they do not want to risk possible warranty claims for premature wear or damage untill they are really sure the extra torque is benign. Without a massive testing effort I do not see how Bosch could avoid leaving themselves open to claims that a 100Nm update on their Gen 4 motors caused problems.
It ain't gonner happen so be happy Gen 4 motors got some of the upgrade and the battery lock and improved navigation visuals for the Kiox displays.

 

[mooby77]

Have the upgrade on GEN 4 after figuring out , thanks to members of this forum how to get EMTB+ , edit custom settings list etc,
I have kept EMTB and added EMTB+ , , ditched eco , kept Tour + and have rode the bike a fair bit now using the new settings , and I cant really tell much difference between the two EMTB settings , maybe a little on steep tech climbing , but not really noticeable for me , custom setting made on both which are the same , but it's nice to have the option so fair play to Bosch for at least offering something on what is now a legacy motor, even if it is just software and the motor could be capable of using the increases that the GEN 5 have had.
I accepted that , not gonna get the full beans update on the GEN 4 and tbh , not sure I would use it anyway,
Reading your post , it suggests maybe you have not customised your settings , I assume you also signed the latest petition doing the rounds to ask Bosch to include the full upgrade to GEN 4 ?, which is a waste of time , never gonna happen and would need the agreement of bike manufacturers retrospectively.

 

[Dax]

Who uses anything other than Turbo?

 

[emtbeast]

As far as I know the 100Nm/750W update was never meant or marketed for the gen 4 Performance line CX line of motors, only for the new so called gen 5.
The gen 4 would only get some bits like the eMtb+ mode and other stuff as an option in the app.
You can still choose any other mode in app and tune it to your liking, it is often that after an update the settings of the bike are reset to default or to new default levels which could be under what you had set before.

 

[mooby77]

Who uses anything other than Turbo?

well some of us have the legs and lungs

but honestly never really used Turbo , I guess at some point I will use it more , age and knees are telling me to for sure

 

[RustyIron]

There's no secret conspiracy to downgrade anyone's bikes.

 

[Dax]

There's no secret conspiracy to downgrade anyone's bikes.

That’s what they want you to think

 

[jbrown15]

The two motors have different designs, the latest having additional magnets. Which from what I've read is the reason it's capable of taking the 100nm update.

I guess I'd have to ask, why would Bosch not want to give the update to the older Gen 4 motor if it was capable of the additional power. It would have probably saved them time and money if they didn't have to develop a new motor and just continue with the older one.

 

[steveone6]

Did Bosch Quietly Nerf Our Bikes with eMTB+? And Why No 100Nm for EB11.100.001 Motors?

So I’ve been watching this unfold and talking to other riders, and it feels like Bosch just pulled a quiet downgrade on a big chunk of us — especially if you’ve got the Performance Line CX Smart System motor (EB11.100.001).

Here’s what’s going on:


---

The Missing 100Nm Update

Bosch recently rolled out firmware updates that unlock:

100Nm torque (up from 85Nm)

A new "eMTB Plus" mode


But they only gave this to certain motor variants — mostly the newer Performance Line CX Smart System units (like EB121 and EB122). If you’ve got EB11.100.001 (which most of us do from 2022–2023), you were left behind.

No clear explanation from Bosch. The older units should be mechanically capable of handling the extra torque. They just… didn’t include us.


---

eMTB+ Mode: A Quiet Downgrade?

The update also brought in "eMTB+" mode, supposedly an improvement. But a lot of us are noticing the opposite:

Slower acceleration

Milder response on technical climbs

Less urgency when pushing out of corners


Feels like the power curve has been softened. And unlike before, there's no way to revert to the older eMTB mode once you’ve updated.

It’s like they gave us something new — but quietly took away the old feel that worked better.


---

What’s the Agenda Here?

This is where it starts to look intentional:

First, Bosch tightened anti-tuning firmware (1.2.0.0+)

Then they pushed this "upgrade" that actually dials things down

Now they’re locking performance features (like 100Nm) behind newer hardware


No rollback options. No user control. Just subtle downgrades with every update, unless you buy into their newest kit.

Seems like a pretty effective way to push hardware upgrades without saying it out loud.


---

Anyone Else Noticing This?

If your bike suddenly feels slower or flatter, you're probably not imagining it.

Would be great to hear from others:

Did you notice a performance drop after updating?

Did anyone actually prefer the new eMTB+ mode?


Let’s put some data behind this — it might help others avoid getting stung by these updates.


---

For Me Personally...

I suffer from severe knee issues, and the way the bike used to surge forward under load was one of the main reasons I could ride at all. I relied on that sharp acceleration to reduce strain — it let me flow through terrain without overworking my joints.

Now that they’ve toned it all down, the bike lags, builds speed more gradually, and it’s actually started hurting again. It's frustrating, because that feeling of lunging forward — accelerating cleanly to max speed — was a huge part of why I bought this system.

I didn’t ask for it to be softened. None of us did.

They said gen 4 was not getting update

 

[Pazman]

I have strive on bike with the CX race motor , this came with 400% effort power from new but only in race mode .
Now with the last FW update I get 400% effort in emtb+ .
I have race mode , emtb +, emtb and tour + modes active .
When switching between race and emtb+ there is no noticeable difference so emtb+ is now 400% not 340% as with emtb.
When I switched between emtb+ and emtb there is a noticeable difference.
Emtb+ is an upgrade and not a nerf at all

 

[sjturner2112]

I have bikes with both motors, and the CX gen 4 emtb+ was definitely a noticeable upgrade with the 400%. I think you are very mistaken, to put it mildly. Also, I dislike conspiracy theories and the people who promote them, they are intellectually lazy; t's so much easier to come with a ridiculous conspiracy than it is to actually think carefully about a given issue.

 

[Chairman]

I have bikes with both motors, and the CX gen 4 emtb+ was definitely a noticeable upgrade with the 400%. I think you are very mistaken, to put it mildly. Also, I dislike conspiracy theories and the people who promote them, they are intellectually lazy; t's so much easier to come with a ridiculous conspiracy than it is to actually think carefully about a given issue.

Are you suggesting it's easier to come up with a conspiracy theory than to fly to the moon?

 

[Onetime]

Who uses anything other than Turbo?

I use Race! Having said that, I also felt like my G4 CX Race motor doesn’t hit as hard as it used to before the update. I have the G4 update with eco, emtb, emtb+ and race. Everything except eco is turned up to +5 max on assistance and dynamics and race doesn’t feel as strong as it did before the update. It also feels like it has less overrun as well.

 

[edruid]

Ok so when did this upgarde land (have been a bit too busy to track these things)?

Oh and I'm delinitely able to believe that Bosch would trim their upgrades to mitigate warranty claims.

 

[Onetime]

Ok so when did this upgarde land (have been a bit too busy to track these things)?

Oh and I'm delinitely able to believe that Bosch would trim their upgrades to mitigate warranty claims.

Mid July ish. It was 750w and 100nm and emtb+ for the G5 and for the G4 it was emtb+ with 400% assistance, (like race mode, but still at 600w and 85nm). And both now have the ability to add or subtract up to 5 from 5 different parameters, (assistance, dynamic, max speed, max torque and max power in watts) from each mode within the flow app.

 

[fasterjason]

I have only done one short ride on my gen4 since updating with the EMTB+ but what I did notice while riding on pavement is that the assist cuts off at 19.7 mph now instead of 19.9 mph like it did before the update. I did not change the wheel setting with the Bosch diagnostic 3 tool when I installed the update.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I have only done one short ride on my gen4 since updating with the EMTB+ but what I did notice while riding on pavement is that the assist cuts off at 19.7 mph now instead of 19.9 mph like it did before the update. I did not change the wheel setting with the Bosch diagnostic 3 tool when I installed the update.

I think there is a forum option to change your name ... "SlowerJason" ?

 

[fasterjason]

I think there is a forum option to change your name ... "SlowerJason" ?

Well played

 

[Cannafish]

I have the Gen 4 and found the upgrade eMTB+ mode to be much more of a handful on all settings maxed out. I love it. The overrun is noticeably longer, which has definitely helped me get up the steps to me house which I previously couldn't. To be fair if I did have Gen 5 I would still be looking forward to eMTB+ more than 15nm increase.

 

[BTTB]

I use Race! Having said that, I also felt like my G4 CX Race motor doesn’t hit as hard as it used to before the update. I have the G4 update with eco, emtb, emtb+ and race. Everything except eco is turned up to +5 max on assistance and dynamics and race doesn’t feel as strong as it did before the update. It also feels like it has less overrun as well.

For me I'm more disappointed that having paid the extra for a Gen4 Race compared to the Gen4 CX std I feel letdown by Bosch that the Gen4 Race didn't get to 100nm as now I feel that all Gen4 got this upgrade which is fab in one way but personally I feel a tad ripped off in buying the Race and wouldn't pay extra in the future for a Bosch motor I'll buy the lowest cost and wait for Bosch to give me everything for free in the future

BTW emtb+ is amazing

 

[Onetime]

For me I'm more disappointed that having paid the extra for a Gen4 Race compared to the Gen4 CX std I feel letdown by Bosch that the Gen4 Race didn't get to 100nm as now I feel that all Gen4 got this upgrade which is fab in one way but personally I feel a tad ripped off in buying the Race and wouldn't pay extra in the future for a Bosch motor I'll buy the lowest cost and wait for Bosch to give me everything for free in the future

BTW emtb+ is amazing

I feel like Bosch definitely could do the update for the g4 motors, and I agree that the g4 race motor specifically should also get the 750, 100nm update. But Bosch being a large profit driven company just wants the g4 owners to buy new g5 bikes, which sucks for us g4 owners. This is a gamble for them though, because a lot of g4 owners, (myself included) are put off by this and will end up buying a different brand motor the next time. Probably one with a class 3 option, 1000w and up to 120nm or one with a gearbox and belt drive. Just give the people what they want!

 

[F4Flyer]

I rarely use any mode but Sport but for fun, I decided to use EMTB and EMTB+. EMTB+ is a slightly more powerful (more assist under load) than EMTB. Turbo and Race are even more powerful of course. When I meet some other folks on a group ride, I'll cycle through the diff higher modes and see which suits the situation the best. Problem is- it is practically impossible for me to coordinate with eMTB groups.

 

[iThoughTiSawApussyCat]

Did Bosch Quietly Nerf Our Bikes with eMTB+? And Why No 100Nm for EB11.100.001 Motors?

So I’ve been watching this unfold and talking to other riders, and it feels like Bosch just pulled a quiet downgrade on a big chunk of us — especially if you’ve got the Performance Line CX Smart System motor (EB11.100.001).

Here’s what’s going on:


---

The Missing 100Nm Update

Bosch recently rolled out firmware updates that unlock:

100Nm torque (up from 85Nm)

A new "eMTB Plus" mode


But they only gave this to certain motor variants — mostly the newer Performance Line CX Smart System units (like EB121 and EB122). If you’ve got EB11.100.001 (which most of us do from 2022–2023), you were left behind.

No clear explanation from Bosch. The older units should be mechanically capable of handling the extra torque. They just… didn’t include us.


---

eMTB+ Mode: A Quiet Downgrade?

The update also brought in "eMTB+" mode, supposedly an improvement. But a lot of us are noticing the opposite:

Slower acceleration

Milder response on technical climbs

Less urgency when pushing out of corners


Feels like the power curve has been softened. And unlike before, there's no way to revert to the older eMTB mode once you’ve updated.

It’s like they gave us something new — but quietly took away the old feel that worked better.


---

What’s the Agenda Here?

This is where it starts to look intentional:

First, Bosch tightened anti-tuning firmware (1.2.0.0+)

Then they pushed this "upgrade" that actually dials things down

Now they’re locking performance features (like 100Nm) behind newer hardware


No rollback options. No user control. Just subtle downgrades with every update, unless you buy into their newest kit.

Seems like a pretty effective way to push hardware upgrades without saying it out loud.


---

Anyone Else Noticing This?

If your bike suddenly feels slower or flatter, you're probably not imagining it.

Would be great to hear from others:

Did you notice a performance drop after updating?

Did anyone actually prefer the new eMTB+ mode?


Let’s put some data behind this — it might help others avoid getting stung by these updates.


---

For Me Personally...

I suffer from severe knee issues, and the way the bike used to surge forward under load was one of the main reasons I could ride at all. I relied on that sharp acceleration to reduce strain — it let me flow through terrain without overworking my joints.

Now that they’ve toned it all down, the bike lags, builds speed more gradually, and it’s actually started hurting again. It's frustrating, because that feeling of lunging forward — accelerating cleanly to max speed — was a huge part of why I bought this system.

I didn’t ask for it to be softened. None of us did.

Did Bosch Quietly Nerf Our Bikes with eMTB+? And Why No 100Nm for EB11.100.001 Motors?

So I’ve been watching this unfold and talking to other riders, and it feels like Bosch just pulled a quiet downgrade on a big chunk of us — especially if you’ve got the Performance Line CX Smart System motor (EB11.100.001).

Here’s what’s going on:


---

The Missing 100Nm Update

Bosch recently rolled out firmware updates that unlock:

100Nm torque (up from 85Nm)

A new "eMTB Plus" mode


But they only gave this to certain motor variants — mostly the newer Performance Line CX Smart System units (like EB121 and EB122). If you’ve got EB11.100.001 (which most of us do from 2022–2023), you were left behind.

No clear explanation from Bosch. The older units should be mechanically capable of handling the extra torque. They just… didn’t include us.


---

eMTB+ Mode: A Quiet Downgrade?

The update also brought in "eMTB+" mode, supposedly an improvement. But a lot of us are noticing the opposite:

Slower acceleration

Milder response on technical climbs

Less urgency when pushing out of corners


Feels like the power curve has been softened. And unlike before, there's no way to revert to the older eMTB mode once you’ve updated.

It’s like they gave us something new — but quietly took away the old feel that worked better.


---

What’s the Agenda Here?

This is where it starts to look intentional:

First, Bosch tightened anti-tuning firmware (1.2.0.0+)

Then they pushed this "upgrade" that actually dials things down

Now they’re locking performance features (like 100Nm) behind newer hardware


No rollback options. No user control. Just subtle downgrades with every update, unless you buy into their newest kit.

Seems like a pretty effective way to push hardware upgrades without saying it out loud.


---

Anyone Else Noticing This?

If your bike suddenly feels slower or flatter, you're probably not imagining it.

Would be great to hear from others:

Did you notice a performance drop after updating?

Did anyone actually prefer the new eMTB+ mode?


Let’s put some data behind this — it might help others avoid getting stung by these updates.


---

For Me Personally...

I suffer from severe knee issues, and the way the bike used to surge forward under load was one of the main reasons I could ride at all. I relied on that sharp acceleration to reduce strain — it let me flow through terrain without overworking my joints.

Now that they’ve toned it all down, the bike lags, builds speed more gradually, and it’s actually started hurting again. It's frustrating, because that feeling of lunging forward — accelerating cleanly to max speed — was a huge part of why I bought this system.

I didn’t ask for it to be softened. None of us did.

 

[Jackware]

View attachment 166061

Interesting, what's the source for the graph?

 

[DylanJM]

View attachment 166061

Which mode was used for this test? Also what setup/rig was used to record the data?

 

[JP-NZ]

Feels like the power curve has been softened. And unlike before, there's no way to revert to the older eMTB mode once you’ve updated.

It’s like they gave us something new — but quietly took away the old feel that worked better.

This is a lie, you can easily select the older EMTB and/or EMTB+ in the flow app.

 

[JP-NZ]

Anyone Else Noticing This?

If your bike suddenly feels slower or flatter, you're probably not imagining it.

Would be great to hear from others:

Did you notice a performance drop after updating?

Did anyone actually prefer the new eMTB+ mode?

After updating, I prefer the EMTB+ over EMTB its obviously stronger across the board with 400%>360%.

As for the 100nm, thats part and parcel of newer models and I'm not mad at it, 85nm is more than enough hell I have a 50nm bike that I ride most of the time. You've provided no knowledge if the older smart system motor is even capable of 100nm anyway

 

[Onetime]

After updating, I prefer the EMTB+ over EMTB its obviously stronger across the board with 400%>360%.

As for the 100nm, thats part and parcel of newer models and I'm not mad at it, 85nm is more than enough hell I have a 50nm bike that I ride most of the time. You've provided no knowledge if the older smart system motor is even capable of 100nm anyway

He is not talking about the G5. He is also not talking about the G4 getting 100nm. He is talking about the G4 owners feeling like they have less power after the update than they had before the update. As I said previously, I have a G4 race motor and my race mode does feel weaker than it did before the update. Before the update, race mode was strong and aggressive from the start and it had lots of overrun. Now, after the update, it’s noticeably tamer, even with the settings maxed. G4 owners got emtb+ in the update with 400% assistance, but it’s like an even softer version of my race mode. And as far as I know, once the update is done, there is no going back to the old firmware.