3d Printed Titanium motor through bolts

Plummet

Plummet

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Random question.

Would you purchase 3d printed titanium through bolts for your motor mounts?

If so what so of price would you be willing to pay for such obscure decadence?
 
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What is the benefit of a 3d printed titanium fastener over a traditionally forged, rolled, and heat-treated fastener?

To answer your questions:

1. No.

2. I wouldn't pay anything. You'd have to pay me--and not an inconsequential sum--to use 3d printed motor mount bolts on my bike.
 
RustyIron said:
What is the benefit of a 3d printed titanium fastener over a traditionally forged, rolled, and heat-treated fastener?

To answer your questions:

1. No.

2. I wouldn't pay anything. You'd have to pay me--and not an inconsequential sum--to use 3d printed motor mount bolts on my bike.
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The benefit is lighter weight and many motor bolts are custom sizes. So you can't readily go and buy a ti alternative.

3d print gives the ability to custom make specialist sizing a tow volume without high set up costs.

Side note 3 printed titanium is typically 900mpa, that's a equivalent to a grade 9.9 bolt strength
 
Plummet said:
3d print gives the ability to custom make specialist sizing a tow volume without high set up costs.
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Times are indeed changing. Nowadays, skilled folks can sit down at their computer, create the desired shape, upload it to their printer, load in the desired material, and head to the pub until they get a notification on their phone that the job is finished.

I'm a dinosaur from two generations back--I don't even have CNC machine tools. I'm strictly manual. The process is a little different: I scribble out the dimensions on a scrap of paper, find a chunk of the desired material, and then go to work hogging away everything that doesn't look like my desired shape.

What both these processes have in common is time. While I can make titanium fasteners for my bike, it would take a lot of time. And frankly, I don't like working with titanium. It's not worth it for me to use anything other than the steel fasteners that came on the bike. I assume that creating the program at your CAD/CAM station is also labor-intensive.

How long would it take you whip out a batch of fasteners for your bike? Or more accurately, how long would it take to draw out the fasteners on your CAD/CAM software? Once you have the program figured out, what's the cost of materials to print out a batch?
 
RustyIron said:
Times are indeed changing. Nowadays, skilled folks can sit down at their computer, create the desired shape, upload it to their printer, load in the desired material, and head to the pub until they get a notification on their phone that the job is finished.

I'm a dinosaur from two generations back--I don't even have CNC machine tools. I'm strictly manual. The process is a little different: I scribble out the dimensions on a scrap of paper, find a chunk of the desired material, and then go to work hogging away everything that doesn't look like my desired shape.

What both these processes have in common is time. While I can make titanium fasteners for my bike, it would take a lot of time. And frankly, I don't like working with titanium. It's not worth it for me to use anything other than the steel fasteners that came on the bike. I assume that creating the program at your CAD/CAM station is also labor-intensive.

How long would it take you whip out a batch of fasteners for your bike? Or more accurately, how long would it take to draw out the fasteners on your CAD/CAM software? Once you have the program figured out, what's the cost of materials to print out a batch?
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To start with, If you can buy an off the shelf fastener that is by far the cheapest.

To model a bespoke bolt or nut fixture assuming you have the dimensions at hand and not extremely weird geo to produce a 3d model and reference drawing. 30 minutes.

Cost of printing is a how long is a piece of string question. Depends on the qty and number of different design.
 
Depends on weight and cost. But I think the idea has potential fellow weight weenie.
 
Suns_PSD said:
Depends on weight and cost. But I think the idea has potential fellow weight weenie.
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About half of the steel bolt.

Cost well, that's the question. At what point would you tap out and go that's too expensive.

Lets just say you can save could save 70 grams for mounting bolt fasteners.
What would you be prepared to pay?
$50, $100, $150, $300?.
 
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That's very little weight in the least important location. You 100% won't feel this, like at all.

I think this would be a worthwhile addition to the CXR motor that Bosch sells as economies of scale would allow them to do it much cheaper, but aftermarket, I'm not seeing it unless it was like, $69 (giggity) shipped.

A $1/ gram is sort of the WW benchmark.
 
Suns_PSD said:
That's very little weight in the least important location. You 100% won't feel this, like at all.

I think this would be a worthwhile addition to the CXR motor that Bosch sells as economies of scale would allow them to do it much cheaper, but aftermarket, I'm not seeing it unless it was like, $69 (giggity) shipped.
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To put it into context, its similar to weight savings going from steel to alloy chainring or alloy to carbon bar, lighter pedals.

I agree you wont feel 70 grams. Weight weenieing weight savings yields fruit with the sum of multiple weight saving initiatives. No one small change.

PS. I'll take your giggity price point into consideration.
 
1$/1g was always the benchmark for carbon and other WW stuff. You could always argue that inflation affects that, but I guess the only true answer is - what the market would accept. Won't know for sure till you try.
 
Hiltix said:
Printing a Frame with TI would be more interesting :cool:
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The reason you see lugged ti and carbon frames like atheton is because the 3d medal printers arent big enough to print a whole frame.....
 
Plummet said:
The reason you see lugged ti and carbon frames like atheton is because the 3d medal printers arent big enough to print a whole frame.....
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Yes, I know that. But that's exactly why I mention it, at some point there will be enough big machines for it. And then it will be really exciting.

And to be honest, I don't see the reason why I should change engine bolts for lots of money and a little less weight. Maybe on a biobike yes, it's just unfortunate that they don't have a motor by nature :giggle:;)
 
As already mentioned $1/g is a good benchmark (and I don't see you finding anyone to 3d print Ti for that price). More for items with greater benefit like rims for rotating weight, but the ceiling is probably $2/g.
I'd be very sceptical of a 3d printed Ti bolt (in terms of layer strength and porosity etc), are you imagining printing the thread and hex to finished size? If so that seems a bit ambitious and as soon as you are looking at finishing op's on these you probably better off just getting them fully machined.
 
Just as cheep to get them made from bar stock. i had some bits made for my 2022 orbea from component engineering down in Cornwall
 
Plummet said:
The reason you see lugged ti and carbon frames like atheton is because the 3d medal printers arent big enough to print a whole frame.....
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This baby will do it, but I wouldn't like to guess at the CapEx needed for such a beast...

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I know this subject is personal but I’m constantly bewildered the small weight savings that people strive to get.
Whatever I could shave off the bike I would more than offset by filling my water bottle or adding an extra Allen key to my tool kit. I could save more than 70g by going to the toilet before a ride.
A good low down weight saving would be removing metal cleats from your shoes or riding without socks. :)
 
Old Codger said:
I know this subject is personal but I’m constantly bewildered the small weight savings that people strive to get.
Whatever I could shave off the bike I would more than offset by filling my water bottle or adding an extra Allen key to my tool kit. I could save more than 70g by going to the toilet before a ride.
A good low down weight saving would be removing metal cleats from your shoes or riding without socks. :)
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Come on man you're from Yorkshire, look after the grams and the kgs will look after themselves! And that includes taking unnecessary Allen keys out of your pack... and why the hell would you want to go for a ride whilst still needing the loo?
 
Old Codger said:
I know this subject is personal but I’m constantly bewildered the small weight savings that people strive to get.
Whatever I could shave off the bike I would more than offset by filling my water bottle or adding an extra Allen key to my tool kit. I could save more than 70g by going to the toilet before a ride.
A good low down weight saving would be removing metal cleats from your shoes or riding without socks. :)
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As I've stated before. Weight savings of one individual item its not easily noticeable. But the combined savings of many initiatives and or parts speccing makes a real difference to the performance of the bike.

Case and point the difference between my Voima 25.5 kg and my Crestline at 21.8kg with smallest battery = 3.7kg of weight difference. That is significant. Plus I think I can pull that down to 21KG and 4.5kg weight difference with a few more choice parts selections.
 
So how much weight saving would make a noticeably difference to a bike’s handling and would this be racing on a downhill route or on the flat?
 
Old Codger said:
I know this subject is personal but I’m constantly bewildered the small weight savings that people strive to get.
Whatever I could shave off the bike I would more than offset by filling my water bottle or adding an extra Allen key to my tool kit. I could save more than 70g by going to the toilet before a ride.
A good low down weight saving would be removing metal cleats from your shoes or riding without socks. :)
Click to expand...
Drilling holes in your water bottle is another good one .
 
I am weight weenie. But the dropper post & seat, wheels and tires, bars, even pedals, basically the parts hanging near the ends will give you the most bang for the buck by far. Especially on an e-bike that's always going to have a lump of weight right in the center.

I have a 27# Smuggler and it's a different world riding that bike compared to other 32# 140mm travel bikes. It does add up but still, it's mostly in the tires.
 
Old Codger said:
So how much weight saving would make a noticeably difference to a bike’s handling and would this be racing on a downhill route or on the flat?
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1kg is noticable when I change from 400hw to 600wh.

I did an enduro race and completed the first lap of stages on the 600wh. Then did a second lap on the 400wh. I was 0.5 to 1 second faster per 1.5 min stage on the 400wh.
 
Plummet said:
1kg is noticable when I change from 400hw to 600wh.

I did an enduro race and completed the first lap of stages on the 600wh. Then did a second lap on the 400wh. I was 0.5 to 1 second faster per 1.5 min stage on the 400wh.
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Was the noticeable change in the handling or just the speed increase?
Perhaps loosing 1kg body weight would have produced the same results. I don’t mean anything personal.
 
Old Codger said:
Was the noticeable change in the handling or just the speed increase?
Perhaps loosing 1kg body weight would have produced the same results. I don’t mean anything personal.
Click to expand...
In the instance of the battery change, yes a noticeable change in handling. It reduces front weight bias and the bike is easier to manual and feels more playful. It feels more like an mtb and less like an e-bike with the 400wh in. In fact i'll ride around in tour+ and pedal harder to mild my 400wh longer than stick the 600wh and use more motor power because I enjoy the weight difference that much.

Loosing body weight wont change the bike feel. Also there is only so much body weight to loose as well. I am currently 2kg off full race weight. I'll be back to race weight by spring. So there wont be any more weight to loose there either.
 
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