Sections of trails that kick my a$$ get an F-.
"You seem to be saying that to beginners, all trails are black. Whereas to experts all trails are green. That may be how they see them, but it is not a valid way of rating trails. To try to take into account the riders’ varying skill and fitness levels is the way to madness. I would also not take into account what type of bike the rider might want to use. It’s their choice, they are intelligent people and can choose for themselves whether the bike they want to use, in conjunction with their own assessment of their ability, is suitable for that trail or not. In your example, the downhill section that would have you writing your will would be graded appropriately so that you would know in advance that (for you) it was a widow maker. You are a policeman, so you will have a nose for a scene that sets your hackles rising. A newbie wouldn’t see it, but you do. Would you accept that it would be possible for you to tell the newbie what it was that you were reacting to? If so, then you are using your experience to make the subjective, objective. Surely grading a trail is easier than that?
www.bergfreunde.eu
That looks good, still a bit subjective though.Well, there is the Single Track Scale (STS):
MTB single track scale » Trail grading system for mountain biking
From S0 and S1 (easy) to S2 (intermediate) all the way up to S3, S4 and S5 (extremely difficult): All mountain biking (MTB) trail grades explained - at the click of a button.
This allows the rating of a section of trail on a scale from S0 to S5.
Komoot shows the S rating on some of the trails, but not all sadly.
I generally avoid anything that is S4 or higher.
no it isn’t:
www.singletrail-skala.de
To some extent it inevitably is somewhat subjective but that would not stop it being beneficial.no it isn’t:
Singletrail-Skala
Singletrail-Skala zur Einstufung in techinsche Schwierigkeitsgrade
You have rated it! "Double black, or even Red Bull extreme". By adding the chicken runs and go arounds however you have compromised that grade so my solution would be to give it two grades. With regard to experienced riders with intimate trail knowledge it is rather pointless I agree but for those you could say there are only 2 grades. Them you can ride and them you can't.
this is a build trail. the singletrail scale is for rating the century old not made for mtb trails without man made obstacles.
, maybe, maybe not. Do MTB trails stay the same over time, trail centres have more chance that they would remain closer to their given grade if using similar adjectival/technical grades to climbing. Natural type trails with difficult technical features may be harder to grade in relative terms as they are going to be graded by riders who have the skill to actually ride them. I could never understand how climbers who could climb well into the E grades doing a first ascent climb several grades below their level of ability and being accurate in grading it for guide books. I could solo, without a rope, some climbs that would have had my wife shitting her pants to borrow a phrase. I climbed in the lower E grades that better climbers than me would be able to solo with ease. Ability/skill, what bike you're on does make a difference how a trail is percieved. The broad brush strokes of green, blue, red, black etc give a better chance of the majority level of rider understanding which trails they can ride. OK at a much higher level of technical difficulty for riders who have the skill, maybe trails/features could be given adjectival/technical grades similar to climbing.
Same here, UK grading system works, is easily understood, although the first time climbing on Northumberland sandstone is a surprise to non-locals. Adjusting to French grades, been to Chamonix several times to climb and MTB, is quite quick helped by just clipping bolts on climbs.
, it's easily understood by both beginners and skilled riders. Adding an extra colour to an overall grade to indicate a section with higher difficulty might work.
. There's still a number of trails there that have had dozens of trees down that are not able to be cleared unless machinery is used. Local MTBers with chainsaws can only do so much, some of the trees down after Arwen in November 2021 are just too big and numerous to clear.
Any grading system has to assume optimum conditions! I was simply thinking that by grading sections parts of trails would be opened up to less skilled riders. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is another discussion. At my local centre many of the Blacks are only Black in the lower section but this puts people off doing the top halfs which are very good and less difficult. Tabletops are another anomaly with regard to grading. Surely they are only Black if you ride them as they are meant to be ridden i.e. take air and land on the downslope. If you roll them or only take air for the take off they can be easier than the blues so in this instance the grade is for the rider and not the trail. Or am I misunderstanding?Same here, UK grading system works, is easily understood, although the first time climbing on Northumberland sandstone is a surprise to non-locals. Adjusting to French grades, been to Chamonix several times to climb and MTB, is quite quick helped by just clipping bolts on climbs.
So we're going with the system already in place here, Blue, Red, Black etc
This, I suppose, can only really work at trail centres with trail signs, names everywhere, that are properly maintained, it wouldn't work at most of the places I ride locally. Natural trails that can change from one day to the next due to the weather, that simply evolve due to wear/use etc.
I'm sure after yesterday's storm, the forest where we rode on Sunday, Blairadam near Kelty in Fife will have a few trees down on trails. Try grading that
So I'm happy with my local trail grading system, none, and the grades at trail centres like Glentress with colours. Everybody seems to understand that as it's helpfully, repeatedly spelled out on signs.
Didn't intend to disagree with you, was trying to sort of back up what you wrote.
Feck breaking bits of me though. The last time I flew through the air was 40+ years ago with a hang-glider and that ended in a crash into ground.
How do you know it can be ridden blind until you have either seen it or seen the rating?
Oh dear.................
My wording was poor.How do you know it can be ridden blind until you have either seen it or seen the rating?
Therein lies the problem we have been discussing.
My mates and I went to the French Alps back in 2012 when I was a newbie. The first red trail we attempted had us pissing our pants. Very steep and tight hairpins on the edge of a precipice that required an endo to get round, a skill we did not possess. We turned around and did the push up of shame. What made it worse than hearing the curses of the riders coming down, was the scorn aimed at us from the riders in the lifts directly above, less than 20 feet above!! I can feel the embarrassment now!
I agree with you, and i would personally like to see something like an additional rating for the level of danger and exposure of a trail.
I was thinking primarily of bike parks but I see no reason why it could not be applied elswhere. Some places already give separate names to sections within an overall trail name so it would seem logical and helpful if they also graded the section. At FOD it is applied on some trails but not others. Freeminers for example is graded Red, a new section has been made and named, in this instance, Boneyard also graded Red. All the Black trails are relatively easy in the top half, probably Blue or Red, but severe in the bottom half so many moderate riders who do not know the area avoid them all together even though the top halves are enjoyable in their own right and at a difficulty they could manage. It does help of course that at FOD trails have natural breaks at fireroads which would facilitate this.
There was an attempt back in the late 60's to introduce a very specific grading system for climbs. Every factor was taken into account and I mean EVERY factor that resulted in a grade that was the length of my first sentence. It never caught on and died a death. The point being that you can take it too far. IMO a 2 tier system is just about right. One for overall feel and danger, the other for just technical factors. This could be applied to trails very easily.
, flip flops, barely dressed, no map, and unprepared etc …makes me laugh sometimes. But the consequences can be costly. I’m not the “Trail Cop” 
