Northman57
Member
well, you have to look here: Geometries
Not exactly user-friendly, I admit.
L size the biggest, 485mm reach...
Not exactly user-friendly, I admit.
L size the biggest, 485mm reach...
Eurobike 2025: The DJI Flood Begins
- Thread starter slickrock
- Start date
Has not been my experience with the EP801 and the racing firmware upgrade. It improved the climbing ability over the EP8 by a huge factor. Not to mention the integration with the Di2 XT 11S 11-50T linkglide electronic transmission. You get Freeshift, Coastshift and Autoshift.
At £200 it's a much cheaper electronic derailleur than the electronic SRAM. And I can get the cassette for £50, and they last much longer than other cassettes. The chains are less than £20, but not as long lasting as the SRAM T-Type, but much cheaper.
I can get a whole new motor for £500. Not that I've needed to. But it's reassuring to know that no matter what goes wrong. It's fairly inexpensive to repair.
Sure it's performance is no where near my Amflow. But as a inexpensive to maintain spare workhorse. It ticks all the right boxes.
I lend it out to friends who want to sample a full power EMTB, with no fear of them causing some ridiculously expensive repair. 2 friends went and bought the same bike, after being very impressed.
Bogdan_CH
Active member
Complicated to be honest. But that 480 mm seat tube for the Large size is well a big no no if you have normal body ratio.
EP801 holds a lot of the KOMs in the endurance capitol of the world. For the last year it was a strong motor. Only recently has it been behind anyone. Now? yes but not laughable.
6 friends bought 7 Canyons with the EP801, only one is not happy. In our group 2 of these bikes are in the top ten on every trail system.
Its exactly where im at. That and I want to split up battery duty. I dont want to wear out the Amflow battery in a year.
on my EP801 I hit 6000 miles almost 750,000 feet climbed in 14 months, and the battery that was recalled seemed like it degraded a huge amount in the last few days ago. Great timing the replacement battery came this morning now charging.
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Very happy with my EP801 too... I tried Bosch G4 and G5 and while difference in power is there for the latter one, it's not something I am actively looking for as I already mainly ride in Trail mode tuned to around 60nM and middle-high assist level. I also seem to be among lucky ones with barely perceptible rattle, so that's another plus. Everything else - ride and assist feel, cadence response, operating noise, reliability is from my perspective on par or even better than Bosch offerings.
All in all, I am nerding on motor and battery development but there is nothing that would make me want to upgrade just yet. I can happily ride out and wait out these incrementally better systems on my EP801 and be ready to invest once solid state batteries or other paradigm-shifting tech gets released
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All in all, I am nerding on motor and battery development but there is nothing that would make me want to upgrade just yet. I can happily ride out and wait out these incrementally better systems on my EP801 and be ready to invest once solid state batteries or other paradigm-shifting tech gets released
.I didn’t vote for it Mate! Just stuck with it because the snake oil salesmen were able to fool enough people. I knew what it would mean. It closed the investment business I worked for and cost 120 jobs. The 20 plus previous years of working across multiple countries in Europe was great.
The Velduro frame only option looks pretty good for this. The full build is 9k but you can buy just a frame and spec it how you want
Bogdan_CH
Active member
... indeed, we've seen it from all of your other posts 
deertrackdoctor
Active member
I'm struggling to understand the velduro frame only at 5k being good value as I just purchased a Complete Cube one 77 action team for 5k
Now that good value absolutely dripping in tip end fox kashima
I would not rule out me owning a Ebike with Avinox motor in the future but Im not prepared to pay a premium .
The Megamo Reason AL at 6k looks the best value DJI equipped bike I've seen so far
Now that good value absolutely dripping in tip end fox kashima
I would not rule out me owning a Ebike with Avinox motor in the future but Im not prepared to pay a premium .
The Megamo Reason AL at 6k looks the best value DJI equipped bike I've seen so far
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
its about 1500chf less retail than a comparable kenevo sl framekit. this is for those ppl who want real life parts on their bikes and not take off half of the bike to mount whatever they prefer. complete bikes are for casuals. i have not one part on my kenevo sl that specialized would spec on their completes, so why investing in the cheapest bike i would need to throw away unsellable entry level parts? that’s just wasteful
Lower spec bikes are normally very good bikes. And small increments in performance improvement, cause disproportionately high increases in cost. And the same cost equation applies to weight reduction.
So if you want a light, full power, 180/170 travel, high spec EMTB. Be prepared to pay silly money.
deertrackdoctor
Active member
Surely you bought the wrong bike then ?
For 5k the cube has fox factory suspension and seat post Shimano XT Groupset
Certainly not take offs
Top of the range kit for 5K
Yes, there are some disruptive elements in play for the coming year. I am hoping that along with the value that the drive train remains the premium version of the Avonix system. It may be possible that a lower spec could be added to the lineup if the predictions are correct. And I am hard pressed to find a better overall value currently than the Cube One77.
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
Bogdan_CH
Active member
To me the greatest benefit of Amflow/DJI hype is they brought through sales and discounts alot of awesome bikes with well designed Geo with Bosch Gen 5. I've read quite a few opinions from people around here and online which they had both, but haven't seen a single one that went DJI because more power over Bosch or Levo gen 4.. Yes it's cool at first but then when ridding a couple runs we all ride at a similar pace which even older full power motor can keep up.
I took part in the Grays Point MTB Festival on the Weekend. Part of it was a race where you lapped the same small course as many times as you could in 3 hrs. Whilst on the flats, inclines and downhills, all the bikes performed well, and it was more down to the rider skill and fitness. So yes, older full powers could keep up. On the tight technical climbs, there was clear pattern. Those on the lightweight Avinox powered EMTBs were clearing sections, where most needed to get off and push the bike up.
That is where the Avinox System in a light-weight bike makes a noteable difference to any of the other current systems, IMO. As someone who owns both. I could feel this when riding. But it was interesting to see the phenomenon at scale.
That said. Maybe part of the phenomenon is that those who are good at technical climbing, are buying the lightweight Avinox EMTBs, so perhaps that is skewing the results. But they do make a difference, and it's not just a "Cool" factor. .
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Bogdan_CH
Active member
Seriously , can we all drop the "lightness" out of the Avinox thing ? It's half a kilo lighter than a Bosch. That's it . I'm willing to bet 1000 euro/usd (you name it) that out of 1000 random users here, none can't distinquish 500 grams on a 20+ bike.
ANYTHING else come from lighter parts, tyres, ligther suspension and so on.
ANYTHING else come from lighter parts, tyres, ligther suspension and so on.
more like ~750g like for like battery + system.
I think I could tell, but I think the feeling of lightness comes from the higher assitance ratios when you ride avinox vs bosch back to back.
For those who want light components, losing 750g of other things comes with big durability or cost trade offs, so it's nice the avinox has given us something with more power and less weight.
mrtrinh
Active member
100%. Had a bosch gen 5 crestline and moved all parts to an avinox crestline. Saved 1.5 lbs.
Bogdan_CH
Active member
750 ? Not sure
Bosch CX5 - Regular : 2.8 kg
Avinox : 2.52 kg
Bosch 800wh battery : 3.9 kg
Avinox 800wh battery : 3.74 kg
Bosch : 6.8 kg
Avinox : 6.26 kg
That's 0.54 kgs or 1.19 lbs
If you take in considerantion that alot of bikes now have the CX-R , thats 100 grams lighter so under 500 grams or under 1 lbs.
Weight matters, but this is not something you can call a full enduro bike lighter over another .
Just to give an example that Bosch bikes can be light, this Crafty with a removable 600wh is almost under 20 kg with pedals and can easily reach that mark .
I got 750 from the emtb/enduro group test thing.
Well I’m still of the view less is better. I guess it’s a bit of a paradox 500/750g may be hard to distinguish for some but a 3kg difference is very obvious
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
do we STILL need to discuss this?
RickBullotta
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
The greatest benefit of the Amflow/DJI hype to me is that it's not hype. It's the best performing eMTB (not just power - handling, balance) I've owned yet.
They built a pretty bitchen trail bike that feels much lighter than any other bike, and has lots of power and is easy to handle.
Not a big deal, what is a big deal is, that it is just a fun bike. The fun factor keeps a smile on your face
It's lighter and more powerful. Thus power to weight ratio is better. Lets do the maths using your figures.
750watts at 6.8kg = 110 watts per kg.
1000watts at 6.26kg = 160 watts per kg
(110 - 160 / 110) X 100 = 45% increase in power to weight performance.
It also delivers the power more smoothly with the encoder system built into the rear wheel.
If you are trying to convince people that a 45% motor system power to weight performance advantage, combined with a DC drive system that is being stabilised by an encoder system that is sampling every 50mm of forward movement, compared with every 2.2 metres in a Bosch system. If you are saying this is not a significant performance advantage. Then you are not really telling a very convincing story.
And where this superiority will provide the most advantage, is in technical climbs, where power to weight and traction control is most critical. Carrying less weight with more power and stability when climbing helps a lot. And this is what I experienced and witnessed in that race.
BTW ...... What appears to be a resonable climbing test between Avinox, Bosch and Specialized has been done. On average on all different types of climbs. Amflow/Avinox is about 13% faster than Specialized. And 20% faster than Trek/Bosch.
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Stating there's a 45% increase in performance is saying too much. The accurate statement is there's a 45% better power to weight ratio. Performance is far more encompassing.
Sure. I'll modify the post.
I fully agree the motor and battery power-to-weight ratio is an interesting comparison, but it doesn't tell you anything about the real performance.
It's, of course, obvious, but the motor and battery themselves don't move anywhere, nor does the bike itself. To consider the real power to weight advantage, we have to compare the total weight of the "system," including the rider. For example, if the imaginary Avinox bike weighs 22 kg and the rider weighs 75 kg (for a total system weight of 97 kg), and the Bosch system weighs 24 kg and the rider weighs 75 kg (for a total system weight of 99 kg), then the power-to-weight ratio is 1,000 W/97 kg = 10.3 W/kg for the Avinox bike and 750 W/99 kg = 7.6 W/kg for the Bosch bike, which gives the Avinox bike a ~35% advantage. Anyway, the "system" weight difference is only 2% and if both bikes would have similar frame and components it would be something like 0.5% (500g).
In any case, power is what matters; motor & battery weight doesn't really matter, except for handling, but the impact is negligible to the power-to-weight ratio.
It's, of course, obvious, but the motor and battery themselves don't move anywhere, nor does the bike itself. To consider the real power to weight advantage, we have to compare the total weight of the "system," including the rider. For example, if the imaginary Avinox bike weighs 22 kg and the rider weighs 75 kg (for a total system weight of 97 kg), and the Bosch system weighs 24 kg and the rider weighs 75 kg (for a total system weight of 99 kg), then the power-to-weight ratio is 1,000 W/97 kg = 10.3 W/kg for the Avinox bike and 750 W/99 kg = 7.6 W/kg for the Bosch bike, which gives the Avinox bike a ~35% advantage. Anyway, the "system" weight difference is only 2% and if both bikes would have similar frame and components it would be something like 0.5% (500g).
In any case, power is what matters; motor & battery weight doesn't really matter, except for handling, but the impact is negligible to the power-to-weight ratio.
Just watched that video and found it quite interesting, just my musings.
So, the bike with 33% more power was 20% faster than the Bosch.
It kind of stands to reason that a more powerful anything on paper will be faster, but the video also highlighted rider ability remaining a significant factor, even if you’re racing.
I know they stacked times together for their overall results, but as individuals and not racing, Mike was slower than the other two guys on the same bikes except for the road section which he was fastest on.
Also, Bryce was faster than Mike on the Avinox even on the slower less powerful bikes. So it isn’t ‘all about the bike’ after all, but of course a more powerful one should make you quicker, which stands to reason.
I noted that none of them seemed to struggle with traction either, however the manufacturers are approaching it.
I know it was a ‘shootout’ test, but even they mentioned bike feel, ‘planted vs playful’, some of it down to power and some to geometry no doubt but none of the bikes are exactly ‘light’, but then they don’t need to be either I suppose.
My main takeaways were it’s important to ride a bike for yourself before dropping big money on one, and I heard the repeated phrase ‘they’re all great fun bikes’ which at the end of the day, ladies and gentleman, is what it’s about for most people. I know if it was miserable I wouldn’t do it!
My E8000 (the most powerful eeb I own) would be absolutely eaten alive by any of those bikes for pace, but hey it still does well for a nearly 6 year old motor, but Shimano seem to have given up on e-bikes these days sadly. I’d love to think they’ve got something in the wings.
So, the bike with 33% more power was 20% faster than the Bosch.
It kind of stands to reason that a more powerful anything on paper will be faster, but the video also highlighted rider ability remaining a significant factor, even if you’re racing.
I know they stacked times together for their overall results, but as individuals and not racing, Mike was slower than the other two guys on the same bikes except for the road section which he was fastest on.
Also, Bryce was faster than Mike on the Avinox even on the slower less powerful bikes. So it isn’t ‘all about the bike’ after all, but of course a more powerful one should make you quicker, which stands to reason.
I noted that none of them seemed to struggle with traction either, however the manufacturers are approaching it.
I know it was a ‘shootout’ test, but even they mentioned bike feel, ‘planted vs playful’, some of it down to power and some to geometry no doubt but none of the bikes are exactly ‘light’, but then they don’t need to be either I suppose.
My main takeaways were it’s important to ride a bike for yourself before dropping big money on one, and I heard the repeated phrase ‘they’re all great fun bikes’ which at the end of the day, ladies and gentleman, is what it’s about for most people. I know if it was miserable I wouldn’t do it!
My E8000 (the most powerful eeb I own) would be absolutely eaten alive by any of those bikes for pace, but hey it still does well for a nearly 6 year old motor, but Shimano seem to have given up on e-bikes these days sadly. I’d love to think they’ve got something in the wings.
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