About plushness compared to Trek Rail

[SandroRiz]

Some questions before pressing BUY on the DJI button
Are there any Trek Rail owners who have switched to Amflow?
I have a 2022 9.8xt "pimped" as 9.9 (carbo rims, zeb ultimate 3.1, Super Deluxe Ultimate ThruShaft shock) and I am very afraid of switching to PL PRO to lose sensitivity and plushness of the swingarm and fork

1) Is the fox 36 as plush and sensitive as the Zeb? If not, it is better to upgrade with a zeb or a Lyrik (I am very light, so a 38 is perhaps even too much; in other words, if the fox would be too "racey", is a Lyrik 3.1 Ultimate as plush as a Zeb 3.1 Ultimate?

2) swingarm and shock: I am super happy with my trek in terms of shock absorption and handling. I already read that the shock of the PL PRO is harsher than the PL :-(
How is the cinematic of amflow compared to the super-tested and efficient of Trek? Will I therefore have a less "couch" and more nervous bike?

Thanks in advance

 

[irie]

"Plushness" is directly related to suspension, wheels, and tyres.

Changing to a different chassis/motor will not change this fact.

AMflow use standard components.

 

[SandroRiz]

"Plushness" is directly related to suspension, wheels, and tyres.

Changing to a different chassis/motor will not change this fact.

AMflow use standard components.

maybe with my poor english knowledge I misused the term...

I'm coming from Rock Shox and will go to Fox.. that's my first question
2nd: geometry, frame and swingarm design would do a lot in terms on handling and confort. I could mount the best and plush coil on "wrong" frame and nont have the desired result.

 

[irie]

If you like what you have and it does what you want then why change?

I have January 2022 alloy Trek Rail with Rockshox Lyrik Ultimate MY23, Ohlins TTX22m.2 coil shock etc. Bike is better than me so no point in changing it. When lighter batteries to arrive might change it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Not had a Rail for a few years - personally I thought it was great but at the same time - a bit boring and maybe felt a bit hefty (I'd sized up which was a bad move).

Keep thinking of adding an Amflow, or Avinox bike ... but haven't yet - must be getting sensible as I get older.

Plushness is very subjective and can be interpreted in various ways, so different people will respond differently.

From all accounts the PL rides really well. The Pro has the issue of "better" suspension - which means its more configurable (so harder to get it right) Personally, I find the Rockshox Deluxe to be great on my E-Mythique. I did buy a fancy Fox one, but it's still sitting there as I can't imagine it could possibly be any better. Jam2 and Kenevo running a mix of Fox/Rockshox/Ohlins.

On the forks, everyone has different experiences too depending on what and how you ride, rider weight and how they've set the fork up.

For me as a general guide. The base Fox 36 is superb for most things (running a 160). The 38 is better if you're hitting hard - running 170. (but a little heavier). The Zeb ultimate (180) I stuck on as a quick test, planning to swap back, but quickly had it performing like the Fox38, so for now it's still on that bike as I was too lazy to swap back. They're all pretty good !!! ok, very good !

Lyric 180 RCT3 I thought was incredible, but find all the others above better in low speed damping. Though the Lyric is just as capable in most stupid stuff if you trust it and have it setup how you need it.

Just click buy on the PL. I think the latest ones have the newer Fox36 too.

Or like he says .....

 

[Dax]

From my experience, a good fox 38 is more plush than a zeb ultimate, but is much harder to set up. Zeb is fit/forget, fox requires tuning.

Many fox forks need a service from new because of excess grease and tight bushings. I just had my 36’s serviced and it has transformed them, but I haven’t bothered setting them up yet.

 

[yorkshire89]

Some of the 'plushness' you are describing could also just come from the weight of the bike. A heavy FF ebike feels really stable and planted.

How much experience do you have on a normal bike? Even a well setup light bike will feel twitchy in comparison, but will be much more nimble on tighter trails.

 

[RustyMTB]

Many fox forks need a service from new because of excess grease and tight bushings.

Agree with that. I have a Lyrik up front & find it incredibly smooth after I service it. I also find that plushness drains away over a few weeks use as the grease disperses & the wipers become dirty. It's very noticeable to me. As for plushness in general, 90% of how any fork feels is in the set up. I'm always amazed at people I know who never adjust anything - a few people I ride with are very much like this.

 

[Dax]

I'm always amazed at people I know who never adjust anything - a few people I ride with are very much like this.

This is what I love about the Zebs. I bolted them on at the trail head, set the compression wide open, rebound in the middle, sag aproximately right, then rode the shit out of them for 2 years. They’ve been absolutely flawless and work brilliantly.

Interesting point about lyrics degrading after a service…maybe I should take these in for an oil change.

 

[RustyMTB]

Thing I learnt from a Fox guy I met at a race - Before a ride, turn the bike upside down for ten minutes, or at least lift it on the back wheel to the extent the oil in the lowers can flow towards the seals. That bathes the foam wipers in oil & will reduce stiction. Might be old hooey but I can see the logic in it.

 

[SandroRiz]

I had the Zeb in 2022 with the bike, charger 2.1. Compared to my previous Fox 36 Fit4 (horrible) good but not what I expected...
One year later upgraded to 3.0. Another fork! Finally what I haved dreamed
2024 did also the cheaper 3.1 upgrade and now it's even better (same plush but more sustain in the middle)

I have to say that I'm very light (54kg naked) so many forks work best in the middle range of "human" average (75?) and for women or little people like me was always a nightmare. But not with ZEB
I close 2 click on LowSpeed and keep all open the high. rebound as suggested , sag around at 27% and it is PERFECT
I do every year the service with suggested oil (Maxima Plush Dynamic Lube) and I replace the SKF dual compound fork seals (red/green)
During the year I never felt decrease of performance (about 100 rides per year)
So, that said, my fear to change with fox 36... hope the 2026 version is at same level.

 

[Zimmerframe]

54kg naked

I guess if you ride naked, no one ever ever ever says anything about you being on an e-bike ?

 

[irie]

I guess if you ride naked, no one ever ever ever says anything about you being on an e-bike ?

Did someone say "naked"? Time for this pic again

 

[conman]

Just click buy on the PL. I think the latest ones have the newer Fox36 too.

What will the difference be with the newer Fox36 over the old one, any idea?

 

[Dax]

What will the difference be with the newer Fox36 over the old one, any idea?

X2 cartridge is apparently a lot more sensitive.

I have to say that I'm very light (54kg naked) so many forks work best in the middle range of "human" average (75?) and for women or little people like me was always a nightmare.

At that weight, you should get your dampers custom tuned.

 

[SandroRiz]

At that weight, you should get your dampers custom tuned.

In the past I was thinking the same... at the time of Fox I had also contacted the Canadian Vorsprung that offers this type of service for lightweights (then it was too expensive), but I can assure you that with ZEB ultimate 3.x there is absolutely no need. Zero tokens, minimum psi, a few clicks and it works like a charm.
Don't know if with Select o Select+ is the same...

 

[Dax]

In the past I was thinking the same... at the time of Fox I had also contacted the Canadian Vorsprung that offers this type of service for lightweights (then it was too expensive), but I can assure you that with ZEB ultimate 3.x there is absolutely no need. Zero tokens, minimum psi, a few clicks and it works like a charm.
Don't know if with Select o Select+ is the same...

I wouldn’t expect to need to talk to Vorsprung about a custom tune, just your local suspension service center.

 

[Plummet]

If you want plush then a 150/160 amflow with 36 isnt the bike for you. Look at getting your arse into a unno 160-170 or crestline 180/180 and run coil rear/fox 38/veb or ohlins equivalent. Then you will experience true buttery plush performance.

Fox 36's have too much flex and are not the best fork for an E bike. Sure they save weight but at the cost of performance. . 38mm stanchion are better, provide less flex and can be tuned for more buttery performance and track better.