Individual fitness v e-bike power expectation. Can you run 10k?

[Rockhopper70]

I’ve not been on this forum too long but the general feeling is that the overwhelming number of members who post have a thirst for moar power and battery size.

I’m in the market for my first e-bike* and I’m definitely looking at SL/mid power as I just want a shove along, not for the bike to do the work. The logic, at risk of blowing my own, is that at nearly 55, I try to keep fit with other activities, which includes running. I’m no athlete, but I can run 10k in just under an hour. I can ride 20miles with 2000ft of climbing fairly easily.
So, is there a correlation between individual perceived or actual fitness, and desires for an e-bike spec? Individual fitness surely plays a part in bike range, the more you do, the less the battery and motor has to do. Likewise, rider weight, plays a big factor.

I don‘t want the transition to an e-bike to be detrimental to my own health and fitness.

*becaue my riding buddies have Orbea Rises and it’s just too hard work keeping up.

 

[russ_e]

The only reason to get a SL is to save weight but those lines are being blurred more and more. There is now only a couple KG between a SL and a full power bike.

When you have a full power bike you can customise the assistance to what ever your preference is. I would imagine you would get even fitter riding a full fat bike in Eco than a SL in turbo.

 

[Rockhopper70]

The only reason to get a SL is to save weight but those lines are being blurred more and more. There is now only a couple KG between a SL and a full power bike.

When you have a full power bike you can customise the assistance to what ever your preference is. I would imagine you would get even fitter riding a full fat bike in Eco than a SL in turbo.

I don’t think I want a full fat, they are just too heavy when you also have a big battery. And budget is an issue, nothing full fat and within a couple of KG comes close to this. For example.

Fuel EXe 9.8 GX AXS Electric Mountain Bike 2023

Specification: Frameset Frame: OCLV Mountain Carbon, removable battery, internal routing, alloy rocker link, 34.9 mm seat tube, upper chain guide mount, 55 mm chainline, Mino Link, ABP, Boost148, UDH, 140 mm travel Fork: RockShox Lyrik Select+, DebonAir spring, Charger 2.1 RC damper, tapered...

www.tritoncycles.co.uk

 

[russ_e]

I don’t think I want a full fat, they are just too heavy when you also have a big battery. And budget is an issue, nothing full fat and within a couple of KG comes close to this. For example.

Fuel EXe 9.8 GX AXS Electric Mountain Bike 2023

Specification: Frameset Frame: OCLV Mountain Carbon, removable battery, internal routing, alloy rocker link, 34.9 mm seat tube, upper chain guide mount, 55 mm chainline, Mino Link, ABP, Boost148, UDH, 140 mm travel Fork: RockShox Lyrik Select+, DebonAir spring, Charger 2.1 RC damper, tapered...

www.tritoncycles.co.uk

An Amflow with the 600w battery comes fairly close. If the Amflow had a 350w battery it might even be lighter, range would be rubbish and it would cost twice as much!

There is no right or wrong answer and you can drive yourself mad trying to decide.

 

[Mike O]

Short answer? Not a problem. Monitor your effort as you do on your mtb or running workouts.

Long answer:

I've been running since the '70s, first to get in shape to race motocross. By the time I stopped racing I discovered that I loved running.

Decades later my area began building a ton of bike trails with some history on two wheels, I thought an emtb would be a great cross-training option to supplement running at 66. I too was concerned that I might lose fitness as I had a time or two through the years. It has gotten harder to get it back so I've just been careful to monitor and adjust.

Ours is not an alpine area so I seldom use Turbo at all. We do have some nice long blue trail loops and in general I keep the power assist down to the minimum needed to get a good work out but still have fun. The amount of assist needed depends on the time and therefore speed available. I got the Turbo Levo not for more power, but for more battery for longer rides. The weight hasn't been an issue on the trail. I do think about an SL when loading/unloading!

It is rather easy to monitor your heart rate, among other stats to ensure that you don't lose fitness. I'm try to alternate as much as practical between bike rides and running. I've found that helps with monitoring how the cycling is affecting running. One problem that does exist is that I have to choose what kind of ride to do in context of my running. That means sometimes I need to take the longer, hillier ride when it would have been great fun to work on progression skills or go with a group. It can be easy to get distracted; but if you don't want to lose fitness, simply monitor it closely. Ride or runner faster, harder, longer (and sleep more) if you find yourself going 'downhill' (intended).

In the two years since getting the bike my running time has actually improved. MUCH slower than I was at 30, but I sure do find riding fun. I hope to improve both running time and cycling skills this year.

Enjoy!

 

[Streddaz]

I’ve not been on this forum too long but the general feeling is that the overwhelming number of members who post have a thirst for moar power and battery size.

I’m in the market for my first e-bike* and I’m definitely looking at SL/mid power as I just want a shove along, not for the bike to do the work. The logic, at risk of blowing my own, is that at nearly 55, I try to keep fit with other activities, which includes running. I’m no athlete, but I can run 10k in just under an hour. I can ride 20miles with 2000ft of climbing fairly easily.
So, is there a correlation between individual perceived or actual fitness, and desires for an e-bike spec? Individual fitness surely plays a part in bike range, the more you do, the less the battery and motor has to do. Likewise, rider weight, plays a big factor.

I don‘t want the transition to an e-bike to be detrimental to my own health and fitness.

*becaue my riding buddies have Orbea Rises and it’s just too hard work keeping up.

I have a first gen Levo SL for over 4 years now and my fitness has increased. Mainly because I ride it to work as well as MTB riding. I do have a Stumpjumper non-Ebike but with the regular commuting the SL would be ridden 80% of my weekly ride time. I find that the Ebike gives you good zone 2 training when doing long rides. You can still go hard if you want but the zone 2 riding does help with endurance.

 

[DirkWisely]

I think it all depends what you're looking for. You can get as much or as little cardio out of a full fat as you want. I tend to do rides I could never do on a normal bike, and my cardio is definitely not fantastic, but I'm getting a hell of a workout in other ways.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

You get more of what you're looking for... seems that is true for not only our current global socio-economic climate but also for ebike purchases. What I mean by that, is if you're a bit lazy as an athlete or pedal bike rider, you're going to be a bit lazy as an ebike rider. In those situations, the ebike can be a detriment to your overall fitness level. For me, the ebike did not detract from my fitness level or abilities on a pedal bike, but that comes with a few caveats:

• I really enjoy riding pedal bikes and riding an ebike does not scratch that itch for me. They are related things, very similar but one does not take the place of the other.
• Because of the above self truth... the ebike ends up adding rides to my riding schedule and not taking the place of already existing rides. I tend to ride my ebike on before or after work rides and in those cases I'm either getting more riding condensed into a shorter timeframe or I'm riding when I otherwise wouldn't. An example of the latter is that I will do a 30-40 minute ebike ride on the way to work, where on a pedal bike, it didn't seem all that worth it for the hassle for 30 minutes.
• I also tend to do some epic ebike rides where I'm spending 4 hours on the bike and working my tail off... oddly enough, it's my upper body that tends to tire out from all of the descending. My legs and cardio do fine in those situations, so it's a bit of a different workout.
• I do a reasonable amount of interval training and workouts on my ebike, as well as zone 2 recovery rides. I find that the ebike is amazing for these two usages, and actually really helped my training. I particularly suck at staying in zone 2 and the ebike has been a huge help. You can really tailor the amount of effort that you put in, and also really provide rest in between interval efforts and as a result, you get more out of them.
• If you ride 2-3 days a week now, and you get an ebike and you change those 2-3 days a week to ebike rides, you will lose fitness. Every year, I ride my ebike only in the hottest part of the summer because it's 32C+ by 10am every day where I live. As I come off of that run, I can tell that my leg power is down, as is my ability to do very long rides without cramping. Also, you tend to lose some mental strength too as you start questioning if you can still do 1200-1500-2000M rides without the ebike power. Spoiler alert, you can and getting back to that takes a few rides and it hurts, but it's doable.

So overall, I think there are two distinctive types of people that ride ebikes, and then there are subsets therein. Those are:

• Group A - "My ebike has only one mode, and that's boost. All boost all the time. Pedal bikes are too much suffering for me to enjoy the brief fun parts."
• Group B - "I really like riding my ebike in low and middle power settings. I have fun on my ebike, but I am a cyclist and I need to get out and suffer to feel truly refreshed."

Some people split time in both camps, or vacillate back and forth. If you are in group B, then you won't lose measurable fitness and you should be looking at the full range of ebikes from SL to modern full power. If you are in group A, skip over all of the reduced power and weight bikes and look at modern, full power bikes that have reasonable weights.

My anecdotal experience is that I am for sure in group B. I spent many years with lighter weight, SL ebikes and I really loved them. I now have a modern full power bike that has reasonable weight (48lbs) and that's sorta the sweet spot for me. I can make arguments for if group A or group B is better and I can make arguments for what kind of bike you should ride... but those are personal decisions. One thing is certain for me after owning an ebike, they are an absolute blast and can be used for pure fun and horse play with few regrets (like a waverunner or jetski) or they can be used with purpose like a high end fishing boat or sports boat. Either are great, provided you get what is tailored to the type or experience you want. Being on a jetski when you want to be on a high end sports boat, is not a great time.

 

[flash]

That’s a great price for an AXS bike. Do you think there’s maybe a reason they’re discounting it so much?

The TQ motor is very natural. It’s also the lowest assist bike available. Basically like eco on most bikes. You’ll certainly maintain your fitness. But you may still have trouble keeping up. And the smaller batteries can be a false weight saving if you need a range extender anyway.

If you went for a more powerful bike you have more options to control that power. ie: you won’t be toasting the battery in turbo all day. Maybe look at a Rise with the Shimano motor and ride it in eco or de-tune trail to suit your needs. There’s no rule that says you can’t get an Amflow and detune it to make you work harder. There’s apps for most bikes will allow this now.

Gordon

 

[Kiwiscoot]

I’ve not been on this forum too long but the general feeling is that the overwhelming number of members who post have a thirst for moar power and battery size.

I’m in the market for my first e-bike* and I’m definitely looking at SL/mid power as I just want a shove along, not for the bike to do the work. The logic, at risk of blowing my own, is that at nearly 55, I try to keep fit with other activities, which includes running. I’m no athlete, but I can run 10k in just under an hour. I can ride 20miles with 2000ft of climbing fairly easily.
So, is there a correlation between individual perceived or actual fitness, and desires for an e-bike spec? Individual fitness surely plays a part in bike range, the more you do, the less the battery and motor has to do. Likewise, rider weight, plays a big factor.

I don‘t want the transition to an e-bike to be detrimental to my own health and fitness.

*becaue my riding buddies have Orbea Rises and it’s just too hard work keeping up.

My experience at 63yo is that I ride further , more technical and faster than what I did on an analogue bike, I get just as puffed on the ebike as with an analogue bike, just further up the track or on a steeper incline. It opened way more exploring options.
check this out about ebike fitness.

 

[RustyIron]

I don‘t want the transition to an e-bike to be detrimental to my own health and fitness.

That's up to you, and doesn't have all that much to do with the bike. If you're a lollygagger who just moseys along on the AmishMounTainBike, you're probably going to ride the same way on an eMTB. If you ride your Amish bike with 100% effort, you'll probably end up doing the same on the eMounTainBike.

For me, I can ride the eMTB the same speed and do bigger rides than I could with the aMTB, which equals the same amount of exercise. Or I can ride the same rides and do it faster, which equals the same amount of exercise. I think that overall, the eMTB has made me HEALTHIER. On the Amish bike, there would be super technical and steep sections that would require 120% effort. Exerting oneself that hard can result in damaged joints, tendons, and muscles. I used to be sore ALL the time. Since going to eMTB's exclusively, the added power allows the completion of the same features without destroying my body.

 

[JP-NZ]

The TQ motor is very natural. It’s also the lowest assist bike available. Basically like eco on most bikes. You’ll certainly maintain your fitness. But you may still have trouble keeping up. And the smaller batteries can be a false weight saving if you need a range extender anyway.

As I own a TQ and Bosch Gen 4, the TQ in its highest mode its more like a Sport or tour+ on the Bosch. Definitely more powerful than Eco.

 

[Kepa]

That's up to you, and doesn't have all that much to do with the bike. If you're a lollygagger who just moseys along on the AmishMounTainBike, you're probably going to ride the same way on an eMTB. If you ride your Amish bike with 100% effort, you'll probably end up doing the same on the eMounTainBike.

For me, I can ride the eMTB the same speed and do bigger rides than I could with the aMTB, which equals the same amount of exercise. Or I can ride the same rides and do it faster, which equals the same amount of exercise. I think that overall, the eMTB has made me HEALTHIER. On the Amish bike, there would be super technical and steep sections that would require 120% effort. Exerting oneself that hard can result in damaged joints, tendons, and muscles. I used to be sore ALL the time. Since going to eMTB's exclusively, the added power allows the completion of the same features without destroying my body.

I live in alpine area, emtb allows me to ride multiple days in a row, with amtb it’s impossible. That’s why I bought the bike: to ride more and worry less.

 

[Chrysaor]

Probably a minority here but I went from a full to a SL due to the weight and handling.
I’m a roadie as well (10h/week) so fairly fit and light and the SL is more than enough to stay in zone 2 during recovery rides and funnier overall on alpine terrain.
Your weight also matters, if you are not very light the SL could make less sense.
But if your buddies ride Rises I would go for something similar. I have tried to run the full emtb with low power setting and it’s really boring while I can run the SL without assistance if I want.

 

[Plummet]

I common misconception is that more power = less effort. This is incorrect. More power = more speed. The effort you apply is not dictated by the motor it's dictated by you.

The only advantage of mid power is weight. Nothing else. Full power bikes can be run at mid power settings and provide more run time because they have bigger batteries, plus if you want to hoon faster you can.

 

[RustyIron]

More power = more speed. The effort you apply is not dictated by the motor it's dictated by you.

A benefit of the added speed when riding technical trails is the added upper-body workout. More miles at faster speeds really make you work hard.

 

[TwoWheeln]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/study-suggests-e-bikes-provide-a-similar-workout-to-regular-bikes.html

Pedal-Assist Mountain Bikes: A Pilot Study Comparison of the Exercise Response, Perceptions, and Beliefs of Experienced Mountain Bikers - PMC

Mountain biking is an aerobic physical activity that has experienced rapid growth. The emergence of the electric pedal-assist mountain bike (eMTB), while not without its critics, presents the potential for an even larger segment of the population to ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rockhopper70]

I common misconception is that more power = less effort. This is incorrect. More power = more speed. The effort you apply is not dictated by the motor it's dictated by you.

The only advantage of mid power is weight. Nothing else. Full power bikes can be run at mid power settings and provide more run time because they have bigger batteries, plus if you want to hoon faster you can.

Here in the UK assistance is capped at 15mph. A high power bike requires less effort to get to the speed cap.

 

[Kevjob51]

I have a rise h30 with about 175 miles on it new a motnh ago and a giant reign e+2 full power with 2K miles on it purchased 3 years ago. The rise is much more of a cardio and leg workout similar to mtb. Reign is more a full body workout die to being 56 lbs vs rise at 46 lbs. When I want to lap dh trails I use the reign when I trail ride I use rise.

 

[Plummet]

A benefit of the added speed when riding technical trails is the added upper-body workout. More miles at faster speeds really make you work hard.

Right on brother!

 

[Plummet]

Here in the UK assistance is capped at 15mph. A high power bike requires less effort to get to the speed cap.

The bike is just a tool. You choose how much effort you put in. Getting to 15mph will take less time on a full power bike in full power setting. Then continue to push.

I get that you don't understand this. You haven't spent time on an e bike to understand and you still are thinking like a mountain biker. "if i ride at the same speed on a higher power bike i'll use less energy".... though this is true, why on earth ride at the same speed? Go faster keep pushing. Don't slow down and recover at the top of a hill keep pushing. Hit the limiter keep pushing....... so forth and so on.

The power level the bike has available does not dictate your effort input. You do. If you are a lazy individual, sure you can put little input into a full power ebike and rip around with less effort at the same speed as a mid power guy putting effort in. Or you can choose to go a lot faster and put in the same or more effort than mid power guy... you can choose to lower power settings and take more effort to go the same speed. The choice is up to the human sitting on top of the bike, not the bike its self.

Full power also gives you an added dimension to be able to go faster as rusty iron explains takes more concentration, more upper body more climbs more descents more....... The most absolutely fried I have been is smashing full power full pace through continuous singletrack. I call it my brain melter rides, its total concentration total effort until you overload and your fry your brain... You cant really hit the brain melt on a mid power. You get to recover the mind on the uphill because you are going too slow to melt the brain.

I challenge you to go hire a full power e bike and then attempt a brain melter ride. Find a bike park with constant single track up and down and ride as fast as you humanly possibly can, dont ever slow down to rest keep pushing until the battery is flat. Report back to me and let me know your findings.

 

[steve_sordy]

My first venture into emtb increased my fitness!

Prior to that, arthritis in my knees. starting when I was 63, slowly but surely reduced the hill climbing and the distance per ride. I was already older than anyone else I rode with and I didn't want to slow them down on the one big day out per week that they had available to them, so I stopped doing group rides. I had the odd day out with one and occasionally two from that crowd, but basically, I was on my own. As the arthritis progressed, I changed my gearing and later, increased my painkillers to be able to keep doing what I loved. But eventually, I was down to a 10-mile ride with a three-day layoff to recover afterwards. I used to run cross country and also swim 5x week, race sailboards and consequently I have always been fit, so hobbling around was not my style! I hated it!

I was aware of emtbs, but resolutely stayed away from them. None of my mates had one and I also had all the usual prejudices against them. But then I rode one for 200 yards and I suddenly appreciated what they might have to offer! Subsequently I test rode about 8 different emtbs. That was in 2018. I was astonished at the variety, at the impact that the different motors had, the impact of the software, and the levers / rockers / buttons etc.

In Jan'19, the bike I chose was the one that made me feel like I used to feel and I where I could forget that I was on an e-bike and just ride like I used to do. That was a Focus Jam2 with a Shimano e8000 motor (my first 29er). It never went wrong and I did almost 3500 miles on it. I was reborn!

I rode that bike a lot and I not only recovered my fitness, but because I wasn't stressing my knee-joints quite as much, they started to recover so walking (and sleeping) was much easier. I see it as a win-win! And no more painkillers!

NOTE: My only regret from that time was that after a three month wait, I tried my old mtb and all my problems came back. So I sold the bike and I got a pittance for it. I didn't need that money to fund the emtb; instead, I should have kept it for my grandson to ride when he got a bit bigger; it would have saved me a fortune!

 

[Mikerb]

Whether you go for a SL type emtb or full fat largely depends on the type of trails you ride.............or indeed can ride.......ie steep up or downhill, rough and gnarly, technical v mild single track or gravel tracks.

Your level of fitness really needs more definition because you can have good aerobic fitness and stamina (e.g. from running) but does that translate into bike fitness?? I would say it certainly helps but it is not the full story because EMTB.........at least more enduro type EMTB requires both upper body and leg fitness+strength. Already pointed out above you may well be surpised at your heart rate, level of adrenaline, and muscle tiredness just a fter one 10 minute fast downhill run.............and that usually involves no pedalling or motor assist at all!.................but what goes down has to go back up.....repeat.....several times!

 

[lkdoido]

I’ve not been on this forum too long but the general feeling is that the overwhelming number of members who post have a thirst for moar power and battery size.

I’m in the market for my first e-bike* and I’m definitely looking at SL/mid power as I just want a shove along, not for the bike to do the work. The logic, at risk of blowing my own, is that at nearly 55, I try to keep fit with other activities, which includes running. I’m no athlete, but I can run 10k in just under an hour. I can ride 20miles with 2000ft of climbing fairly easily.
So, is there a correlation between individual perceived or actual fitness, and desires for an e-bike spec? Individual fitness surely plays a part in bike range, the more you do, the less the battery and motor has to do. Likewise, rider weight, plays a big factor.

I don‘t want the transition to an e-bike to be detrimental to my own health and fitness.

*becaue my riding buddies have Orbea Rises and it’s just too hard work keeping up.

My cycling partner and I have changed our style a lot in recent years, he focused on training and competition, and I focused on completing the rides with less strain on my knees. Given this scenario, I bought a Bafang M820 ebike with a 700Wh battery. We did a test the other day: 80km with 1500m of elevation, 50% on road and 50% off road. We finished the ride with an average of 24.5km/h, the stretch always limited by my partner's maximum. I used eco and trail modes, saving a lot of battery on the flats and descents and finished with 55%. For me, full power doesn't make sense because I'm practical for XCM.

 

[OZ-E]

The only reason to get a SL is to save weight but those lines are being blurred more and more. There is now only a couple KG between a SL and a full power bike.

When you have a full power bike you can customise the assistance to what ever your preference is. I would imagine you would get even fitter riding a full fat bike in Eco than a SL in turbo.

Only somebody who has never owned a SL would say this.

 

[russ_e]

Only somebody who has never owned a SL would say this.

So what is the difference between two bikes that weight the same?

 

[Plummet]

Only somebody who has never owned a SL would say this.

What other reasons if not weight?

Actually i can think of two.

1) Looks, It looks like more like a normal bike so you A) not get heckled as often for riding an E-Bike or B)You can sneak onto mtb only trails with less chance of being noticed.
2) Limiting power output. Because you don't have the self control to select lower power levels if you have higher levels available?

I really cant see any point in a sl bike that's close to a full power bike weight. There are only disadvantages from my point of view.

Disadvantages of sl e bikes from my perspective.

Less power levels options, Lower max power output. Missing out of additional uphill technical climbing opportunities that full power allows.
Smaller batteries limiting range, Usually non-removable batteries limiting charging options and further limiting ride time.

I'm very pleased i didnt go for mid or super light and went for full power with battery options so i can get close to mid power weight while still having the option of full power on tap.

 

[Snoggin]

I have both now , a Heckler SL and a brand new Bullit. I’ll be the HeckLee back soon with a new motor and it’s going to be interesting to compare. The Heckler SL I think feels a good bit smaller although both are a large. I like the Fazua motor a lot when it works right.
Ive been riding the Bullit all in EMTB mode for all my rides till today. Went on an 18 mile group ride at a place called Annadel and it was led by Mike “turbo “ Fitzpatrick ..73. Anyway I did that whole ride in turbo mode just to keep up. It’s pretty fun I have to say but I think Ill train in EMTB mode most of the time unless its a fire road. Or Im going for an ebike KOM lol

 

[Mikerb]

If you look just at riding the bike ( ie ignoring situations where you have to lift the bike) the mass that needs to overcome inertia to accelerate, and overcome gravity to climb, consists of bike plus rider. The dominant mass is in fact the rider given even a light rider will be more than 3 times the weight of a lightweight emtb. The average difference between a Sl emtb and a full fat is a bout 6kg but often as little as 3kg.

There are 2 other differentiators in terms of acceleration. One is the weight of the rotating mass..ie the wheels. Lighter wheels with lighter tyres means lower rotating mass. The other is wind resistance.

Downhill a heavier total mass carries more momentum.

Then we come to bike handling. There are 4 main elements. Stability, grip, ability to lift the bike, and cornering stability.
Stability and grip are both helped by extra mass.
Cornering stability is largely influenced by the position of the centre of gravity of the bike mass.....lower is better.
The ability to lift the bike..ie wheelie, bunny hop etc is easier with a lower bike mass.

So there is a lot more to consider when choosing between an SL and a full fat and it is easy to see from the above what terrain and rider preference would direct someone to one or the other.

 

[rushy46]

I own an Levo Sl and could not be happier. It‘s definetely different from a full fat but for me the downhill performance is the most Important thing. I tested full powered and I didn‘t like them - they felt like tanks to me. The Sl is nimble and is very close to my regular Enduro bike. Obviously I am slower uphill than on a Full fat and the range is not great - but that‘s something I can live with. Sl‘s Are definetely for people who want to forget that they use an ebike.