Levo Gen 4 Levo Gen 4 Rumours and some facts...

[Desert_Turtle]

I’m going to have to disagree that other companies have cheaper alternatives. The top of the line Vala is lesser spec’d but pretty much the same price and the Transition is pretty expensive for what you do get. While I love Transition bikes their new Regulator would cost me more than what I paid for my G4 SWorks once I added appropriate wheels and drivetrain. The argument that the Levo is more expensive than equal alternatives is really untrue. However, I totally agree that the bikes are expensive and the higher end bikes are definitely for certain types of people.

 

[DirkWisely]

I’m going to have to disagree that other companies have cheaper alternatives. The top of the line Vala is lesser spec’d but pretty much the same price and the Transition is pretty expensive for what you do get. While I love Transition bikes their new Regulator would cost me more than what I paid for my G4 SWorks once I added appropriate wheels and drivetrain. The argument that the Levo is more expensive than equal alternatives is really untrue. However, I totally agree that the bikes are expensive and the higher end bikes are definitely for certain types of people.

Santa Cruz is a pretty overpriced brand, to be fair.

 

[luna87824]

14000 $/£/€ for a bike is ALOT of money regardless of how deep your pockets are right now. It not covid times when non bikers found interest in getting outside and pick on something new as those people either phased out the sport or already have something labeled S works in the shed gathering dust. So I'm wondering how the hype will spread outside of this forum as for bike enthusiasts it will be a head scratcher on why pay that ridiculous amount on a bike that has its improvements no doubt but from the specs revealed it's not a game changer when good companies like Santa Cruz, Transition Trek and many other offer a good alternative for way less.

Yeah but it will go 15mph, hard to do with only 85 or 90nm.....

 

[Bogdan_CH]

Hope this is with irony

 

[Polar]

To a dealer? You know they sell them in bike shops in the countries they've launched in right?

Some bikeshops parallel import Amflow and do you think Amflow like it - see what Amflow say about it in the Amflow support thread.

 

[ckkone]

Santa Cruz is a pretty overpriced brand, to be fair.

Is it really though? I’ll let you go compare the full spec list but spoiler Vala spec is better and the bike costs less.

 

[oettam20]

If the new Levo motor is anything like the current one, you may be right:
View attachment 157099

As can be seen, the DJI Avinox will only produce ~100% of the peak power (850W) at a cadence of 95 or over, where the Brose motor only requires 55 rpm. But you also have to factor in rider power as DVI Avinox has a 800% assistance where the current Brose has 410%.

If you haven't already, check out the Velomotion channel: Velomotion Magazine EN

That was with the first firmware.
Now the graph from the same magazine is this:

Lets wait for the line of the new Levo….

 

[ah1]

If anyone needs more than 100Nm they should probably buy a motorcycle

 

[Double l]

111nm sounds just right to me

 

[Biano44]

If anyone needs more than 100Nm they should probably buy a motorcycle

“Electric bikes is just cheating”

SAME VIBE.

 

[winters3]

Was this already posted?

 

[Hitorogoshi]

the Nm does not phase me. My biggest gripe is the speed limit. I don't know how you EU folks can ride an eeb with that ghastly 25km/h speed limit.
I find 32km/h I'm already hitting a wall on certain trails. 40 would be perfect (I'm sure the gyros on these bikes are smart enough to tell we not going uphill) Why not remove the motor speed limiters going downhill and enable again when there is elevation? Anyways... back to the GEN 4 bashing lol

 

[Ou812]

Was this already posted?

View attachment 157105 View attachment 157106

Yes, those screen shots are from this thread…about 10 pages back or so. Crazy how fast they spread, I’m on 4 other forums and they showed up on all of them about an hour after being posted here.

 

[Citylad77]

To a dealer? You know they sell them in bike shops in the countries they've launched in right?

He has a point though, the shop any shop for that matter is only as good as the support from the supplier. My AMflow has been perfect but I do know one chap who’s new 3 weeks old AMflow was broken for nearly 6 weeks while waiting to be fixed, in the end the shop stripped down his own demo to fix the customer bike. I don’t mind paying a bit extra for the Spec S works taking into account the back up and support I have received over the past 6 years from my local Spec shop.

 

[Lightme]

You guys are idiots about the Amflow. Where do you go for dealer support?! It’s an ebike, shit breaks down eventually

I’d go to my dealer, obviously

 

[Biano44]

He has a point though, the shop any shop for that matter is only as good as the support from the supplier. My AMflow has been perfect but I do know one chap who’s new 3 weeks old AMflow was broken for nearly 6 weeks while waiting to be fixed, in the end the shop stripped down his own demo to fix the customer bike. I don’t mind paying a bit extra for the Spec S works taking into account the back up and support I have received over the past 6 years from my local Spec shop.

A decent dealer would have maybe acted much sooner than 6 weeks though.
It wouldn’t take much for said dealer to determine what was wrong, speak with the bike supplier and get an approx date for the spares to be supplied, or a solution (using parts off of the demo bike) for the customer.

6 weeks? Crazy. That dealer has put his own needs in front of the customers needs.

 

[Ribinrobin]

Remember how easy buying a bike was before motors and batteries

 

[Citylad77]

A decent dealer would have maybe acted much sooner than 6 weeks though.
It wouldn’t take much for said dealer to determine what was wrong, speak with the bike supplier and get an approx date for the spares to be supplied, or a solution (using parts off of the demo bike) for the customer.

6 weeks? Crazy. That dealer has put his own needs in front of the customers needs.

A decent dealer would have maybe acted much sooner than 6 weeks though.
It wouldn’t take much for said dealer to determine what was wrong, speak with the bike supplier and get an approx date for the spares to be supplied, or a solution (using parts off of the demo bike) for the customer.

6 weeks? Crazy. That dealer has put his own needs in front of the customers needs.

Apparently the fault could not be diagnosed.

 

[Citylad77]

So do we know the price of the S works here in UK, 12.5k? Also are the 2 launch colour Red with Black and Blue Black?

 

[Ouzzy]

So do we know the price of the S works here in UK, 12.5k? Also are the 2 launch colour Red with Black and Blue Black?

S-works 14.5k €uro

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

WOW... there are a lot of posts over the weekend.
Thank you to those that posted the specs .... It has really helped me decide...
I don't need 112nm and I don't want fast charting, I have also already build my G3 expert level to close to S-work spec.

This means I can get a Comp ..... put all my components over from my G3 expert over to the G4 comp....
and ill have a close to s-works specs G4 ... and I can then convert my G3 to wireless Shimano when it comes out.

Im rather exited for this new project. - This also depends on the colours... I must admit I tend to purchase my bike by colour and not spec...

 

[cream]

Also, I would expect they would install a dedicated charging port on the all new Levo. Can't imagine why they skipped that in all prior generations. Having to always disconnect the motor cable before charging, would shorten connector life and also connecting cable (fatigue because of constant flexing). So many problems with cables and connectors because of dirt, metallic parts inside (being magnetic), water. Also, a better sealed motor wouldn't hurt at the expense of 2-3% of more pedal resistance. Brose had virtually none, anyways...Way more resistance when water comes in and assistance stops
I wonder how's DJi motor in that respect( sealing).

 

[Citylad77]

Also, I would expect they would install a dedicated charging port on the all new Levo. Can't imagine why they skipped that in all prior generations. Having to always disconnect the motor cable before charging, would shorten connector life and also connecting cable (fatigue because of constant flexing). So many problems with cables and connectors because of dirt, metallic parts inside (being magnetic), water. Also, a better sealed motor wouldn't hurt at the expense of 2-3% of more pedal resistance. Brose had virtually none, anyways...Way more resistance when water comes in and assistance stops
I wonder how's DJi motor in that respect( sealing).

I jet wash my AMflow and have ridden through streams, no issues with water intake so far.

 

[Ou812]

So do we know the price of the S works here in UK, 12.5k? Also are the 2 launch colour Red with Black and Blue Black?

Don’t forget the turd brown bowling ball colour for the frame only version.

 

[Biano44]

S-works 14.5k €uro

 

[Ou812]

So do we know the price of the S works here in UK, 12.5k? Also are the 2 launch colour Red with Black and Blue Black?

I was told £14k for the S-Works and £12k for the Pro, that was a few weeks ago though. No idea if that’s changed or not.

 

[cream]

Now the graph from the same magazine is this:

That's output power/rider power graph, the one above it was output power/cadence. It would have been nice to see a torque/cadence graph also. But I guess they don't really measure the torque at the crank and they are using output data from motor electronics. Specialized gen2/3 will pull up to 20amps so will get to about 800W electrical power when the battery is fully charged.

 

[MonsterMX]

So do we know the price of the S works here in UK, 12.5k? Also are the 2 launch colour Red with Black and Blue Black?

3rd color at least from sheet is BLKPRL

 

[emtbeast]

That was with the first firmware.
Now the graph from the same magazine is this:

View attachment 157104
Lets wait for the line of the new Levo….

Sorry, but the guys saying the Levo could provide more torque at lower cadences are probably on to something. The guys from Specialized also pointed in one of their last year interviews they are working on a good cadence curve, also Brose motor was always good at that. This low down torque is mostly based on the motor mechanicals, not software-the larger the big internal motor gear the more torque down under there is, the previous Giant motor was/is also a good example.

To clear things a bit, the graph u posted is not the correct graph to compare to the other one:

The graph you are posting is Power based at almost(75-80) fixed Cadence input:

》Bike power output(vertical) based on Rider power input(horizontal)《.

The previous graph, the one you are answering to is Cadence based on fixed Power input:

》Bike power in %(vertical) based on Rider Cadence input(horizontal)《.


Shortly, the base for the graph is different so you can't compare it, one is a so called Power Curve the other ia a Cadence Curve.

Unfortunately Velomotion Magazin didn't include the Cadence Curve Graph in their video done after the Amflow software update, I don't know why, maybe they could provide one if asked.

 

[Biano44]

Sorry, but the guys saying the Levo could provide more torque at lower cadences are probably on to something. The guys from Specialized also pointed in one of their last year interviews they are working on a good cadence curve, also Brose motor was always good at that. This low down torque is mostly based on the motor mechanicals, not software-the larger the big internal motor gear the more torque down under there is, the previous Giant motor was/is also a good example.

To clear things a bit, the graph u posted is not the correct graph to compare to the other one:

The graph you are posting is Power based at almost(75-80) fixed Cadence input:

》Bike power output(vertical) based on Rider power input(horizontal)《.
View attachment 157111
The previous graph, the one you are answering to is Cadence based on fixed Power input:

》Bike power in %(vertical) based on Rider Cadence input(horizontal)《.
View attachment 157112

Shortly, the base for the graph is different so you can't compare it, one is a so called Power Curve the other ia a Cadence Curve.

Unfortunately Velomotion Magazin didn't include the Cadence Curve Graph in their video done after the Amflow software update, I don't know whay, maybe they could provide one if asked.

Velomotion Magazine?
The YouTube channel with only 2 full form videos?
One video that questions Bosch motors and one video that praises DJI?

Mmmm……..not suspicious at all.