Autoshift on the Shimano XT di2 + EP801

[Astro66]

No new Shimano bikes with auto-shift installed on the market so far - at least that I can (can't) find.

I think the problem is the inability to get a 12 speed transmission with AutoShift. Most of the bikes with Di2 shifting are on the upper end of the manufacturers range. And at the upper end of the range. People are looking for 12 speed transmissions, even if just for resale value.

As I said. I've been told by two reliable sources within Shimano, that this issue should be addressed shortly by Shimano. Which should see many more bikes coming out with Autoshift, as it will be available in 12 speed.

Fingers crossed.

 

[2stroked]

I'm in the process of installing the 12 speed XT Di2 on a brand new Merida e160 700, with an EP6 motor. Shimano doesn't make it easy. Thankfully the shop I bought the bike from is being helpful, loaning me the programming cable so I can switch the motor to accept electronic shifting.

I won't have Autoshift. But I will have Freeshift, which is what I really want.

I converted my bike to 11 speed to try autoshift but I usually run it so it’s freeshift because the autoshift does shift the way I want even after playing with the setting. It is supposed to learn when running it in manual mode but it seems the same when I set back to auto. I might switch i back to 12 speed but I do like the linkglide

 

[Astro66]

I converted my bike to 11 speed to try autoshift but I usually run it so it’s freeshift because the autoshift does shift the way I want even after playing with the setting. It is supposed to learn when running it in manual mode but it seems the same when I set back to auto. I might switch i back to 12 speed but I do like the linkglide

That was my concern with Autoshift. That it wasn't shifting when I wanted it to.

I just watched a EMBN video that said YT Decoy EBikes, were only installing hyperglide+ 12 speed cassettes on their new bikes, because they preferred the snappy shifting of hyperglide+, and only getting Freeshift, rather than installing Linkglide 11 speed and getting Autoshift.

So I definitely think I made the right call getting the 12 speed Di2 derailleur, and If they bring out a 12 speed Linkglide cassette, I'll try it. But I'm thinking I'll end up sticking with the Hyperglide+ cassette, and forego Autoshift . The shifting is just so nice with the XT Di2 derailleur, and Hyperglide+ cassette.

Let's see what comes out.

 

[Suteki]

No new Shimano bikes with auto-shift installed on the market so far - at least that I can (can't) find.

I feel like the problem here is the manufacturers and the way they are speccing bikes. An obvious example for me is the current Merida E160 CF line up. It seems like as soon as you go to the highest spec bike, they need to justify the price so you end up with some XO T-Type transmission from SRAM; to me that seems like an obvious miss given that the bike is Shimano powered; so you would think the better option would be to fit it with the XT Di2 Linkglide; if you're going to build a bike around the EP801, why would you not spec that and get AutoShift and Freeshift? What's the benefit of the far more expensive SRAM transmission? By all accounts the SRAM transmission is fantastic, but with it you lose any benefit of the EP801 features, where a cheaper Di2 Shimano groupset will give you the full features of the EP801.

To me, that doesn't make any sense. I actually ordered the Merida E160 CF 7K and I'm still a little bewildered that they would spec it with the non-Di2 XT Linkglide. But then if they did, that would probly make you question why the top spec 10K misses out on AutoShift and Freeshift.

In any case, I went with the 7K and will be replacing the non-Di2 XT components with the Di2 models to enable Autoshift and Freeshift. Seems kind of pointless to have that level of spec and NOT use the EP801 to it's potential.

I see the same thing with other brands to an extent where the top of the range models come with SRAM transmissions instead of being Di2 enabled on Shimano EP801 equipped bikes.

Just odd to me.

 

[Mudrider]

I don't think autoshift has been that well received by the mtb community, Especially by experienced mtber's, there the one that are likely to buy a top end bike. Its almost seen like its a feature for novice riders, or it doesn't really work well enough for people to thoroughly use it. I wonder what the latest update has brought. Also for an aesthetics point of view which alot of people will feel is important sram t-type just looks nicer.

I'm just about to drop it on my bike and look foward to see how good it really is, i use my bike to commute to work alot of the time so i'm hoping its been worth me investing in.

 

[Astro66]

I don't think autoshift has been that well received by the mtb community,

Shimano have modified Autoshift and Freeshift in the new 4.3 firmware upgrade. I only have Freeshift, due to the 12 speed derailleur. It's supposed to respond quicker to changing loads and speed.

I use Freeshift when just cruising on XC trails, and down hilling. But use manual shift when up hilling or in technical sections.

Being able to manually shift whilst keeping your pedals flat, and not pedalling, is a really handy feature.

I looked at putting SRAM AXS when doing the Di2 upgrade. But the bottom of the range 12 speed SRAM was $900, whilst the top of the range 12 speed Di2 XT Derailleur and Shifter was $700, and I never have to charge the Di2 unit, as it uses the Motor battery.

It gives all the extra features, and keeps the entire drivetrain Shimano, so if there ever is a problem, I only have to deal with Shimano.

 

[2stroked]

That was my concern with Autoshift. That it wasn't shifting when I wanted it to.

I just watched a EMBN video that said YT Decoy EBikes, were only installing hyperglide+ 12 speed cassettes on their new bikes, because they preferred the snappy shifting of hyperglide+, and only getting Freeshift, rather than installing Linkglide 11 speed and getting Autoshift.

So I definitely think I made the right call getting the 12 speed Di2 derailleur, and If they bring out a 12 speed Linkglide cassette, I'll try it. But I'm thinking I'll end up sticking with the Hyperglide+ cassette, and forego Autoshift . The shifting is just so nice with the XT Di2 derailleur, and Hyperglide+ cassette.

Let's see what comes out.

Another issue I have found is because the gearing ratio jumps quite a bit in the 3 lowest gears it tends to skip under load and not shift and I end up having to get off and get the chain back on if that makes sense

 

[kla456]

Another issue I have found is because the gearing ratio jumps quite a bit in the 3 lowest gears it tends to skip under load and not shift and I end up having to get off and get the chain back on if that makes sense

I last week backed off buying a new 23kg 11 speed bike with EP801 for conversion to Autoshifting, due to some of these comments and the obvious lack of industry take-up (I don't know of any bike with factory-installed Shimano autoshifting). But I'm still committed to Shimano EP801+autoshifting - just wait a bit longer to see what happens, and if a 20kg bike might appear with this kit.

 

[Astro66]

But I'm still committed to Shimano EP801+autoshifting

Autoshifting is not why I upgraded to Shimano electronic shifting on my EP6. It's the ability to shift whilst coasting that I'm using the most. That and how fast I can shift multiple gears.

If you trigger shift using the Di2 shifter. You can shift gears as fast as you can mouse press repeatedly. But that is with the Hyperglide+ cassette. Obviously super fast bursts of more than 3 or 4 gears, is not advisable. But looking ahead and realising an alternate line you want to take, requires you to shift down 2 or 3 gears really quickly, is really handy to be able to do. It gives you much more flexibility on line choices.

Both Autoshift and Freeshift is more for making the ride more relaxing, IMO. Less thought and looking ahead.

 

[Mudrider]

Autoshifting is not why I upgraded to Shimano electronic shifting on my EP6. It's the ability to shift whilst coasting that I'm using the most. That and how fast I can shift multiple gears.

If you trigger shift using the Di2 shifter. You can shift gears as fast as you can mouse press repeatedly. But that is with the Hyperglide+ cassette. Obviously super fast bursts of more than 3 or 4 gears, is not advisable. But looking ahead and realising an alternate line you want to take, requires you to shift down 2 or 3 gears really quickly, is really handy to be able to do. It gives you much more flexibility on line choices.

Both Autoshift and Freeshift is more for making the ride more relaxing, IMO. Less thought and looking ahead.

you don't need to trigger shift you can just hold the shift button down

 

[Astro66]

you don't need to trigger shift you can just hold the shift button down

Yes. But it shifts slower, when you just hold it.

If you press and release, then press again. It will shift as fast as you can multi-press.

 

[Suteki]

I last week backed off buying a new 23kg 11 speed bike with EP801 for conversion to Autoshifting, due to some of these comments and the obvious lack of industry take-up (I don't know of any bike with factory-installed Shimano autoshifting). But I'm still committed to Shimano EP801+autoshifting - just wait a bit longer to see what happens, and if a 20kg bike might appear with this kit.

I'll let you know how I go, I'm basically doing just this now. I haven't picked it up yet (just got to see if my bike is wrapped and then I believe it's ready for pick up, don't think its wrapped yet going by this pic). But I ditched the stock XT shifter and derailluer and the Di2 XT are on there now. When I get it I just need to switch over to my carbon wheels and factory fork and it should be good to go.

 

[Astro66]

This is the thing. I paid $AUD5800 for my Merida E160. Cost me $AUD700 to fit 12 speed Di2 XT Derailleur and Shifter, myself. So that's $AUD6500 for an Aluminium E160 with Di2 Electronic shifting, giving FreeShift and Manual shift whilst coasting.

The only E160 in Australia with electronic shifting is $AUD15,000. And they have stuck SRAM AXS on it, so you don't get the Shimano integration of Autoshift, Freeshift and Manual shifting whilst coasting.

The cheapest Di2 EMTB in Australia is AUD$9,000. And that is the Polygon through bikes online, and so I don't get my LBS support.

 

[Mudrider]

Yes. But it shifts slower, when you just hold it.

If you press and release, then press again. It will shift as fast as you can multi-press.

Not sure if you are aware but you can adjust the speed in the app for the multishift

 

[Suteki]

Ok so bike is here; I have a few things to do though, change forks, cranks and front wheel (store did the other bits) but it's currently 8pm and flippin freezing out in the shed, so I'll brave it but I won't have anything to mention with respect to Auto and Freeshift till tomorrow most likely as I wont really get to ride till then

 

[Oppa]

Hi,

Who has tested the Autoshift mode on the XT Linglide Di2 transmission, coupled to EP801 motor ?
How does it work in real life ? What about gear shift under full load ? And maintenance ?
What mileage do you get on it ? I'm really curious about the frequency of cassette/chain replacement.

Any feedback will be highly appreciated

I converted my 2023 Orbea Rise to

Hi,

Who has tested the Autoshift mode on the XT Linglide Di2 transmission, coupled to EP801 motor ?
How does it work in real life ? What about gear shift under full load ? And maintenance ?
What mileage do you get on it ? I'm really curious about the frequency of cassette/chain replacement.

Any feedback will be highly appreciated

hi I converted my 2023 Orbea rise to the di2 connected to the Shimano 801. Mine is a 12 speed so it doesn’t support full auto shift as does the 11 speed cassette, not sure why Shimano has not figured out how to modify the software for a 12 speed. I have been running it for about 2 months so can’t speak to durability. In terms of operation it’s pretty slick for shifting, smooth and can move across the cassette fast. The free shifting isn’t bad sort of a hybrid auto shift. Other than that no regrets at the moment. It was a bit pricy for the components cabling etc. There are some software changes that have to be made to your 801 don’t recognizes the new components which cannot be done through the Etube app. Had to go to my local shop and they got on the phone with Shimano to make the changes. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Astro66]

not sure why Shimano has not figured out how to modify the software for a 12 speed.

It's not the software. It's the cassette. There is no Linkglide 12 speed cassette. And only the linkglide cassette can handle shifting under load. So Shimano have disabled Autoshift when you fit a 12 speed Di2 derailleur.

Shifting under load with the Motor in Boost, would destroy a Hyperglide+ cassette very quickly.

 

[Astro66]

Not sure if you are aware but you can adjust the speed in the app for the multishift

I have tried using the multishift. But for me, I find it's hard to get an exact amount of gears changed. By multi-pressing. I can press 3 times really quickly, and I know I will downshift 3 gears and thus know exactly which gear I'm going to end up in.

I use the E-Tube ride App and have the Gear I'm in, displayed in big letter, on my quad locked phone. <Old eyes >I find when I'm coasting downhill on a technical trail, and come to an uphill climb, I can forget what gear I was in, when I started the downhill.

So I quickly glance down, see the gear. Then press the downshift the exact amount of presses, to get me to the exact gear I believe I need for the uphill line I'm going to take. I find this shortens the time I'm focused on my gear change, as I just press the button the number of times I need, and just know the bike is going to be in the right gear.

I'm sure multishift could work for some. But I just find multi-press works better for me.

Here you can see how big the Gear Number is in the Etube ride App, compared with on the Shimano Display.

 

[Suteki]

Well, it's home now. Got a few of the upgrades from my previous bike on also.

Being that it decided to rain the second after I took this pic and I didnt get to really ride the trail, I had a very quick lap at the skills park and when I got home up and down the street.
Tried Manual with Freeshift
Full Auto Shift
Auto with shifting enabled only when not pedalling.

General shifting; It's definitely not as fast as smashing through a 12spd Hyperglide with rapidshift shifter (honestly it's not that far off it though), but it is certainly significantly smoother. Even shifting under load I thought would be horrible but its not, it's actually very smooth. I didnt set it up either and looking at the settings there's been no microadjustments made so I should probably toy with it just to see. I did play with the settings just to see where and what everything does and it's actually quite intuitive; not as straight forward as T-Type from SRAM but gives a better idea of what is going on.

Manual with Freeshift - it's basically just like a regular shifter, except so long as the bike is rolling you can change gears without pedalling. Honestly this mode alone with worth the Di2 imo. Easy, no fuss. Coasting to a stop, just dump all the gears as you pull up. Going down hill and want to stay pedal level, shift up through all the gears so you can get straight back onto the power. I've only been playing around with the system for maybe a half hour and I'm not sure I would want to ride without it. It's just super conventient.

Auto (shifting only when not pedalling). Basically the same as Manual but relying on the set you choose. I like it in that you don't really need to think too much about whats happening and it just does it's thing in the background. From the limited time I used it; you probably need to really tune this (and full Auto in) before you get the most from these Auto modes. I believe I have it setup to more aggressively chase cadence with gear changes but it still felt like it wanted to hold gears more than if I had been in control in manual. Maybe I haven't workout out the settings entirely correctly for me, or maybe Shimano need to create a mode with tighter tolerances on cadence variation before it's entirely set and forget. Being able to anticipate definitely means Manual is still the best method but this mode I feel like will be a lot more handy when focus is more on riding down a trail and concentrating to let the bike take over while your focus is elsewhere.

Full Auto is the blacksheep I feel. It was good up and down the road and it did exactly as I expected. It had a tendency to want to gear hunt a bit and didnt really keep in the pedal zone I would prefer as I went from sometimes feeling like I was pedalling to hard and wanted another gear down or not pedalling hard enough and I wanted another gear or two up. I think for mild trails or generally just cruising along lower gradients or fireroads this would be useful.

All of that come swith the caveat that I didn't get to use any real proper Blue / Black trails and I can probably play with the settings some more. In general though, I reckon I will spend 95% of my rides in Auto with shifting only when not pedalling as it combines the best of Manual with the bonus of keeping an eye on the cadence range for you when you are too busy otherwise, while I might spend 5% jsut on fireroads or mellow climbs.

 

[Astro66]

I didnt set it up either and looking at the settings there's been no microadjustments made so I should probably toy with it just to see.

I'm at -2, as I want the shifts up the cassette to be the smoothest and fastest. I initially was at -1. But have been running -2 and find it really snappy moving up the cassette. I do have hyperglide+.

I found setting the Bscrew a little closer than the marked line, also improved smoothness and speed of shifting.

I've probably put 200km on the bike with the current settings, and I'm pretty happy I have maximised the shifting.

It's great to know that you shouldn't have to play with shifting, like you do with cables, as cables stretch. Once you have the Di2 shifter dialled in. It should remain spot on, till cassette and chain need replacing, or you get a serious impact on the derailleur.

I'm moving further away from trying 11 speed Linkglide and Autoshift. I will try it if Shimano bring out a 12 speed linkglide with Micro Spline hub interface, and update the Motor Firmware. That way I can go back to Hyperglide+ with a simple cassette change.

 

[kla456]

Well, it's home now. Got a few of the upgrades from my previous bike on also.

Being that it decided to rain the second after I took this pic and I didnt get to really ride the trail, I had a very quick lap at the skills park and when I got home up and down the street.
Tried Manual with Freeshift
Full Auto Shift
Auto with shifting enabled only when not pedalling.

General shifting; It's definitely not as fast as smashing through a 12spd Hyperglide with rapidshift shifter (honestly it's not that far off it though), but it is certainly significantly smoother. Even shifting under load I thought would be horrible but its not, it's actually very smooth. I didnt set it up either and looking at the settings there's been no microadjustments made so I should probably toy with it just to see. I did play with the settings just to see where and what everything does and it's actually quite intuitive; not as straight forward as T-Type from SRAM but gives a better idea of what is going on.

Manual with Freeshift - it's basically just like a regular shifter, except so long as the bike is rolling you can change gears without pedalling. Honestly this mode alone with worth the Di2 imo. Easy, no fuss. Coasting to a stop, just dump all the gears as you pull up. Going down hill and want to stay pedal level, shift up through all the gears so you can get straight back onto the power. I've only been playing around with the system for maybe a half hour and I'm not sure I would want to ride without it. It's just super conventient.

Auto (shifting only when not pedalling). Basically the same as Manual but relying on the set you choose. I like it in that you don't really need to think too much about whats happening and it just does it's thing in the background. From the limited time I used it; you probably need to really tune this (and full Auto in) before you get the most from these Auto modes. I believe I have it setup to more aggressively chase cadence with gear changes but it still felt like it wanted to hold gears more than if I had been in control in manual. Maybe I haven't workout out the settings entirely correctly for me, or maybe Shimano need to create a mode with tighter tolerances on cadence variation before it's entirely set and forget. Being able to anticipate definitely means Manual is still the best method but this mode I feel like will be a lot more handy when focus is more on riding down a trail and concentrating to let the bike take over while your focus is elsewhere.

Full Auto is the blacksheep I feel. It was good up and down the road and it did exactly as I expected. It had a tendency to want to gear hunt a bit and didnt really keep in the pedal zone I would prefer as I went from sometimes feeling like I was pedalling to hard and wanted another gear down or not pedalling hard enough and I wanted another gear or two up. I think for mild trails or generally just cruising along lower gradients or fireroads this would be useful.

All of that come swith the caveat that I didn't get to use any real proper Blue / Black trails and I can probably play with the settings some more. In general though, I reckon I will spend 95% of my rides in Auto with shifting only when not pedalling as it combines the best of Manual with the bonus of keeping an eye on the cadence range for you when you are too busy otherwise, while I might spend 5% jsut on fireroads or mellow climbs.

View attachment 143990

Good, a well detailed review. Look forward to your next report and how it works climbing (see Stephen Jones review at top of this

Well, it's home now. Got a few of the upgrades from my previous bike on also.

Being that it decided to rain the second after I took this pic and I didnt get to really ride the trail, I had a very quick lap at the skills park and when I got home up and down the street.
Tried Manual with Freeshift
Full Auto Shift
Auto with shifting enabled only when not pedalling.

General shifting; It's definitely not as fast as smashing through a 12spd Hyperglide with rapidshift shifter (honestly it's not that far off it though), but it is certainly significantly smoother. Even shifting under load I thought would be horrible but its not, it's actually very smooth. I didnt set it up either and looking at the settings there's been no microadjustments made so I should probably toy with it just to see. I did play with the settings just to see where and what everything does and it's actually quite intuitive; not as straight forward as T-Type from SRAM but gives a better idea of what is going on.

Manual with Freeshift - it's basically just like a regular shifter, except so long as the bike is rolling you can change gears without pedalling. Honestly this mode alone with worth the Di2 imo. Easy, no fuss. Coasting to a stop, just dump all the gears as you pull up. Going down hill and want to stay pedal level, shift up through all the gears so you can get straight back onto the power. I've only been playing around with the system for maybe a half hour and I'm not sure I would want to ride without it. It's just super conventient.

Auto (shifting only when not pedalling). Basically the same as Manual but relying on the set you choose. I like it in that you don't really need to think too much about whats happening and it just does it's thing in the background. From the limited time I used it; you probably need to really tune this (and full Auto in) before you get the most from these Auto modes. I believe I have it setup to more aggressively chase cadence with gear changes but it still felt like it wanted to hold gears more than if I had been in control in manual. Maybe I haven't workout out the settings entirely correctly for me, or maybe Shimano need to create a mode with tighter tolerances on cadence variation before it's entirely set and forget. Being able to anticipate definitely means Manual is still the best method but this mode I feel like will be a lot more handy when focus is more on riding down a trail and concentrating to let the bike take over while your focus is elsewhere.

Full Auto is the blacksheep I feel. It was good up and down the road and it did exactly as I expected. It had a tendency to want to gear hunt a bit and didnt really keep in the pedal zone I would prefer as I went from sometimes feeling like I was pedalling to hard and wanted another gear down or not pedalling hard enough and I wanted another gear or two up. I think for mild trails or generally just cruising along lower gradients or fireroads this would be useful.

All of that come swith the caveat that I didn't get to use any real proper Blue / Black trails and I can probably play with the settings some more. In general though, I reckon I will spend 95% of my rides in Auto with shifting only when not pedalling as it combines the best of Manual with the bonus of keeping an eye on the cadence range for you when you are too busy otherwise, while I might spend 5% jsut on fireroads or mellow climbs.

View attachment 143990

Nice report. Have you tried climbing a-la Stephen Jones' video (first post at top this discussion)?

 

[Suteki]

Out at the moment.

I am really impressed, like surprisingly so. I expected the full auto mode to be horrible but it's not, not at all.

Still needs a lot of find tuning but I genuinely did not expect it to be as useful as it is.

Will have a video of the first day out soon

 

[Suteki]

My thoughts after the first day out riding

The first ride for context

 

[Mudrider]

I silenced the beeping before adding the di2 didn't realised it beeped every time it shifted couldn't be putting up with that!

 

[Suteki]

I silenced the beeping before adding the di2 didn't realised it beeped every time it shifted couldn't be putting up with that!

Yeh I will turn it off, left it on for the day just to get an idea of what the system was doing like when, where and how often it changed.

 

[kla456]

Out at the moment.

I am really impressed, like surprisingly so. I expected the full auto mode to be horrible but it's not, not at all.

Still needs a lot of find tuning but I genuinely did not expect it to be as useful as it is.

Will have a video of the first day out soon

Great review Suteki, all angles straight-talking full-on sausage, not sizzle with You Tube adverts and a manufacturer's influencer fee - You could probable reduce (half) the video length and still cover all points. But I'm sold on it - off to deal with LBS now. All-in-all great reviews and many thanks.

 

[Suteki]

Great review Suteki, all angles straight-talking full-on sausage, not sizzle with You Tube adverts and a manufacturer's influencer fee - You could probable reduce (half) the video length and still cover all points. But I'm sold on it - off to deal with LBS now. All-in-all great reviews and many thanks.

Yeh I do waffle abit but general points are there. It does what it does and it does it very well. If it weren't for the beeps (left on because I wanted to understand the way it reacts) you literally wouldn't notice it and just almost forget its on.

Being able to pre-empt big changes in the need to shift gears with abrupt elevation changes will obviously beat the system, but getting it well setup will get you to a point where you can pretty much 'set and forget' for the absolute majority of the ride.

I was surprised how well it worked and only touched it when I very rapidly came to a stop or needed to climb somewhere steep because I can obviously see it rather than be reactionary; and in those instances Freeshift just made it so seamless.

For the cost of the system if you have a Shimanl equipped bike, it's absolutely worth it.

Also so super smooth in gear changes

 

[2stroked]

you don't need to trigger shift you can just hold the shift button down

There is options for 2 or 3 shifts at a time as well as unlimited if the shifter is held as we as the speed of the shifts

 

[PeymanD]

I installed Autoshift on my YT Decoy Core 5 2024. So far, I am tuning it to get better shifting, but it works fairly well as of now.

A quick rundown of the process of upgrading to Autoshift: I had to change Freehub from micro spline to HG, which I did not like. I changed the cassette, derailleur, and chain to the Linkglide versions. The rest of the components were already Autoshift/Linkglide compatible (12-speed Hyperglide+ XT di2 came with the bike, which is an awesome drive train, btw). At last, I had to update the software to enable Autoshift.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[MateNako]

My N8Xe comes with Di2 but no auto-shift due to 12 gear cassette, nevertheless IMO auto-shift is pointless as coast-shift if where it is at
It is such a game changer on my local trails that are very wavy.
Everyone who hates this technology simply did not spend time trying it out.
Shit is BUSSIN