I learned in my California geography class that the Bay area is not 98% of the state. I also know that whats happening in the Bay area has very little to do with the state of ebiking in the US, as the OP titled his post.
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The State of eMTB in USA
- Thread starter jhumphries79
- Start date
We generally do what we can to limit the amount of "political" talk within the forum - mainly, because it's a EMTB forum and 99% of people get on with each other - no matter they're political views. We all share a common passion.
This thread is a little different as it has many "opinions" - left, right, centre, up, down.
It's not for us to decide who's opinion is BS/Correct/Was correct once/Might be correct one day. You're all entitled to your opinions.
Ideally, if you see something which is factually incorrect, you either ignore it - because you won't win an argument with an idiot. Or you present facts which prove the situation to be otherwise.
Any thread like this will upset some people because there are so many contrary view points.
Peoples emotions come out and not good ones like "So stoked !" ..
When someone says something like "so they can control everything and everyone" - then someone else says - "I hope you delete his post and him" - it just proves someone's point rather than actually laying out some facts.
Yes - the thread is being monitored. Yes, it's emotionally charged. Hopefully there's enough intelligent people here that the thread can continue in a rational way otherwise it will just be locked.
Mabman
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
This is just a typical MTBR thread.
JetSedgwick
E*POWAH Master
fair
Heading to Sedona AZ this weekend was all pumped to bring my Orbea rise until I found articles from 2021 saying ebikes are banned in that area. Very surprised being AZ, have not run into this before. Anyone know if this is enforced and legit information? Wouldn't be the end of the world to have to ride my non e-bike but...
Been there twice with my ebike. Yes, lots of signs, but no one said anything and so much fun. Just be respectful and I doubt anyone will say a word.
To help answer the OPs concerns about the state of emtb trail access in the US, the US Forest Service said this just a few months ago. Id say it indicates that the future of emtb trail access in the US is promising, with some caveats:
New Forest Service E-Bike Ruling: Potential Access to Non-Motorized Trails
On March 31, the U.S. Forest Service issued a final directive to clarify the use and management of electric mountain bikes on National Forest System lands.
This new ruling could mean the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) reclassifying certain National Forest System (NFS) trails and roads as motorized instead of carving out an exception that would grant electric mountain bikes (eMTBs) access. This is a significant and problematic difference, according to some experts.
The directive provides more explicit e-bike guidance but also floats the possibility of granting e-bike access to traditionally motor-free trails on a case-by-case basis. Regional authorities, environmental analysis, and public input will all be necessary to determine whether expanded eMTB access is desirable at the local level.
The USFS stated in its press release:
New Forest Service E-Bike Ruling: Potential Access to Non-Motorized Trails
On March 31, the U.S. Forest Service issued a final directive to clarify the use and management of electric mountain bikes on National Forest System lands.
This new ruling could mean the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) reclassifying certain National Forest System (NFS) trails and roads as motorized instead of carving out an exception that would grant electric mountain bikes (eMTBs) access. This is a significant and problematic difference, according to some experts.
The directive provides more explicit e-bike guidance but also floats the possibility of granting e-bike access to traditionally motor-free trails on a case-by-case basis. Regional authorities, environmental analysis, and public input will all be necessary to determine whether expanded eMTB access is desirable at the local level.
The USFS stated in its press release:
Mabman
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
"reclassifying certain National Forest System (NFS) trails and roads as motorized instead of carving out an exception that would grant electric mountain bikes (eMTBs) access. This is a significant and problematic difference, according to some experts."
No Duh. That is such a dumb idea that it could only have originated in the halls of gov't.
"If those pesky eBikes can get access to trails then we as tax paying side by siders should have the same access" "Let's make the trail even bigger so that Jeeps can join in." Ad Nauseum.....
I know it goes against the grain of the anti crowd but the laws that make the most sense to me ignore the fact that eBikes have a motor, mainly because it is so insignificant at less than 1hp in all legal cases, in the grand scheme of things.
No Duh. That is such a dumb idea that it could only have originated in the halls of gov't.
"If those pesky eBikes can get access to trails then we as tax paying side by siders should have the same access" "Let's make the trail even bigger so that Jeeps can join in." Ad Nauseum.....
I know it goes against the grain of the anti crowd but the laws that make the most sense to me ignore the fact that eBikes have a motor, mainly because it is so insignificant at less than 1hp in all legal cases, in the grand scheme of things.
JetSedgwick
E*POWAH Master
maybe they should have taught you that the Bay Area is roughly 25% of the state by population, therefore ~25% of the people that live in CA are in areas that are relevant to what the OP was discussing.
jhumphries79
Member
- Thread starter
- #69
A little background to the 98% comment - I was given a citation by a park ranger in the Mid-Peninsula foothills for "no leash", when I was kilometres from the nearest public road and private residence. I asked about the e-bike signs and he stated that according to his department, "only fire roads" allow e-bikes.
Being ignorant of the term, he informed me that "only about 2% of public-usage lands is fire roads" to which I replied, "so that means 98% of all state parks, public lands and unincorporated areas in the state of California do not legally allow the usage of motorised two-wheeled machines". He then stated, "since the classification of ebikes is still murky, folks in my department will cite anyone on those (ebikes) if found on those (98%) areas"
Apologies, for I was using logical deduction whilst being cited for not having my 5kg pup on a leash and not trying to be sensational by any stretch of the imagination. The ranger tried to chat me up, asking about my dog breed and I just turned on my heel and left with my fugitive pup on leash.
So yes, according to this park ranger, ride a eMTB at your own risk in California. What was not expected was the sheer volume of stories from riders across the lower 48 and the West Coast, informing me of veritable cacophony of vague legislations and outspoken opponents (dressage riders?!) to our beloved eMTBs. This seems to be, verily so, a political as well as social issue, yet albeit genuinely American problem as well. And I have read all your comments and have thoroughly enjoyed the banter and anecdotes.
Yesterday, I read an article from Ian Bogost, eviscerating our sport as a complete farce, stating:
"e-bikes are trapped in the weird smear between pathetic, loser bicycles and pitiable, low-end motorbikes. Especially in America, where bike infrastructure is far less developed than in the small, flat nations of Northern Europe that cycling advocates like to exalt as a model, e-bikes have become kind of a nuisance."
Source - https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...lectric-bikes-climate-change-exercise/671305/
As a 22y motorcycle rider, life-long trail runner and dog owner, and now totally amateur yet very happy Focus enduro bike owner, I am very respectful ( as are most of you on this forum) of those whom we share the trails with. Yet I am speaking from the comfort of La République, where seemingly every other bike is an ebike, roads and trails. I guess what remains is how will the lower 48 contend with the inevitable - ebikes and eMTBs are the future.
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jhumphries79
Member
- Thread starter
- #70
Thanks! I have always loved SC bikes and been pining over those Hecklers for a minute, like since the 90s. And when I return next summer, I will certainly PM prior to my visit from over the hill.
jhumphries79
Member
- Thread starter
- #71
Happy to hear Colorado is making sense of the situation but . . . mountain bikes were illegal?
So the OP was only off by 73% if he was talking about Calif , but read the thread title. And I said that the Bay area has little to do with the state of mountain biking in the US, I didnt say California. You get an F!
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Rod B.
E*POWAH Master
I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative. Not all of San Diego County area is fully open to eBikes, unless you subscribe to the "I'll ride my eBike where I please, you never see a ranger, San Diego." I love Noble Canyon and the Big Laguna area in Palomar. I got jammed up and lectured to by a ranger when he stopped me while I was on my eBike.
Dan202B
Member
A group of friends got fined at Lake Del Valle in Livermore, CA. I was not there that day. The fine was over 300 but I forgot exactly what he said. My understanding is it had nothing to do with Ebike but rather being off the marked accepted trails. If they were on analog bikes they could have been ticketed too. Pleasanton Ridge near by tickets people too.
EnduroDad2k
Active member
Nor Cal is a world of its own, extreme environmentalists want to shut down all public access, even hiking. The discourse includes terms like “amount of pressure exerted on the trail” even if the trail is 100 years old.
Then add US private property laws where the thought of letting someone set foot on your land is preposterous.
And finally throw in this bizarre animosity from many analog MTBers, all resulting in having nowhere to legally ride.
Then add US private property laws where the thought of letting someone set foot on your land is preposterous.
And finally throw in this bizarre animosity from many analog MTBers, all resulting in having nowhere to legally ride.
JetSedgwick
E*POWAH Master
lame. that place is nice.
2WheelsNot4
E*POWAH Master
I think the real problem is the "Them & Us" attitude that seems to prevail through the American psyche.
In the political realm of the US, voters cant seem to be able to criticize their own party, instead seeming to look to criticize past mistakes of the opposing party. I think its pretty much that. If they ride an analogue bike, then they will never see past that and only look to be critical of the Ebike.
Easiest way to talk down anyone who says Ebike is cheating, point to their gearing system and inquire what that is for, and is it not cheating to use gears and not single speed.
In the political realm of the US, voters cant seem to be able to criticize their own party, instead seeming to look to criticize past mistakes of the opposing party. I think its pretty much that. If they ride an analogue bike, then they will never see past that and only look to be critical of the Ebike.
Easiest way to talk down anyone who says Ebike is cheating, point to their gearing system and inquire what that is for, and is it not cheating to use gears and not single speed.
Didn't see this posted, an article today from Associated Press titled "
Debate intensifies on how much trail access to give e-bikes"
apnews.com
Debate intensifies on how much trail access to give e-bikes"
Debate intensifies on how much trail access to give e-bikes
DENVER (AP) — The sun was almost setting when 14-year-old Daniel Giffin crossed the finish line on his electric mountain bike last August, nearly the last in the pack of thousands of cyclists riding across the state of Iowa in the stifling late-summer heat.
apnews.com
I live in Jefferson county and is one of the main reasons I decided to get my ebike. Jeffco has some awesome downhill bike only trails with some monster climbs to get to them. I now do 3 or 4 runs vs 1 maybe 2. I think they did the right way with the pilot program. Allowed people to see if their perceptions met with the reality of ebikes.Didn't see this posted, an article today from Associated Press titled "
Debate intensifies on how much trail access to give e-bikes"
Debate intensifies on how much trail access to give e-bikes
DENVER (AP) — The sun was almost setting when 14-year-old Daniel Giffin crossed the finish line on his electric mountain bike last August, nearly the last in the pack of thousands of cyclists riding across the state of Iowa in the stifling late-summer heat.
stantaur
Member
Several areas like Hagg Lake around Portland OR prohibit eMTB outright, while other areas (Stub Stewart, Brown's Camp) significantly reduce the number of trails open to eMTB (vs. regular MTB). Hood River area seems more amenable.
Problem is, this level of headwind is likely suppressing sales of eMTB (environmentally more friendly than much less expensive and zippier 2-stroke 250cc dirt bikes that have free reign of OHV trails)... in a time when it would be wise to encourage eMTB sales (and trail access) rather than force eMTBs in between two worlds:
1 - capable of up to 15 MPH more closing speed than a 3 MPH hiker, equestrian, or regular MTB up a hill (thus spooking them), and
2 - capped at 20 MPH on OHV motorized trails, risking harassment by faster, larger vehicles traveling well over 20 MPH and shaking their fists on the way by (huge delta in closing speeds; eMTB become the hated Prius of OHV trails by impeding others' speeds...)
Problem is, this level of headwind is likely suppressing sales of eMTB (environmentally more friendly than much less expensive and zippier 2-stroke 250cc dirt bikes that have free reign of OHV trails)... in a time when it would be wise to encourage eMTB sales (and trail access) rather than force eMTBs in between two worlds:
1 - capable of up to 15 MPH more closing speed than a 3 MPH hiker, equestrian, or regular MTB up a hill (thus spooking them), and
2 - capped at 20 MPH on OHV motorized trails, risking harassment by faster, larger vehicles traveling well over 20 MPH and shaking their fists on the way by (huge delta in closing speeds; eMTB become the hated Prius of OHV trails by impeding others' speeds...)
Dan202B
Member
I just tell people to stop thinking about it as the same, it’s not. An analog mountain bike or EMTB or Dirt Bike are simply three different things made to ride trails. I have all three and they are simply different so no need to compare them. When I ride my KTM am I cheating? No and nobody thinks so. Because they don’t compare it to a mountain bike.
You are far more optimistic than I. Any designation change will require environmental impact studies and result in lawsuits by basically everyone except us. We won't see significant change for years, or until a new USFS director changes it.
Uh, no, it went the other way, unless you're only counting motorized stuff.
