20kg full-fat Ebike?

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Alex Ebiker

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I was wondering if there is currently an Emtb with 80NM+ and 600wh battery that weighs around 20kg. To my knowledge there isn’t, but what is the closet to it and how long will it be until we see one?.
 
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Kenevo comp with carbon bits and light tyres will get very close
 
Don't obsess over how much it weighs (too much) it's not an XC bike. That said, mine is light (Heckler) and I notice the difference just moving around the daughter's ally Giant Liv. when you're on the trails the extra is not too noticeable.
 
VWsurfbum said:
Don't obsess over how much it weighs (too much) it's not an XC bike. That said, mine is light (Heckler) and I notice the difference just moving around the daughter's ally Giant Liv. when you're on the trails the extra is not too noticeable.
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I have tried both a trek rail and an Orbea rise. I can definitely tell the difference on the trail in terms of weight.
 
2022 Santa Cruz Heckler CC X01 AXS RSV
My medium test bike, without pedals, weighed in at 21.8kg.
 
Alex Ebiker said:
I was wondering if there is currently an Emtb with 80NM+ and 600wh battery that weighs around 20kg. To my knowledge there isn’t, but what is the closet to it and how long will it be until we see one?.
Click to expand...

my M size( more like an L really) Rockrider E-ST900 weights about 22.1 kg. that's with tubes + 2.8 tyres.

I guess dropping to lighter, smaller tyres and tubeless could save 0.5kg ?
use a smaller battery from e-s520 -200g
better fork -300 g

still never gonna be lightweight enough :D
 
I have a carbon Rail 625 with carbon wheels, never weighed it but it is very light. I ride with a large variety of different bikes and there isn’t any close to being as light.
Also that Mondraker but I think that’s about 13 grand😱
 
Alex Ebiker said:
Looks like this is a sub 20kg full-fat Ebike.

www.pinkbike.com

Mondraker Debuts Sub 20kg Crafty Carbon e-Enduro e-MTB - Pinkbike

Mondraker's new ebikes are some of the lightest on the market.
www.pinkbike.com www.pinkbike.com
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That figure might be about right? I've just picked up a new 2022 Mondi Crafty RR (alu frame) and stated weight on the UK Mondi site is 25.3 kg. I weighed it as delivered on my bathroom scales and it came in at 26.3 kg. I've since given it a quick crash diet , swapped front wheel to a lighter (alloy rim) spare and set up both as tubeless, swapped in a lighter carbon shell saddle and fitted an XX1 rear cassette (and XD freehub) in place of its HG/NX cassette combo and got it down to a scales weight of 25 kg. I suspect I could loose some more if I had the lighter fox 36 forks (mine full fat 38) and carbon cranks/bars, less burly wheels/tyres etc. Note they have also slimmed the battery down to 625Wh compared to the full fat Craftys 750Wh- that could count for a few hundred grams.
 
mcboab said:
That figure might be about right? I've just picked up a new 2022 Mondi Crafty RR (alu frame) and stated weight on the UK Mondi site is 25.3 kg. I weighed it as delivered on my bathroom scales and it came in at 26.3 kg. I've since given it a quick crash diet , swapped front wheel to a lighter (alloy rim) spare and set up both as tubeless, swapped in a lighter carbon shell saddle and fitted an XX1 rear cassette (and XD freehub) in place of its HG/NX cassette combo and got it down to a scales weight of 25 kg. I suspect I could loose some more if I had the lighter fox 36 forks (mine full fat 38) and carbon cranks/bars, less burly wheels/tyres etc. Note they have also slimmed the battery down to 625Wh compared to the full fat Craftys 750Wh- that could count for a few hundred grams.
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Apart from the frame, the weight of a bike mostly comes from the wheels. This crafty rr sl is close to 20kg because of the lightweight carbon wheelset.
 
Anybody checked the 'Weight Weenies' site for threads pertaining to this ?.

You know what they're like ;)and a big full fat Ebike is just the project they'd love to get their teeth in to.
 
Quite a few older EMTB,s got close to this, but now with the quest for bigger batteries it’s nigh in impossible. The original Pivot Shuttle, and some of the Focus Jam 2’s where hovering around the 20kg mark.

ebike-mtb.com

Pivot Shuttle Review

We reviewed their debut Pivot Shuttle to find out if the bike is worth its staggering € 9,999 price tag.
ebike-mtb.com ebike-mtb.com
 
This would surely come with weak wheels, flimsy tyres, warping rotors, flexing forks and an unproven frame. All topped with an scorching price tag to make all this a very convincing product of the most expensive experimental technology available mixed with opinions from internet influencers with thousands of on line time a few kilometers of emtb a year.
 
Alex Ebiker said:
I have tried both a trek rail and an Orbea rise. I can definitely tell the difference on the trail in terms of weight.
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Definitely, I love the way a full fat ploughs through stuff, up and down. My regular MTB skips and crawls in comparison. Both equally great.
 
Alex Ebiker said:
I was wondering if there is currently an Emtb with 80NM+ and 600wh battery that weighs around 20kg. To my knowledge there isn’t, but what is the closet to it and how long will it be until we see one?.
Click to expand...

Hi Alex, sorry you had to listen to all the posts just talking about normal eMTBs when you were asking about a full sus eFat.... so to best of my knowledge LaMere Cycles makes the only full suspension full carbon eFat using the Shimano motor, with our custom made cranks. People are blown away by this bike, everyone completely loves it and its truly an awesome bike. We could do HED carbon fat wheels and skip a dropper but would still only be able to get it down to like 46lbs but that's really light for a 630Wh battery bike. If you can think of a way to make it lighter lmk.... but you will not complain about the weight at all when you ride it I promise!

Check it out here:
www.lamerecycles.com

Custom Electric Fat Bike for All Seasons - eSummit by LaMere Cycles

Discover the custom electric fat bike of your dreams. The eSummit delivers unmatched performance and versatility for every adventure.
www.lamerecycles.com www.lamerecycles.com

Thx, JP

small eSummit 3:4.jpg
 
lamerecycles said:
Hi Alex, sorry you had to listen to all the posts just talking about normal eMTBs when you were asking about a full sus eFat.... so to best of my knowledge LaMere Cycles makes the only full suspension full carbon eFat using the Shimano motor, with our custom made cranks. People are blown away by this bike, everyone completely loves it and its truly an awesome bike. We could do HED carbon fat wheels and skip a dropper but would still only be able to get it down to like 46lbs but that's really light for a 630Wh battery bike. If you can think of a way to make it lighter lmk.... but you will not complain about the weight at all when you ride it I promise!

Check it out here:
www.lamerecycles.com

Custom Electric Fat Bike for All Seasons - eSummit by LaMere Cycles

Discover the custom electric fat bike of your dreams. The eSummit delivers unmatched performance and versatility for every adventure.
www.lamerecycles.com www.lamerecycles.com

Thx, JP

View attachment 94243
Click to expand...
I bet thats a riot to ride
 
In defence of LaMere, there bikes are the real deal when it comes to lightweight full power bikes, but they often dont get taken seriously because they still use external batteries.

The issue at the moment is that aesthetics trump engineering when it comes to making a lightweight full power bike - if you go down the external battery route, and stick with a 504wh battery then its possible to get close to or at 20kg - the beauty of the external battery ecosystem from shimano is that you can easily swap in a 630wh battery if wanted.

Engineering the battery into the frame means more weight - the internal batteries weigh more compared to their external counterparts, and the free needs more reinforcement too.

Wisper Bikes, who are more famous for building shopping bikes, produced the Wildcat four years ago - they only did it for one year as sadly they didn't really get the word out, as it was a great bike, I believe based off the same frame as the Lamere. There is a guy out in Surrey Hills who has built one up to be (claimed) just under 20kg, running some very high ens kit, carbon wheels etc.

I believe that if brands wanted too they could easily build a 20kg full fat that is not crazy money, by using an EP8 with external battery. However the market just won't buy bikes with external batteries anymore.

Screenshot 2022-08-08 at 19.54.34.png
 
R120 said:
In defence of LaMere, there bikes are the real deal when it comes to lightweight full power bikes, but they often dont get taken seriously because they still use external batteries.

The issue at the moment is that aesthetics trump engineering when it comes to making a lightweight full power bike - if you go down the external battery route, and stick with a 504wh battery then its possible to get close to or at 20kg - the beauty of the external battery ecosystem from shimano is that you can easily swap in a 630wh battery if wanted.

Engineering the battery into the frame means more weight - the internal batteries weigh more compared to their external counterparts, and the free needs more reinforcement too.

Wisper Bikes, who are more famous for building shopping bikes, produced the Wildcat four years ago - they only did it for one year as sadly they didn't really get the word out, as it was a great bike, I believe based off the same frame as the Lamere. There is a guy out in Surrey Hills who has built one up to be (claimed) just under 20kg, running some very high ens kit, carbon wheels etc.

I believe that if brands wanted too they could easily build a 20kg full fat that is not crazy money, by using an EP8 with external battery. However the market just won't buy bikes with external batteries anymore.

View attachment 94301
Click to expand...
Hi, so I have to respectfully disagree with all you say, reasons below.

External batteries do not look as stealth to be sure, but they are much lighter. The reason for this is the plastic case Shimano uses on an external battery and also when you do an external battery it is just resting on the downtube so frame requires less structure and support. The internal Shimano batteries have a metal case, making them heavier.... I don't know why they do that I would like to know!

We actually do have an internal battery version of eSummit you can see on our website but we don't sell as many as customers want the bigger external 630Wh battery for more range. So we can only do internal 504Wh battery versions now, but if you do the external battery version of our eSummit we can do a 418Wh, 504Wh, or 630Wh size.

This Whisper bike you show is not a fat bike its a plus bike.... it can not fit fat wheels and tires like a big 26 x 85mm rim with the biggest Johnny 5 fat tires like the eSummit frame can.

Thx! JP LaMere
 
lamerecycles said:
Hi, so I have to respectfully disagree with all you say, reasons below.

External batteries do not look as stealth to be sure, but they are much lighter. The reason for this is the plastic case Shimano uses on an external battery and also when you do an external battery it is just resting on the downtube so frame requires less structure and support. The internal Shimano batteries have a metal case, making them heavier.... I don't know why they do that I would like to know!

We actually do have an internal battery version of eSummit you can see on our website but we don't sell as many as customers want the bigger external 630Wh battery for more range. So we can only do internal 504Wh battery versions now, but if you do the external battery version of our eSummit we can do a 418Wh, 504Wh, or 630Wh size.

This Whisper bike you show is not a fat bike its a plus bike.... it can not fit fat wheels and tires like a big 26 x 85mm rim with the biggest Johnny 5 fat tires like the eSummit frame can.

Thx! JP LaMere
Click to expand...
I think you are agreeing with me?

The point I was making is that by using an external battery you can get a lower weight - IIRC the external batteries are lighter casing because they are not subject to as much force as an internal battery, where whether intentionally designed to be or not they can act as a stressed member - that is what Shimano told me a few years back - i.e the internal batteries are heavier duty casing because they are likely to be subjected to more forces.

I wasn't specifically referencing fat bikes, more the possibility of building a full power 20kg MTB, is achievable using Shimano EP8, and external 504wh battery. From memory there is negligible difference between the 418 and 504 batteries in terms of weight, but about 1kg difference between the 630 and 504 (I have both but cant remember exact figure from when I weighed them).

I believe the frame you use is an OEM spec frame you use is same from your original Diode as the Whisper? Your OG Diode is a very good example of a 20kg full power bike.

Screenshot 2022-08-08 at 21.05.27.png
 
Out of interest how much does you V4 weight in the spec of the attached pic, with the 720wh Battery?

Screenshot 2022-08-08 at 21.07.17.png
 
R120 said:
Out of interest how much does you V4 weight in the spec of the attached pic, with the 720wh Battery?

View attachment 94325
Click to expand...
Oooooops, YES I was agreeing with you.... we are on same page: external batteries are lighter but the bike industry does not think they look as cool. Thanks for your explanation of the internal batteries using the metal case, that makes sense and sounds familiar.

So our V4 Diode bikes are heavier with the huge internal 720Wh batteries.... and just bigger travel bikes like this with 160mm rear travel get heavier..... this black one above even with the Kuroshiro rims weighed 49.5lbs (22.45kg) sans pedals..... but most of the builds end up weighing like 51lbs (23g).

Thx! jp
 
lamerecycles said:
Oooooops, YES I was agreeing with you.... we are on same page: external batteries are lighter but the bike industry does not think they look as cool. Thanks for your explanation of the internal batteries using the metal case, that makes sense and sounds familiar.

So our V4 Diode bikes are heavier with the huge internal 720Wh batteries.... and just bigger travel bikes like this with 160mm rear travel get heavier..... this black one above even with the Kuroshiro rims weighed 49.5lbs (22.45kg) sans pedals..... but most of the builds end up weighing like 51lbs (23g).

Thx! jp
Click to expand...
Still impressive for that size battery and no holds barred burly suspension spec etc.
 
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