Levo Gen 3 Punched Out!? The blasting up fun has been lost?

[Jimbo Vills]

Muppet, just like before, you missed the point of the conversation and offered zero assistance or advice. Personally I think you are a poor moderator because you are not actually moderating. You are just noise while others are conversing.
thanks to you I am done with eMTB.

Your going to quit a hobby you are clearly passionate about because you don’t agree with a stranger on the internet??

 

[Jpzeroday]

Both great bikes! I prefer the gen 3 because of the brose motor / mission control app, the 700w battery, and the adjustable geo. I can also go on much longer rides with both levos.
If I want to go on a 3 hour+ ride I can set my levo at 40% - 50% power and I wont run out of battery. With the trek rail I have put the bike in eco (which is noticeably less power than a levo in 40% - 50%)

Mohawk3a,

I found the Levo3 to be awesome on technical climbing…big up moves on steep and chunky rock faces, etc.

It looks like your Levo3 climb times are close to your Levo2. Would you guess that the 275 v 29 rear and slightly slacker head angle are the main culprits, or do you think it’s the motor?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Gen3?

Gen4 - bosch - he said he had that too.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Dude, you need to get out more.

100% correct.

Why waste time helping people like you who don't respond to anything they're asked, don't respond to PM's when you try to help them. People who just want to have a public face complaining about things with no desire to solve things. If you go on a forum, it's normally to get help, to find solutions, to fix and improve things.

99% of the people here are intelligent, humorous, open minded, creative and love mountain biking and sharing their knowledge and experiences. A small minority are just arrogant pricks with their heads up their arses who offer nothing.

But you win. Literally, why bother. My past interaction with you and your clone moron just show the way of things to come. Ciao, congratulations.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Oh I thought you meant gen 4 levo.. Soz

No worries. My fault for not being clearer. Saying Gen3 and assuming someone knows you're talking about a levo and saying Gen4 and then presuming they'll work out you're talking about a Bosch motor is a bit short sighted !

 

[beutelfuchs]

I ride the current Kenevo and Levo Gen3 back to back. I can feel any difference in overall power.

The only (weird) thing I feel on the Levo is in situations I pedal up smooth tarmack climbs with very little rider power (<100w), lower cadence (<85) and lots of motor power. While the Kenevo handles that normal, the Levo power delivery feels sluggish.
Wonder if anyone can confirm.

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Has some one ridden back to back Levo/Kenevo (Brose 2.1?) compared to the Levo 3 Brose 2.2?

Slower? Less powerful. Looking for feedback from those of you with direct experience.

High Rock Ruti

I have the 2021 rail 9.8 and the 2022 Levo Pro I prefer the Brose to the Gen 4 Bosch, the power on the Levo is greater, that being said, it's the Fox suspension that really differentiates the Levo from the Rail. I'll repeat myself (because I'm limited in scope) All modern EMTB's are unique in frame only, everything attached to those bikes frames is sold by others. I've got the 2016 Pivot shuttle, down on power (70 nm) but handles really well. My bikes break or require parts so often that needing multiple bikes inorder to ride daily is required.


Warm Regards Ruti

 

[Jpzeroday]

I ride the current Kenevo and Levo Gen3 back to back. I can feel any difference in overall power.

The only (weird) thing I feel on the Levo is in situations I pedal up smooth tarmack climbs with very little rider power (Wonder if anyone can confirm.

So you think your Kenevo is the better bike for trail riding with technical features?

Debating even getting a Kenevo over a Levo3. I had one and it got stolen. It was a great bike.

Anyone else with full fat Kenevo versus Levo3 experience? I’m looking for a bike that can do big distance rides that can handle rocky trail features well.

 

[beutelfuchs]

My comment was really just about eventual differences regarding the motor and not related to what bike I like for what.
Btw, just re-reading my statement: It should have been

I ride the current Kenevo and Levo Gen3 back to back. I can't feel any difference in overall power.

If you are interested in my take regarding which bike for what:
Levo to cover ground, shaped trails, playful riding, moderate descends, medium speed.
Kenevo is close to a DH. Rough stuff, steep, fast, drops, jumps.
Rock vs metal.
There is some overlap between both. But usually for every of my trails a very much prefere one of the two.

E.g. this section Aqueducto steps Video - Trailforks
...works with both but with the Levo maybe like the guy on the vid, but not nearly as fast as with the Kenevo. Else on the impact which comes after I would fear the Levo wouldn't survive.
On the other hand I avoid doing any flatish parts on the Kenevo.

 

[Jpzeroday]

My comment was really just about eventual differences regarding the motor and not related to what bike I like for what.
Btw, just re-reading my statement: It should have been

If you are interested in my take regarding which bike for what:
Levo to cover ground, shaped trails, playful riding, moderate descends, medium speed.
Kenevo is close to a DH. Rough stuff, steep, fast, drops, jumps.
Rock vs metal.
There is some overlap between both. But usually for every of my trails a very much prefere one of the two.

E.g. this section Aqueducto steps Video - Trailforks
...works with both but with the Levo maybe like the guy on the vid, but not nearly as fast as with the Kenevo. Else on the impact which comes after I would fear the Levo wouldn't survive.
On the other hand I avoid doing any flatish parts on the Kenevo.

Great feedback. Thanks!

If you had to choose one, which would it be? Levo3? Kenevo20?

I need to choose myself…I enjoy sometime long rides, but am always seeking out technically challenging trail segments both up and down. I am concerned that the lower travel of the Levo3 will get overwhelmed in the fast irregular rocky gnar often found here in the USA Southwest. Smooth flow trails are infrequent.

 

[beutelfuchs]

If your trails look anything like the one on the vid and you enjoy beating yourself up on them, go with the Ken.Just be aware that on anything flowy it will be underwhelmed or even boring
For what I consider long rides I got a gravel

 

[Mohawk3a]

Great feedback. Thanks!

If you had to choose one, which would it be? Levo3? Kenevo20?

I need to choose myself…I enjoy sometime long rides, but am always seeking out technically challenging trail segments both up and down. I am concerned that the lower travel of the Levo3 will get overwhelmed in the fast irregular rocky gnar often found here in the USA Southwest. Smooth flow trails are infrequent.

I was very interested in a kenevo until I hopped on one at my local bike shop and pedaled around the parking lot. I was getting pedal strikes while turning that beast on pavement. Climbing ability is important to me and I dont think that bike would perform well up any technical climbs or uneven terrain. Kenevo is purely a downhill rig in my opinion. The new gen3 levo performs great climbing and descending, and it also spec’d with higher quality components. I would go with the gen 3.

 

[Careyj1]

I have both a 2019 Turbo Levo Sworks and a 2022 Turbo Levo Sworks, both have had the motors replaced so I think both motors are the same.

The 2019 is faster going uphill and faster on up and down flow trails.

I am still trying to figure out why the 2019 is faster.

Could be the following:

1)Rear wheel 29 on the 2019 verses 27.5 on the 2022.
2) Cranks on 2019 are longer (stock) then on the 2022.
3) 2019 weights about 4 pounds less than the 2022.

One of the biggest things I notice is when the power delivery cuts out.

I use a Garmin 530 on both bikes and I notice the 2022 hits the cut off at about 19.0 mph on the 2022 and 20 mph on the 2019. What is odd is the TCU on the 2022 will show a speed of 20 when the support cuts off however the Garmin speed is 19.

I don't know if the difference is due to the 27.5 rear wheel or the new TCU but the 2019 gives a little more support before cutoff and I can see it in the numbers. I wonder if Specialized has looked at this?

The other thing I noticed between the two bikes is that is is easier to petal past the motor support cutoff on the 2019 verses 2022. It could be the frame design and part of the 1,2,3 above. It's not a big difference but a difference. The 2022 will be 20 to 30 seconds slower over a 10 minute Strava climbing segment going all out (KOM)

 

[beutelfuchs]

I was getting pedal strikes while turning that beast on pavement.

Was the sag maybe not adjusted?
Anyways, thats not a relevant issue really, just something you'll adapt to developing a sense for "tactical pedaling".
Also you can elevate the frame into high position turning the flip chip. I have many techy climb around, no reason to skip a bike you elsewise would prefer. In many situations the Kenevo climbs superior to the levo due to its steeper seat angle and longer rear end.
Btw, my Diverge Gravel bike with 175mm cranks gets also pedal strikes on the pavement when I turn with the inner pedal in low position ...also with zero relevance while riding.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Wanted to revisit the original question(s) I posed on this topic…as I now have additional experience on the Levo3.

Demoed an S5 yesterday for a good ride.

Indeed the issue was that Acceleration was set to 0%. When set to 100% it felt more like the Spesh/Brose ride effort amplification I was used to…it felt off a shade from previous motors, but still nice. I will say, I think the current Bosch (which I have 400 miles on) it a bit more bionic uphill.

Regarding the Levo3 being slower uphill than the Levo2…my experiences on demo rides has me suspecting the reduced roll over efficiency of the mullet AND the grippy front tire.

Anecdotally, I can share that when I changed the front tire on my Bullit from a MaxxGrip to a MaxxTerra compound, the difference in rolling resistance was HUGE.

TLDR: The Levo3 is NOT ‘Punched Out’!

 

[808golden]

Soooo, I’ve been riding my 2018 Levo Carbon Expert since 2019 when I bought it secondhand ($4200). At first I was just trying to upgrade the 2018 base Levo (that I bought used from my LBS for $2500) but in addition to the better all round set up (carbon wheels, frame, XO and Ohlins fork) the motor seems to be holding up great.
I don’t abuse it, ride the whole range of gears, don’t blast the Turbo all of the time, but I do ride some crazy fun bike park stuff whenever I can (love a good flow trail with features!). Knock on wood, the motor on my 2018 seems great! Did I score a unicorn ride?

 

[NZ_Levo]

Has some one ridden back to back Levo/Kenevo (Brose 2.1?) compared to the Levo 3 Brose 2.2?

Slower? Less powerful. Looking for feedback from those of you with direct experience.

hi there...i have.

p/exed my 2019 Levo Expert for the 2022 Levo Pro.

i can't say i've noticed the power being down at all. i max the motor at 85% in turbo a. for longevity and b. so if things get really crappy on a ride, i know i've got a bit in reserve. i also keep the acceleration response at 0 as i like a more natural fee, rather than a kick.

what i have noticed and i was surpsied about was that a. it was heavier and b. it carried a lot less speed down a long track descent. probably not surprising given the 27.5 at the back.

but on the other hand, steep, twisty uphill switchbacks are way easier to get round and i'm consistently clearing a rock garden that i never managed in one hit on the old bike

so there you go, nothing is perfect but it is very different.

if you want that kick - and maybe theres a perception of extra power there - dial in the acceleration response and that may do the trick,

cheers!

 

[Lasse]

High Rock Ruti

I have the 2021 rail 9.8 and the 2022 Levo Pro I prefer the Brose to the Gen 4 Bosch, the power on the Levo is greater, that being said, it's the Fox suspension that really differentiates the Levo from the Rail. I'll repeat myself (because I'm limited in scope) All modern EMTB's are unique in frame only, everything attached to those bikes frames is sold by others. I've got the 2016 Pivot shuttle, down on power (70 nm) but handles really well. My bikes break or require parts so often that needing multiple bikes inorder to ride daily is required.


Warm Regards Ruti

Hi, Really agrees with you wrt Brose vs Bosch. Had a Turbo Levo 2020 for two years, and now got a Trek Rail 9 2022. Out on my regular trail I notice that the Rail is less "punchy" and I struggle to match my older Levo. The Rail feels like it has more resistance above speed limit, less power support when changing to lower gears in transition to a uphill (rpm increases in short period and power drops drastically), and seems more sensitive to rpm compared to the Levo. I like to pedal itensively. After 5 rides now, I've goot second thoughts... back to Levo maybe... only good thing would be that I get better training trying to follow my friend with a Levo...