Rail Downsides

[Bomble]

Very close to buying a Rail, just waiting for a demo ride so just looking for some owners honest opinions.
I’ve noticed most people never slate their own bike so instead of people just saying it’s awesome, has anyone found any negatives?

 

[Zimmerframe]

@p3eps You've had one and now not ..

 

[Bomble]

Got a Levo at the mo btw

 

[Paul Mac]

I have just changed from a 2019 levo expert.
I have a lot of love for the levo, in the way it rides.
However for me the Rail is better in every way apart from, I seem to be getting more pedal strikes now, but I have changed pedals, I plan on putting my old pedals on.
Also I'm about 4 - 6 miles down on range compared to the Levo, but again I have been using EMTB mode a lot ?

 

[Orangie]

I sure can’t find any downside. It’s heavy??? Paint chips easy

 

[p3eps]

I just did the 30 day satisfaction guarantee - and returned my Rail 9.9.
I don't think there was anything particularly bad about it... I just wanted less assistance and to use my legs more - so I have bought a Levo SL instead.

A great bike, and great fun to ride. I just felt that it was giving me too much help on EMTB mode. Well put together and solid feeling. Bosch motor is torquey and powerful - and not too noisy when pedalling. Battery integration into the frame works really well, and is simple to remove.

Negatives:

• Several chips on the bike before I'd even got the Invisiframe on - straight from the box. Had I not returned it, the shop were going to replace the whole bike for me! The TREK logo stickers were rough and badly cut on the non battery side.
• Even the range topping 9.9 weighs over 22kg when the pedals are on. A lot of weight to lift on the bike rack, or to try and bunny hop. Trek weigh and supply the bike tubeless... so you can't automatically take 400g off the advertised weight for removing tubes!
• LOTS of pedal strikes for me. The same route on the Levo SL had barely any. I was considering shortening the cranks 10mm.
• The KIOX display was mounted in one of the best places I've seen it - however was still awkward and unsightly. For me, Spesh have this sorted with a few LED's on the top tube.
• Bosch motor is really clattery when coming down fast root / rocky sections when not pedalling.
• Difficult to maintain 16+mph on flat ground due to weight / motor drag, and riding without assistance is VERY hard work.
• Clutching at straws... but the bottle cage mount position mean you'll struggle to fit a full size bottle without it rubbing the frame.

 

[Paul Mac]

I just did the 30 day satisfaction guarantee - and returned my Rail 9.9.
I don't think there was anything particularly bad about it... I just wanted less assistance and to use my legs more - so I have bought a Levo SL instead.

A great bike, and great fun to ride. I just felt that it was giving me too much help on EMTB mode. Well put together and solid feeling. Bosch motor is torquey and powerful - and not too noisy when pedalling. Battery integration into the frame works really well, and is simple to remove.

Negatives:

• Several chips on the bike before I'd even got the Invisiframe on - straight from the box. Had I not returned it, the shop were going to replace the whole bike for me! The TREK logo stickers were rough and badly cut on the non battery side.
• Even the range topping 9.9 weighs over 22kg when the pedals are on. A lot of weight to lift on the bike rack, or to try and bunny hop. Trek weigh and supply the bike tubeless... so you can't automatically take 400g off the advertised weight for removing tubes!
• LOTS of pedal strikes for me. The same route on the Levo SL had barely any. I was considering shortening the cranks 10mm.
• The KIOX display was mounted in one of the best places I've seen it - however was still awkward and unsightly. For me, Spesh have this sorted with a few LED's on the top tube.
• Bosch motor is really clattery when coming down fast root / rocky sections when not pedalling.
• Difficult to maintain 16+mph on flat ground due to weight / motor drag, and riding without assistance is VERY hard work.
• Clutching at straws... but the bottle cage mount position mean you'll struggle to fit a full size bottle without it rubbing the frame.

I agree with all your observations, but the weight and the pedaling over 15mph, you have just described every other emtb available.
That's why a lot of people get their bikes de restricted, it's not to go bombing along at break neck speed, it's to avoid what you have described ?

 

[p3eps]

I agree with all your observations, but the weight and the pedaling over 15mph, you have just described every other emtb available.
That's why a lot of people get their bikes de restricted, it's not to go bombing along at break neck speed, it's to avoid what you have described ?

I found that I spent most of my riding at about 13-14mph just to stay under the limiter and get assistance.
The Rail and the Levo SL are the only 2 eMTB’s I’ve ever ridden - but I’m sure the weight ‘issue’ covers the majority. There are plenty out there at way more than 22kgs, that must give your body a good workout.
I had sore arms rather than legs the day after riding the Rail... probably from trying to lift the front all the time!

 

[Gary]

Only ridden one. Not owned.
I didn't really like it as I found it very heavy and cumbersome compared to my own Eeb

I had sore arms rather than legs the day after riding the Rail... probably from trying to lift the front all the time!

Spend time to learn how to manual and stop trying to lift the front with your arms. you don't need to be able to hold manuals for ages. Just repeat the proicess until you can manual a few bike lengths consistently. You'll soon realise lifting the front is way more about pre-loading and weight shift than hauling on the bars with your arms

 

[p3eps]

Forgot to add - the knock block is rather annoying too. Makes the steering feel very restrictive, especially when moving about a heavy bike. Probably more noticeable when off the bike than on.

 

[p3eps]

Spend time to learn how to manual and stop trying to lift the front with your arms.

Manuals are on my list of to dos! Watched a few tutorial videos last week, and will give it a shot once the new bike is here. Something I can practice on the road outside my house, without the need to take the bike to the woods!

 

[Gary]

Yeah. I hate knockblock type headsets too.
Just design your head/downtubes so fork crowns don't contact it FFS!
some of us oldies still like to throw the odd X-Up from time to time

 

[Gary]

Manuals are on my list of to dos! Watched a few tutorial videos last week, and will give it a shot once the new bike is here. Something I can practice on the road outside my house, without the need to take the bike to the woods!

Practice bunnyhops too. the initial preload required for a bunnyhop will help your muscle memory for both.

 

[p3eps]

Practice bunnyhops too. the initial preload required for a bunnyhop will help your muscle memory for both.

Can do bunnyhops without an issue... I just think I’ve got the fear of falling off the back in a manual! Hopefully not so bad now I’m back on flat pedals ??

 

[Gary]

Can do bunnyhops without an issue... I just think I’ve got the fear of falling off the back in a manual! Hopefully not so bad now I’m back on flat pedals ??

Ok. cool. see when you're going for a very high bunnyhop and pre-load the front wheel and raise it higher? That's basically all you need to do but instead of standing up tall and pushing forwards on the bars while lifting the rear to level it, just straighten your arms and push the pedals horizontally forwards while continuing to lean back.
intentionally learn to loop out and bail off the back too... it removes most of the fear of falling back.

DON'T MAKE THE MISTAKE OF BUILDING A MANUAL MACHINE! they teach you nothing useful for actual manualling

 

[dochabanero]

Sure I get some pedal-strikes on my Rail, but setting the flip-chip to high and covering some 400km on the bike I have learned how to avoid them for the most part. Apart from that the bike/geo and suspension is great.

The things I still have issues with are all related to Bosch.

1#
Could we please have a controller with BLE/ANT+ support and not being forced to use the Kiox/Purion? Feels very dated. I want to choose what display I want if any.

2#
On that same note, can we get a cleaner cockpit please? A controller similar to the E7000 or Spez setup would be a lot cleaner.

3#
Back to what has been mentioned here. Level of assistance. Could we please be trusted to set assistance level our selves? Ie being allowed to modify assistance lveles in all the different modes.

Those things would greatly improve my perception of Bosch being overly protective and locking you in as a consumer.

 

[zaykay]

Negatives after 450 kms of riding:
- bosch motor clap sound going downhill
- lack of app support for motor tuning
- high pitch motor sound in high cadence/high assistance situations
- lack of space for big water bottles when using external cannister shock
- basically single pivot rear suspension, there are better single pivot applications available. Chaging to a better shock will help a lot.

Otherwise I really like it. What comes to the drag after speed limiter, it actually has least drag from any motor what I have tested. My Shimano E8000 bike is worse and old Bosch was in completely another world.

What comes to pedals strikes this bike is actually less prone to them than most others when sag is set right. Flipping micro chip will lessen them even more.

About weight, I don’t think there are many others than new Montrager, Levo SL and new Heckler which are actually considerable lighter. Most others are heavier or the same than Rail.

 

[EMTB Rider]

Very close to buying a Rail, just waiting for a demo ride so just looking for some owners honest opinions.
I’ve noticed most people never slate their own bike so instead of people just saying it’s awesome, has anyone found any negatives?

My personal Rail carbon 9.7 has about 350 miles on it and it's by far the best Ebike I have ever ridden. Nothing negative to report!

 

[Paul Mac]

Only ridden one. Not owned.
I didn't really like it as I found it very heavy and cumbersome compared to my own Eeb


Spend time to learn how to manual and stop trying to lift the front with your arms. you don't need to be able to hold manuals for ages. Just repeat the proicess until you can manual a few bike lengths consistently. You'll soon realise lifting the front is way more about pre-loading and weight shift than hauling on the bars with your arms

Your sure you rode the Rail and not the Powerfly?
The first thing that struck me about the Rail was how agile and quick turning it was, and that's coming from a levo?

 

[Bomble]

Thanks for all the replies, all sounds good.
I think I remember Gary rides a size small normally but rode an xl rail?

 

[Doomanic]

I went to a Rail from a Powerfly. Despite being a very similar size and almost exactly the same weight (lots) it's a much more agile, playful bike.
I'm not getting pedal strikes, but the cranks on the Rail are 10mm shorter than the cranks on the PF and after a short period of adjustment I didn't get them on that either.
Cons;
Not sold on 29er wheels, but I've only done about 100 miles so far.
It doesn't fit in my car as easily as the PF due to the 29er wheels.
The new Bosch is a different noise to the old one and seemingly more intrusive.
Lack of options to adjust assist levels.

 

[Gary]

Your sure you rode the Rail and not the Powerfly?
The first thing that struck me about the Rail was how agile and quick turning it was, and that's coming from a levo?

Defo a rail (It was one of the lower range models though)
first thing that strikes me on most Eebs is how little agility they all have.
I don't actually like anything about standard (not SL) levos. They're neither light nor agile.

quick turning doesn't = agile
short, light and poppy does

 

[dochabanero]

first thing that strikes me on most Eebs is how little agility they all have.
I don't actually like anything about standard (not SL) levos. They're neither light nor agile.

quick turning doesn't = agile
short, light and poppy does

I think we all come from different backgrounds and expect different things from these bikes.

I have been away from analog MTBs for quite a while riding motorcycles these last couple of years. Comparing a 20kg emtb with a 110kg dirt-bike or a 190kg road-bike I find these bikes fairly agile. In my opinion, the likes of Rails and Levos are quite poppy with them nice short chain stays. Easy to pump and compress the suspension for jumps and bunny hops.

Hell, even throwing them in the trunk of the car is a breeze.

 

[VR46]

I just did the 30 day satisfaction guarantee - and returned my Rail 9.9.
I don't think there was anything particularly bad about it... I just wanted less assistance and to use my legs more - so I have bought a Levo SL instead.

A great bike, and great fun to ride. I just felt that it was giving me too much help on EMTB mode. Well put together and solid feeling. Bosch motor is torquey and powerful - and not too noisy when pedalling. Battery integration into the frame works really well, and is simple to remove.

Negatives:

• Several chips on the bike before I'd even got the Invisiframe on - straight from the box. Had I not returned it, the shop were going to replace the whole bike for me! The TREK logo stickers were rough and badly cut on the non battery side.
• Even the range topping 9.9 weighs over 22kg when the pedals are on. A lot of weight to lift on the bike rack, or to try and bunny hop. Trek weigh and supply the bike tubeless... so you can't automatically take 400g off the advertised weight for removing tubes!
• LOTS of pedal strikes for me. The same route on the Levo SL had barely any. I was considering shortening the cranks 10mm.
• The KIOX display was mounted in one of the best places I've seen it - however was still awkward and unsightly. For me, Spesh have this sorted with a few LED's on the top tube.
• Bosch motor is really clattery when coming down fast root / rocky sections when not pedalling.
• Difficult to maintain 16+mph on flat ground due to weight / motor drag, and riding without assistance is VERY hard work.
• Clutching at straws... but the bottle cage mount position mean you'll struggle to fit a full size bottle without it rubbing the frame.

You mention the motor being clattery mine has been good even on very very rough terrain. As for difficulty maintaining 16+mph and without axsistance well being honest ive been out on mine without switching the motor on and going up hills etc and no real issue.

 

[p3eps]

You mention the motor being clattery mine has been good even on very very rough terrain. As for difficulty maintaining 16+mph and without axsistance well being honest ive been out on mine without switching the motor on and going up hills etc and no real issue.

Good for you!
Maybe you're fitter than me? Maybe you have time to get out on your bike for more than a couple of hours a week?
I cycled mine round the streets for a while without the motor on, and it was ok. On the trail, switching from EMTB to OFF just felt like a struggle. I could have fought my way to the top if the battery had been dead - but I just switched back to EMTB and flew up the hill instead!

There's a video on here somewhere from a Spanish guy demonstrating the clattering on the Rail 9.9... and that's exactly what mine sounded like.
I'm not the only one who has noticed it... but maybe it's something that's been fixed in later models? Lots of reviews of the Bosch Gen4 motor say exactly the same thing. Come down a rocky or rooty section fast when not pedalling and you get a noise that sounds like the chain slapping off the stays.

 

[Bomble]

I demo’d an Orbea with the gen 4 in a while ago and that made the clattering noise. It was annoying but wouldn’t put me off buying a bike. I actually ended up buying a levo that was lovely and quiet but kept breaking down, hence looking at the Trek?

 

[Paul Mac]

I demo’d an Orbea with the gen 4 in a while ago and that made the clattering noise. It was annoying but wouldn’t put me off buying a bike. I actually ended up buying a levo that was lovely and quiet but kept breaking down, hence looking at the Trek?

I've ridden about 250mls on the Trek now, for my riding on balance I prefer it to the Levo, get a demo on one.
Don't know where you are but Milton Keynes Trek store have demos

 

[Bomble]

Got a couple of local dealers with demos, just waiting for some free time and weather

 

[JacobC1983]

Would you mind describing the clatter you hear with the Rail or would you point me to a vid of it? I am thinking of buying a Rail 9.7 but am trying to decide if the annoyance of the clatter is a deal breaker. These type of things tend to drive me nuts

Thanks!

 

[Orangie]

It’s a non issue as far as I’m concerned. Less than a cable rattle . People would complain about anything