Has having an Ebb changed your view on having a battery car?


Has buying an Ebb changed your view on having a battery car?

  • Yes and I’m more likely to buy one.

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • No. The technology and/or infrastructure isn’t there yet.

    Votes: 21 47.7%
  • No because of cost.

    Votes: 11 25.0%
  • I had the car before the bike!

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • No. Other reason listed below in my comments.

    Votes: 4 9.1%

  • Total voters
    44

R120

Moderator
Patreon
Apr 13, 2018
7,154
373
Surrey
For me the infrastructure isn't there yet, but my wife's next car will be electric as most of her journeys are local. I'm not such a fan of Tesla's, I know quite a few people who have them, and none have been problem free which put me off the Brand, but I had a spin in a client of mines Polestar recently and really liked it, and the boot looked like it could take an EMTB pretty easily with the seats down.
 

Rahr85

Active member
Subscriber
Sep 6, 2020
258
103
nottingham
Ride
Whyte e-180 RS
For day to day commuting i'd have one straight away. But:
1) No garage to safely charge it
2) No crazy income to pay for it

To be the only household car the range issues would bother me. Sure it is possible for me to drive the 8 hours up to see family with a stop along the way at a supercharger but then that dictates my route and stop points, and when i am at the other end there are no means for me to charge the car. For a lot of people the convenience of just filling up for 5 mins whenever it is required is massive. Think about how frustrating it is when there is a queue for the petrol station, imagine what it is like when the car takes 1h+ to charge.
 

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
7,927
443
Brittany, France
Ride
Kenevo 1.3
We have a long country (about 1200km) and all the mountains and good fly fishing/skiing places are up north. And in the winter time when it's cold (minus 20-35C) the capacity of the range drops about 30-40 %. Tested here.

But nothing against e-cars, just waiting better range and charging infrastructure.
The latest models are fitted with a heat pump for heating rather than a traditional electric heater. They also now have heat scavenging, so the battery is heated whilst charging and this heat is converted back into power/vehicle heat as required.
 

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
7,927
443
Brittany, France
Ride
Kenevo 1.3
For me the infrastructure isn't there yet, but my wife's next car will be electric as most of her journeys are local. I'm not such a fan of Tesla's, I know quite a few people who have them, and none have been problem free which put me off the Brand, but I had a spin in a client of mines Polestar recently and really liked it, and the boot looked like it could take an EMTB pretty easily with the seats down.
Just for you :

pole.jpeg


 

PAC

New Member
Subscriber
Feb 7, 2021
14
43
Billings, Montana, USA
Two years and 25k miles on my Tesla Model 3 Performance. Best car I've owned/driven in 50 years of driving. You couldn't pay me to go back to an ICE machine. No one in the family wants to drive our other cars any longer. The Tesla is a constantly updated/improved computer on wheels. And the fastest thing on the streets. I have a Cybertruck on order. Infrastructure is way down the road these days and marching on. Even here in rural Montana, USA. And charging is fast and overall cheap. I spend 1/2 to 1/4 what I spent on gas, depending on where I charge. For maintenance, I once had to add windshield washer fluid. And rotate the tires now and again. That's about all the trouble or maintenance the vast majority of owners have had. And we talk internationally about details, just like on this site. The Model 3 and the Y are no more expensive than other cars and the Cybertruck less than comparable trucks. Seems odd to have people who would pay 5k-14k for a bicycle think a Tesla is expensive.
 
Last edited:

Mcharza

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
Aug 10, 2018
1,431
373
Helsinki, Finland
Ride
Kenovo and Evo
The latest models are fitted with a heat pump for heating rather than a traditional electric heater. They also now have heat scavenging, so the battery is heated whilst charging and this heat is converted back into power/vehicle heat as required.
So some kind of perpetual motion machine? ;)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Zimmerframe

apac

E*POWAH Master
Subscriber
Aug 14, 2019
627
233
S.Wales
Ride
battery powered
Petrol car 25% efficient. Put in £1 of fuel and only 25 pence gets to the wheels. Something got to give. 😭
 
  • Like
Reactions: grimmprincess

michael.kozera

New Member
Feb 3, 2021
25
13
calgary
I've had a Tesla model 3 for a year now.
Best car I've ever owned, and that includes BMW and Mercedes cars I have had.
That does have a caveat of you have a home charger though.
The infrastructure for a Tesla is superb and people's preconceptions of having to have a 500 range on one charge are unfounded.
our subaru crosstrek has a 65L tank which we can over fill to aprox 80L. we regularly get 5-6L/100km on the highway. which nets us over 1500kms of range.

our veloster turbo also regularly gets over 1000kms of range on the highway. and my old civic ... agian over 1200 kms.

call me and my wife spoiled, but we are so used to driving 1000-1500kms or more on one tank that untill electric cars can net at least 1000kms on a charge then no thankyou.

hard pass......... and this is coming from someone that has 6 solar panels on his roof.

also. did i mention recharge time.

again. hard pass.
 

michael.kozera

New Member
Feb 3, 2021
25
13
calgary
another thing to consider too is, for people that live in northern climates. winter cold has a significant range penalty for electric cars.

my gasoline car gets say 1000kms in the summer and that drops in the winter to maybe 800kms ( winter tires, more ideling, denser air/ air resistance).

meanwhile one of my friends has had his tesla for 2 winters so far and he HATES the fact that in the summer he gets around 600kms. but in the winter that can drop to as low as 200kms of range. mainly becuase it takes alot and I mean like ALOT of energy to heat the cabin continuously when it's -25c or colder outside. while gasoline cars just use the waste heat from the engine in the radiator to heat the cabin.

and of course the other losses associated with cold weather and batteries.

for this reason I do truely belive hybrids will be the future for the next 50 year. at least.
 

Paul Mac

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Jul 9, 2018
695
233
Uk
Ride
Levo
another thing to consider too is, for people that live in northern climates. winter cold has a significant range penalty for electric cars.

my gasoline car gets say 1000kms in the summer and that drops in the winter to maybe 800kms ( winter tires, more ideling, denser air/ air resistance).

meanwhile one of my friends has had his tesla for 2 winters so far and he HATES the fact that in the summer he gets around 600kms. but in the winter that can drop to as low as 200kms of range. mainly becuase it takes alot and I mean like ALOT of energy to heat the cabin continuously when it's -25c or colder outside. while gasoline cars just use the waste heat from the engine in the radiator to heat the cabin.

and of course the other losses associated with cold weather and batteries.

for this reason I do truely belive hybrids will be the future for the next 50 year. at least.
I can acknowledge your observations and they are indeed true for your situation.
So obviously one type of vehicle can not be perfect for everyone due to where they live in the world.
I can only speak from my perspective living in the UK.
I rarely would drive more than 200 miles without stopping for a coffee or toilet break even when I had an ice vehicle.
The Tesla chargers can put about 100 miles of charge in the car in about 10 minutes, so it's always ready before me.
In the UK (south) it rarely gets below -5 c in winter so my range this year went down about 20% in winter which still posed no issues.
Also on the colder days it was nice getting into pre warmed cabin, which you can set.
To boot, on my current electricity tariff it costs about £2.50 to fill the car up, its always full when I get up in the morning and I haven't been to a petrol station in over a year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flatslide and R120

Tooks

Active member
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2020
174
123
Lincs UK
Ride
Focus Jam2 6.7
About 3 months ago I changed my e-Golf for an ID.3, and it’s the best EV I’ve had to date. I purchased a BMW i3 Rex back in 2014, followed that with a GTE (a hybrid) then the e-Golf and now the ID.3.

It’s early days still, the public charging infrastructure is still building, but it’s massively better than it was even 2 years ago, and if you’ve got access to home or workplace charging then it’s a very workable solution for most people with normal travel requirements.

I wouldn’t be keen to go back to an ICE car now, and I say that as a bit of a petrol head. Maybe it’s an age thing?!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Mac

aarfeldt

E*POWAH Master
Subscriber
May 25, 2019
359
203
Denmark, Danstrup
Ride
Jam2 + TurboLevo2020
Having 2 eMTBs did not change anything for me.
But changing my motorcycle to electric changed my world.

So...we changed one car (Toyota IQ) to a new Honda E.....best car ever.
It even has a 1500w 230volt outlet, so I can charge my bike from it :)

I've set up a home charger, and we charge at night, when the electricity is cheapest.
 

stiv674

E*POWAH Elite
Subscriber
Mar 4, 2019
651
253
Wiltshire
Ride
Focus Jam2 Factory
I'd like an electric van but the choice is very limited. Seems like an ideal base for a long range electric vehicle.
 

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
7,927
443
Brittany, France
Ride
Kenevo 1.3
I'm also waiting for the technology that allows an ecar to double as a home battery bank. It sh1ts me having $1000 worth of emtb lithium sitting in the shed that can't be used for other purposes.
Maybe on the next model ..

For a lot of people the convenience of just filling up for 5 mins whenever it is required is massive. Think about how frustrating it is when there is a queue for the petrol station, imagine what it is like when the car takes 1h+ to charge.
100km in 5 minutes..... getting there ... Go Rimac !

 

Pigin

Active member
Subscriber
Jul 7, 2020
274
133
Saddleworth
Ride
Orbea Wild FS
That Ioniq looks good and no doubt it is but I'm struggling to see £40K in it. I wonder how big the cliff is that they fall off with second hand values in general and then with newer tech getting ever closer.

I will declare my hand now as the OP. If EV manufacturers really believed that EV was the future and not just the current bandwagon then surely they wouldn't feel the need to recoup every last penny on set up. Thats the only reason I can see why they are so expensive. Musk blabs about the £25k model 3, we are still waiting despite Tesla being very popular. How much "in profit" does Tesla need to be before such a thing. The books will no doubt look horrendous but they have got to be so asset rich that I think its not so much about saving the planet but making biggly bucks.

Lots of other manufacturers already had a lot of the infrastructure but we hear sob stories about how much it is to retool. I suggest just a little bit more than bringing a new range to market which they happily do more often than I have hot dinners.

Dont get me wrong, I love EV's, I hate the current cost, the inevitability that I will get "punished" for being an earlyish adopter, the unknown affect on secondhand values, the unknown cost of battery replacement but most of all I hate the fact that I can't justify buying one just yet.

Thanks to those who have taken part, I have found the replies interesting, I've enjoyed the real reports and views from different parts of the world and I hope folks continue to post and take part in the mini survey.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmerframe

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
7,927
443
Brittany, France
Ride
Kenevo 1.3
If EV manufacturers really believed that EV was the future and not just the current bandwagon then surely they wouldn't feel the need to recoup every last penny on set up.
One example :


Or several starting from £11,000 ish .. though it might not be everyone's taste :

 

Paul Mac

E*POWAH Master
Patreon
Jul 9, 2018
695
233
Uk
Ride
Levo
That Ioniq looks good and no doubt it is but I'm struggling to see £40K in it. I wonder how big the cliff is that they fall off with second hand values in general and then with newer tech getting ever closer.

I will declare my hand now as the OP. If EV manufacturers really believed that EV was the future and not just the current bandwagon then surely they wouldn't feel the need to recoup every last penny on set up. Thats the only reason I can see why they are so expensive. Musk blabs about the £25k model 3, we are still waiting despite Tesla being very popular. How much "in profit" does Tesla need to be before such a thing. The books will no doubt look horrendous but they have got to be so asset rich that I think its not so much about saving the planet but making biggly bucks.

Lots of other manufacturers already had a lot of the infrastructure but we hear sob stories about how much it is to retool. I suggest just a little bit more than bringing a new range to market which they happily do more often than I have hot dinners.

Dont get me wrong, I love EV's, I hate the current cost, the inevitability that I will get "punished" for being an earlyish adopter, the unknown affect on secondhand values, the unknown cost of battery replacement but most of all I hate the fact that I can't justify buying one just yet.

Thanks to those who have taken part, I have found the replies interesting, I've enjoyed the real reports and views from different parts of the world and I hope folks continue to post and take part in the mini survey.
EVs are like ebikes, there will never be an ideal time to purchase one, they will continue to evolve for decades.
All the depreciation is currently being done by ICE vehicles.
I purchased my new BMW for £43000 three years ago. I was given £14000 trade in!
Never again.
 

Pyr0

Well-known member
Subscriber
Sep 22, 2019
322
193
Wirral, UK
Ride
2020 Levo Expert
HAS HAVING AN EBB CHANGED YOUR VIEW ON HAVING A BATTERY CAR?
No, because I don't drive
Even if I could, I don't have a garage or a driveway to park on and I couldn't charge a car in my living room :p
 

Pigin

Active member
Subscriber
Jul 7, 2020
274
133
Saddleworth
Ride
Orbea Wild FS
Thanks @Zimmerframe and @Paul Mac .

Zimm I think you are right about not everybody's taste. :sick: However I do get the small car , small journey thing. For me my car has to have a certain level of trim and I know I get spanked for it on price.

Paul, I just hope that your EV doesn't go the same way in depreciation I believe that the only known with it is that you will always get low-balled on a trade in with every excuse under the sun as why your car is worth nothing and theirs is worth the kings ransom.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Paul Mac

jerry

Member
Dec 22, 2018
176
88
Belgium
Ride
KTM Kapoho 271
Two years and 25k miles on my Tesla Model 3 Performance. Best car I've owned/driven in 50 years of driving. You couldn't pay me to go back to an ICE machine. No one in the family wants to drive our other cars any longer. The Tesla is a constantly updated/improved computer on wheels. And the fastest thing on the streets. I have a Cybertruck on order. Infrastructure is way down the road these days and marching on. Even here in rural Montana, USA. And charging is fast and overall cheap. I spend 1/2 to 1/4 what I spent on gas, depending on where I charge. For maintenance, I once had to add windshield washer fluid. And rotate the tires now and again. That's about all the trouble or maintenance the vast majority of owners have had. And we talk internationally about details, just like on this site. The Model 3 and the Y are no more expensive than other cars and the Cybertruck less than comparable trucks. Seems odd to have people who would pay 5k-14k for a bicycle think a Tesla is expensive.
fanboy alert!!!!!
 

jerry

Member
Dec 22, 2018
176
88
Belgium
Ride
KTM Kapoho 271
Don't be absurd..........use facts, not borrowed beliefs.............
That is, by definition, why I'm calling your post a fanboy alert! There are all too many illustrations in your fanpraise that, perhaps, hold true for you specifically, but don't for 90% of other people (Teslas being cheaper? Oh please - they are not (FACT!) Charging being cheaper? it's not! (we pay EUR 0,4/Kw, for electricity and charging on a public charger will cost pretty much as much as a regular gas tank (FACT). Infrastructure is far, FAR from being everywhere (FACT). Etc.
 

Tubby G

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2020
355
163
North Yorkshire
Ride
Haibike AllMtn 4
Now then ...

I drive a company car and last year it was time to order my next model. In the UK there is a huge incentive to drive electric cars as the BIK (benefit in kind) tax rate for 20/21 on electric cars is 0%, 1% for 21/22 and 2% 22/23. Basically you pay zero or very little tax for driving an electric company car

Originally had my eyes on the Model 3, but then was tempted by the Polestar 2 or XC40 Recharge. Range isn’t an issue. Yes I drive 30-40k miles per annum (pre Covid) but also regularly stop at cafes between meetings to catch up on emails etc, so charging the car would become a destination to also work / have lunch, and you’d only charge enough to get you home and then a full charge overnight

Our company leases vehicles, and we soon found out that the issue with electric cars is that if you’re on a high annual mileage and a three year lease, basically the residual value is awful as you’re handing a car back to the lease company with 120k miles on, batteries out of warranty, and who would want to buy a 3 year old Tesla where the batteries could potentially need replacing which could cost well over £15k to replace

So, ended up ordering another petrol hybrid car as the BIK rate is still far better than the huge amount you now have to pay for diesels, but the company suffer as real world mpg for hybrids is only a round 35-40 mpg compared to typically 50-55 MPG for diesels

To answer the original question about whether having an eeb has changed my view on wanting an electric car, no it hasn’t, but as lithium battery technology in general is becoming better by the day I now try and buy ‘cordless’ wherever I can. Can’t wait to get my battery lawnmower out soon :D