YT Decoy first ride review: A brilliant ebike with outstanding performance

[R120]

One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

 

[Kangr]

I was out with a 2019 Levo and 2 Shimano motored bikes a couple of weeks ago.

The Levo was louder than I was expecting but the Shimanos both made more noise than my Bosch!

There did seem to be a thing that when both shimano motors were next to each other that there was a certain resonance happening making them even louder.

I do like the sound of the shimano, Its my favourite motor. (though Jetsetdeimos new levo felt really nice)

 

[James_MTB]

One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

I believe the Shimano battery isn't using tesla cells like YT and Specialized.

 

[Fivetones]

I don’t think the YT and Specialized (only 700) are literally running Tesla cells but I’m willing to be corrected.

 

[stiv674]

I don't think Tesla actually make their own cells, I thought they were in partnership with Panasonic...

 

[Fivetones]

Yes, the Tesla Gigafactories are a joint venture.

 

[stiv674]

Yes, the Tesla Gigafactories are a joint venture.

Thought so, I expect Shimano are still using the older 18650 size whereas YT and new Specialized are using the 21700...

 

[Alan]

Is this a Levo killer? But looking amazing

It may be a Kenevo and Haibike Nduro killer, Levo is more of a trail bike. Decoy was released the day after I ordered my Xduro Nduro, I'd for sure return it if I didn't get a super good deal on my Nduro. My brother ordered a Decoy last week, the base model is $5500 USD, I have to say that is a great deal compared with other ebikes out there, but I wish YT will release a trail version in the future, they seemed to got everything dialed in.

 

[Fivetones]

One of the advantages of Shimano are their scale and compatibility between ranges. Theoretically they could come up with a DU-E9000 motor (90nm or lighter etc) and a new BT-E9020 (based on higher density cells) and it slot into an older bike as an upgrade.

There’s also the over the air software updates as others have mentioned too.

 

[Nasty Nick]

So I got triple confirmation from YT USA, the Pro model 36 fork has a standard GRIP damper. They verified by looking at a bike in the box they’re shipping to a customer. I’ll be keeping my order for the base model as is.

 

[comtn]

So I got triple confirmation from YT USA, the Pro model 36 fork has a standard GRIP damper. They verified by looking at a bike in the box they’re shipping to a customer. I’ll be keeping my order for the base model as is.

Can you expand on this a bit. Does this meant the fork is inferior to the factory by a long shot? I assumed it was just the coating that was the difference.

 

[Nasty Nick]

Can you expand on this a bit. Does this meant the fork is inferior to the factory by a long shot? I assumed it was just the coating that was the difference.

I don’t have any first hand experience with the new fox stuff. But the video I linked below is awesome and takes a deep dive into the engineering inside the GRIP 2. It is a very neat damper, both sofiaticated and simple. It’s super easy to tune and service yourself. The GRIP damper is much more simple and is the basic offering from Fox. I think it uses less shims (1-3 vs 10-14) in all the valves, so more rudimentary and more difficult to tune. I know it is missing several of the adjusters including the progressive high speed rebound adjustment shims, which is a super unique feature and is the only damper that allows for effective independent hsr adjustnent externally. The reviews on the GRIP 2 are fantastic, both by real riders rand bike publications. At the end of the day the regular GRIP damper is probably fine, but it’s a big bait and switch from either YT or Fox oem. Cause all other performance forks are, as you say, like the factory with different coatings (and aluminum material used in the uppers). For the price I would expect GRIP 2.

I’m happy to have the Yari chassis and a mule for an aftermarket damper.

 

[comtn]

I don’t have any first hand experience with the new fox stuff. But the video I linked below is awesome and takes a deep dive into the engineering inside the GRIP 2. It is a very neat damper, both sofiaticated and simple. It’s super easy to tune and service yourself. The GRIP damper is much more simple and is the basic offering from Fox. I think it uses less shims (1-3 vs 10-14) in all the valves, so more rudimentary and more difficult to tune. I know it is missing several of the adjusters including the progressive high speed rebound adjustment shims, which is a super unique feature and is the only damper that allows for effective independent hsr adjustnent externally. The reviews on the GRIP 2 are fantastic, both by real riders rand bike publications. At the end of the day the regular GRIP damper is probably fine, but it’s a big bait and switch from either YT or Fox oem. Cause all other performance forks are, as you say, like the factory with different coatings (and aluminum material used in the uppers). For the price I would expect GRIP 2.

I’m happy to have the Yari chassis and a mule for an aftermarket damper.

Ok thanks. Ohlins and specialized were playing games like that on 2018 forks. Unless you really read the fine print you thought you were getting the $1200 fork offered direct from ohlins. Turns out it was a one off for specialized that was far less effective.

 

[Mabman]

One of the most interesting things on the YT is the battery, as it seems form early reports that it gets better range than the standard Shimano ones.

My bike is derestricted but I struggle to get more than 25 miles out of it, on recent rides in an even mix of TRAIL and ECO I am getting about 22miles and 3000 ft of elevation around Surrey Hills, before the battery goes red.

Follow up to my earlier post with a little more math that might help explain?

Stock Shimano battery is a 10s4p which is 10 in series and 4 parallel, 40 18650 cells total, which gives you a 36v (sic) system that with a 3500mAh cell will yield a 504wh battery: 36 x 3.5 = 126 (s) x 4 (p) = 504. If you used the highest known 18650 3900mAh cell you would have a 560wh battery in the stock form. So the possibility here is to in the future rebuild stock batteries with higher mAh cells and gain wh's in the process. I foresee lots of that in the future as warranties go by the wayside and batteries lose their oomph after lots of charge cycles. In fact it would be advantageous to rebuild a battery with fresh cells over buy a NOS one off the shelf that who knows how long it has been on....

The YT battery, and I am just doing some supposition here as I am not privy to the exact kind of cells it uses and although they may be Tesla "type" as they are leaders in 2170 technology they aren't Tesla/Panasonics as they can hardly produce enough for their own use. Samsung, LG, Sony, and all the others are in on the new 2170 program but for sure whatever they are using, in order for it to be a 540wh battery, they are rating at 5000mAh or 1500mAh more than the 18650 top dog.

OK, back to the math.

So the YT battery is a 10s3p 30 cells total @ 36 x 5 = 180 (s) x 3 (p) = 540. Their upcoming 700wh battery will just add another 10 cells to make it a 10s4p.

As I said in my last post the effect of having the extra 1500mAh per cell is two fold. It allows for a higher discharge rate due to the higher Amp rating so it will put out more power upon demand or longer run time if equal to the demand on a lesser mAh battery. That is a pretty simplified version.....

Also a higher Amp battery will allow for higher charge rates and that is why Haibike is advertising 10A charge rate for the Flyon although you wouldn't want to do that on a regular basis as it would degrade the battery exponentially over a more standard 4A charge. However once in awhile topping off fast over lunch isn't a bad prospect.

So that is why the YT battery is getting better range. A) because it has 40wh more capacity and B) because of it's higher Amp rating and discharge of power more efficiently.

I keep coming back to the looks of the YT and I do agree that they pretty much nailed it first try. It's a handsome bike with all the right features in the right order. Although some might find fault with the type of features and the order they are in luckily there are ways to tweak them to the end users content.

 

[Jedipip]

Ok thanks. Ohlins and specialized were playing games like that on 2018 forks. Unless you really read the fine print you thought you were getting the $1200 fork offered direct from ohlins. Turns out it was a one off for specialized that was far less effective.

From YT Customer Services yesterday....for my order:

Apr 4, 08:15 CEST
Hello Phillip,

these are the specs of the fork:

2019, 36, A, FLOAT, 29in, P-SE E-Bike+, 160, Grip 2, HSC, SC, HSR, LSR, Matte Blk, PMS-642_Gloss/PMS-2195_Gloss Logo, 15QRx110, 1.5 T, 44mm Rake, OE, +2VS

I hope this is helpful to you.
Beste Grüße / Best regards / Cordialement

 

[Nasty Nick]

I hope YT are correct and you get the package you’re expecting. Maybe there’s a different spec for EU bs US?

 

[Mcharza]

It may be a Kenevo and Haibike Nduro killer, Levo is more of a trail bike. Decoy was released the day after I ordered my Xduro Nduro, I'd for sure return it if I didn't get a super good deal on my Nduro. My brother ordered a Decoy last week, the base model is $5500 USD, I have to say that is a great deal compared with other ebikes out there, but I wish YT will release a trail version in the future, they seemed to got everything dialed in.

But Kenovo has still more travel, so in my opinion it's more closed to Levo.

 

[Jedipip]

I hope YTis correct and you get the package you’re expecting. Maybe there’s a different spec for EU bs US?

Nick
It’s not the first YT I’ve had, I've been waiting and have been so close to pressing the button on a Kenevo, but held out and I’m looking forward to this experience. I’ve never been let down with the warranty, support, response times or specification from YT, I resisted CF Pro Race as carbon wheels and Di2 in the UK winter and on the trails I ride does not bode well.

It’s in writing......so let’s see what happens when it arrives.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Nick
It’s not the first YT I’ve had, I've been waiting and have been so close to pressing the button on a Kenevo, but held out and I’m looking forward to this experience. I’ve never been let down with the warranty, support, response times or specification from YT, I resisted CF Pro Race as carbon wheels and Di2 in the UK winter and on the trails I ride does not bode well.

It’s in writing......so let’s see what happens when it arrives.

Just been looking at some of my footage. This is the Pro and it looks like the Grip 2...

 

[Jedipip]

You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times - cheers Rob

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times - cheers Rob

Good times indeed! The Pro seems like the best bang for buck, great suspension on that bike...

 

[Trail Doug]

I know a certain UK battery specialist who has been re-celling high end mtb lighting packs for over a decade as a part of his business is chomping at the bit waiting for ebike batteries to need repacking/upgrading.

 

[Nasty Nick]

You nailed it, nice find! So it looks like the launch pics are Grip and customer/demo bikes run the lovely Grip 2. Good times - cheers Rob

YT USA did tell me like three times the pro comes with a grip 1, they even explained its an ebike specific thing blah blah and said they looked at a bike that was ready for delivery to a customer(poor bastard). I won’t mention fox dampers again, until we see what shows up.

 

[Nasty Nick]

Just been looking at some of my footage.
View attachment 12646

Feel free to keep dropping pics. This bike is sexy as hell.

 

[Jedipip]

YT USA did tell me like three times the pro comes with a grip 1, they even explained its an ebike specific thing blah blah and said they looked at a bike that was ready for delivery to a customer(poor bastard). I won’t mention fox dampers again, until we see what shows up.

Lol Nick, let’s hope the poor bastard isn’t on the forum and let’s hope Rob’s photos are the facts we want.

I’ll look forward to seeing some pics from customer bikes and I’ll post a pic up when mine arrives. Or the dispute resolution that I get in to ?

 

[Jedipip]

I know a certain UK battery specialist who has been re-celling high end mtb lighting packs for over a decade as a part of his business is chomping at the bit waiting for ebike batteries to need repacking/upgrading.

Quite a few Spesh batteries now out of warranty. Although Spesh are exceptionally nice to customers with warranty. I imagine all the worry some future e-bike owners have about batteries will all become a minor issue once the independent guys start rebuilding batteries. Be good to hear from one or two of them about what they can do, especially against a £1000 price tag for the current 700wh Spesh battery.

 

[Doomanic]

I know a certain UK battery specialist

I don't. Who are you talking about?

 

[Donnie797]

I really like the YT decoy, it's an amazing bike with top components!
But i don't like carbon... so nothing for me, i stick with my lovely Kenevo. It survived a big jumping crash two weeks ago without any harm (my ribs, arm and hand not so much), whereas with a carbon bike i wouldn't feel save anymore.

Carbon on gravity-oriented bikes? I don't know... for the Pro's or if you replace your bike every 1-2 years that's fine... but if you like to ride your bike for longer... nah. But i know, it's controversial

 

[Gary]

sort of agree with you @Donnie797
but...
the areas that see the most rock strikes are under the downtube, BB area and stays
on the BASE Decoy the downtube is actually the armoured battery casing. The BB area is the bolt on E8000 motor WITH bashguard and the stays are Alu.
Kind of a hint as to which model interests me most ,)

Yes top tubes and the side of the downtube (and even the seat tube can take a battering in a crash too. I'm well aware of this. As are YT hence the knockblock headset - Which I really wouldn't want and unless the fork crown hits the downtube.
No bike of mine has levers in a position that can hit my top tube and I like to pull the odd X-up.
Not a deal breakier if it needs the knockblock to stop the crown contacting the battery, though
if not hopefully it can be replaced with a standard headset.

Were the front triangle alu I reckon the Decoy frame would be far too heavy for me to even consider.

My Capra is ridden exactly the same as my E-sommet and DH bikes and has held up well. full carbn front end and carbon seat stays. Alu chainstay and linkage.

It'd be crazy not to admit Carbon is less durable and that when it fails it does so in a completely different manner to alu but I can (just about) live with those facts. One of the worst things for me about Carbon is how easily it rubs away if scuffed. I've seen a mate's chainstay wear away completely and fail because of heel rub on a Carbon XC bike. this also means you need to be extra protective when transporting Carbon framed bikes and a PITA compared to Alu.
I recently made cardboard/garffer pedal booties to put on mine and my mates bikes pedals as a protective measure so as not to get pedal pin gouges on our carbon frames when transporting them all together in a mate's van.
He didn't GAF. but I do.

@Rob Hancill do you know if the fork crown (f wheel at 90deg) would clear the downtube/battery on the models you saw/rode/tested?

 

[magnus]

Love the way u put/out it, not easy to ballance the Commercial incitatements with true to experience eventual criticals. Big shout out to the aproach as an IRL average rider, largest chunk of the market is! Kept in mind, many off us out there are actually buying on rev/test, results, it means the world to many potential customers, stay true and keep that balance - Respect! Sorry for the abuse of the English language, im Swedsh!