Would you buy an Amflow PL over a Santa Cruz Vala R

[unclezz]

Hello,

To reply to the main question, here is my 'advice' :
- Buy the cheapest AMFLOW with 800 Wh battery
- Put a 38 / 170 mm fork
- Add a coil shock
- ENJOY the new EMTB benchmark, perfect combo of SL and FF assistance
- Taste the smoothest, supplest, smartest assist EVER

Looks ilke one of the best things to do.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

No from me, but it would depend on a few things if I were in someone else's shoes.

The amflow has on paper, what seems to be a more advanced emtb drive unit. I am biased because I have a bullit with the cx gen 5... but I've ridden both and I while the weight of the amflow is nice, I prefer the power delivery of the bosch unit and find it much easier to apply the power properly on loose terrain (pretty much all we have here in socal). The Amflow for sure has a better app with faster app development and has a better charging setup. but I digress, some people prioritize drive unit over all else. If you are one of those people and are willing to roll the dice on the first revision of a drive unit, then go for it. After my experience with fazua and TQ, I will never do that again. I will also never go consumer direct again on an ebike... Too many things go wrong and I want the support of an IBD in my corner to deal with the bicycle issues that pop up as well as the emtb drive unit issues that pop up.

The Vala is the superior bicycle, especially in XL/XXL sizes. The amflow has too little stack and a fixed rear center on all sizes. This impacts the L/XL/XXL variants more than the S/M variants. Also, the amflow uses a trunion shock mount with a yoke, which is something that is asking for trouble on many shock formats from a durability perspective. The amflow is also a very, very flexy frame. It immediately felt as flexy as my gen 1 orbea rise and at 6'2" and 180lbs at my aggression level, the frame is not stiff enough for the type of riding I will end up doing.

My last two ebikes were an orbea rise and a transition relay. I went back to Santa Cruz based on the frustrations of build quality on those frames and I am not disappointed. I am interested in the dji motor, but I would not buy an amflow to get it because it's middle of the road in terms of bicycle design. I would however, roll the dice on that motor in the form of a forbidden... at least then the risk of a gen 1 drive unit would be worth it because of the bicycle design going on with that bike.

 

[Reximus]

No from me, but it would depend on a few things if I were in someone else's shoes.

The amflow has on paper, what seems to be a more advanced emtb drive unit. I am biased because I have a bullit with the cx gen 5... but I've ridden both and I while the weight of the amflow is nice, I prefer the power delivery of the bosch unit and find it much easier to apply the power properly on loose terrain (pretty much all we have here in socal). The Amflow for sure has a better app with faster app development and has a better charging setup. but I digress, some people prioritize drive unit over all else. If you are one of those people and are willing to roll the dice on the first revision of a drive unit, then go for it. After my experience with fazua and TQ, I will never do that again. I will also never go consumer direct again on an ebike... Too many things go wrong and I want the support of an IBD in my corner to deal with the bicycle issues that pop up as well as the emtb drive unit issues that pop up.

The Vala is the superior bicycle, especially in XL/XXL sizes. The amflow has too little stack and a fixed rear center on all sizes. This impacts the L/XL/XXL variants more than the S/M variants. Also, the amflow uses a trunion shock mount with a yoke, which is something that is asking for trouble on many shock formats from a durability perspective. The amflow is also a very, very flexy frame. It immediately felt as flexy as my gen 1 orbea rise and at 6'2" and 180lbs at my aggression level, the frame is not stiff enough for the type of riding I will end up doing.

My last two ebikes were an orbea rise and a transition relay. I went back to Santa Cruz based on the frustrations of build quality on those frames and I am not disappointed. I am interested in the dji motor, but I would not buy an amflow to get it because it's middle of the road in terms of bicycle design. I would however, roll the dice on that motor in the form of a forbidden... at least then the risk of a gen 1 drive unit would be worth it because of the bicycle design going on with that bike.

How would you describe the difference between the Bosch and avinox in terms of power delivery - the amflow is measuring the wheel 42 times every rotation I believe ? Sounds like much finer resolution for modulation ?

I much prefer the Santa Cruz frame design and general build quality but the weight of the 800wh anflow battery compared to the smaller vala or bullit just makes it seem like a better deal..

 

[ebsocalmtb]

How would you describe the difference between the Bosch and avinox in terms of power delivery - the amflow is measuring the wheel 42 times every rotation I believe ? Sounds like much finer resolution for modulation ?

I much prefer the Santa Cruz frame design and general build quality but the weight of the 800wh anflow battery compared to the smaller vala or bullit just makes it seem like a better deal..

I just find that the bosch power delivery is more refined and easier to apply without breaking traction. This is obviously better in lower power modes on the dji, but the bosch power delivery in emtb is in my opinion, the most intuitive drive mode on the market today. I only got two quick rides on the amflow, so I didn't have the chance to mess with the app and the power profiles... but I also haven't had the need to do that on bosch bikes to get the most out of them.

I also ride an XL, and the amflow has a compounding problem of not enough stack, which means I have to raise up the front with spacers or bars, which shortens the reach and takes weight off the front and not long enough chainstays, which also takes weight off the front. Furthermore, over forking the amflow makes this problem worse by extending the front center, with a fixed rear center.

Everyone has their priorities and opinions... which is why I would never suggest buying a bike without a demo first and why I would take any online opinion with a grain of salt. For me, the drive unit is interesting and innovative... but the amflow bike is not even remotely interesting or innovative. I am an avid (obsessed may be a better description) cyclist first, and an ebike rider a distant 3rd or 4th. So my opinion is steeped in the position that the bicycle engineering is more important then the drive unit (provided reliability and enough power or range are there). I easily get more then enough range with my bullit and range extender that I am a danger to myself riding that bike at 8/10th's as the battery is running out. I do not need an 800wh battery built in... but some people are certain that they do.

Ride both, buy the one that resonates with you. Take time to understand the design issues that plague high end bicycle design and fabrication, otherwise make sure to stay patient when things aren't quite perfect. Or, pay the premium for support, warranty and then have a chip on your shoulder so you can be an overly demanding customer without feeling bad about it.

 

[luna87824]

Should be all worked out by Gen7 or so .

With access to the battery from both sides of the down tube!!

 

[OZ-E]

Nope

 

[Power1tobe]

Update. Motor failed after a pedal strike. Not a particularly huge strike but a big bang from inside and motor no more go. No report on what failed but motor was replaced although that took 2 weeks. Bike back in action only to have cutoff issues so back to the shop. The other bike with cutout issues seems to have been rectified. If appears battery and connection issues are quite common. Thoughts from some are that maybe these bikes should not be ridden offroad.

It would seem these bike are having battery / battery seating issues, been reported multiple times. The issue has been either the battery or has required a full system reset to resolve.